In my 2019 M3 with USS, this update is nice, but not a whole lot to ho ho ho about. The extra red mark to indicate blindspot issues is nice. I definitely like being able to see alternate routes without having to cancel the trip and start again. But beyond that, nothing to write home about. Am I missing something?
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2023 S/W Holiday Update
It means that something is tracking your location. Be that someone using the Tesla app or a service like TeslaFi.
zoomer0056
Active Member
Nope, unless you're onto screaming goats and light show ... that's it. Some however, got a lump of coal. I've read screens going blank, FSD/EAP being bricked. It seems that most of those having problems, PITA as it is, have figured it out one way or another. But a couple have older cars that the update did not work on with no resolution.
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Tha_Ape
Active Member
AP is fine in nice weather, but was WAY too cautious in light to medium rain. It slowed down to 60 in a 70 with semis rolling up fast behind me. It's outright dangerous. I get being cautious, and I can even let that slide on AP...
But... it also applies to TACC(!!). It literally makes it unusable in rain and I don't use that term lightly.
Example, I'm in the left lane, passing a truck in light rain. There's water on the ground so the truck's producing a spray. TACC at 80, truck going 70. I pull up along side, get into the spray and the car slows down, keeping me in the spray and in the truck's blind spot to boot. I ended up having to over ride TACC a few times and stopped using AP because it would suddenly change speeds with slight variations in rain and give you a pop quiz on your reaction time.
The real kicker is that it slows down likely because it can't see through rain... which is part of the reason I opted for a car with radar. Sadly they turned it off because "sensor fusion is too hard". How about when vision degrades, use radar, otherwise use vision?
/rant.
(EDIT: That rant is from a 15hr trip with 7hrs of it in the rain)
Rest of the update is good, but it's much more impressive on the newer cars that can do the park assist.
But... it also applies to TACC(!!). It literally makes it unusable in rain and I don't use that term lightly.
Example, I'm in the left lane, passing a truck in light rain. There's water on the ground so the truck's producing a spray. TACC at 80, truck going 70. I pull up along side, get into the spray and the car slows down, keeping me in the spray and in the truck's blind spot to boot. I ended up having to over ride TACC a few times and stopped using AP because it would suddenly change speeds with slight variations in rain and give you a pop quiz on your reaction time.
The real kicker is that it slows down likely because it can't see through rain... which is part of the reason I opted for a car with radar. Sadly they turned it off because "sensor fusion is too hard". How about when vision degrades, use radar, otherwise use vision?
/rant.
(EDIT: That rant is from a 15hr trip with 7hrs of it in the rain)
Rest of the update is good, but it's much more impressive on the newer cars that can do the park assist.
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Hmmm. No I do think they use google for routing to some degree. There are multiple, specific routing errors in my local area that google maps and google maps alone makes. Hop in the Tesla, and it also makes these same routing errors. Apple Maps, Waze (which is interesting since they are owned by google), and every other app do not create these issues. They’re only replicated on Google maps.
It’s always been my understanding that Tesla uses Google for mapping and navigation. In all respects. That seems to jive with your experience, and it does with mine as well.
For a couple years, I’ve been saying on these forums that Tesla needs to have an option in their navigation to “prefer autopilot routes”. When checked, this preference would prioritize roads that are amenable to autopilot, versus those with enormous amounts of traffic, lights, and other obstacles that make autopilot less, or completely unusable.
I have a 2 hour drive that I frequently take where Tesla navigation, and Google as well, insist on dragging me through the absolute worst drive into and then out of Boston. Instead, I drive right out of Boston and then go around the city. It takes an extra six minutes and a few extra miles on my 2 Hour drive. But it’s the difference between 20 traffic lights and driving through the worst part of Boston (not so affectionately known as, “Methadone Mile”, packed with traffic lights, homelessness, and otherwise terrible driving), versus sitting back and relaxing down a straightaway highway with about four lights until I get to the interstate.
The fact that they don’t have this as an option, I think shows that they really have less control over their mapping and nav than some people here think. Just my guess on this.
Nope. Tesla only uses Google for the satellite view. They originally used NavTech for navigation, but then rolled their own based on the open source Valhalla engine which uses OpenStreetMap data. Of course, Tesla rolls their own map data as well, which seems to come from a combination of TomTom and OpenStreetMap maps and who knows what else.
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KArnold
Active Member
A simple "shortest" v. "quickest" (which the car uses for all routes) would be a welcome addition. For short errand running I'd prefer to not get on the highway only to double back a mile which the car insists on, but it might be a few seconds quicker. I'm rarely rushing or going fast on short rides. The constant alternative routes is helpful but even with that it rarely allows my preferred route. Interestingly Google maps does offer my preference as an alternative.
I'm still curious when/how lane choice is determined in suburban settings. I'm not sure Google even offers a preference. I've seen Tesla insist on the right lane "to follow route" even with a scheduled left turn in 200 feet, which it tries to do at the last minute.
So so many bugs to fix. Wonder when they will figure out the inevitable crowd sourcing model? Essentially that's what Dojo is supposed to do but I'm not sure lane choice is part of that training. Not soon, I'm sure.
I'm still curious when/how lane choice is determined in suburban settings. I'm not sure Google even offers a preference. I've seen Tesla insist on the right lane "to follow route" even with a scheduled left turn in 200 feet, which it tries to do at the last minute.
So so many bugs to fix. Wonder when they will figure out the inevitable crowd sourcing model? Essentially that's what Dojo is supposed to do but I'm not sure lane choice is part of that training. Not soon, I'm sure.
Transformer
Do the math. Save the world. — Mark Leon
Try adding a waypoint to work around this problem. That's more manual than your general request to “prefer autopilot routes” but it should work today, even from the phone app.
You're probably right about less control over mapping and nav, but it's also possible they just haven't yet prioritized that development and testing work. The mapping data must have traffic light info in at least some regions, so the routing software could use that even if it doesn't know about stop signs and other obstacles.
Google Maps (at least on mobile) has settings to "Prefer fuel-efficient routes" and Engine type "Electric". So if Tesla is using Google Maps for routing, it'd be easy to provide an option and really easy to just always use these choices.
In most cases, the quickest route is likely to be one that is more autopilot friendly than one using more city streets. There's always exceptions, of course, especially when there's traffic issues on an interstate.
In cases where a person makes a frequent trip, and has a preferred route, then the waypoint suggestion is certainly a good workaround. I frequently do this.
Yes, I thought of this as well. Unfortunately, there is a huge downside to it. The Tesla navigation does not calculate traffic after the waypoint. Basically, it assumes there is no traffic until you hit the waypoint, and then it calculates whatever traffic there is. That makes it a really dangerous guessing game. It’s unfortunate, because otherwise, this would be a perfectly good way to do it.
Terminator857
Active Member
Right, because that is the displayed map, not the navigation system. (Especially the satellite maps.)
Terminator857
Active Member
It is not just the satellite map then. The map is google maps. Routing is done by Tesla. Tesla prefers more energy efficient routes, where Google prefers shortest time routes.
That sounds just like what many people do.
Your opinion, not backed up by facts.
When FSD is degraded in my car, it's obvious to me that it can still see through the rain (It displays traffic lights and other objects exactly the same as non-rain).
KArnold
Active Member
I'm not so sure. There is a SC about 8 miles down the road. The fastest route takes 5 miles of highway and is also a mile farther - definitely the quickest route. There is a somewhat direct route on 35 MPH roads but with a dozen traffic lights but much shorter. I suspect the latter is much more efficient with less distance and slower speeds as lights are well-timed.
The shorter route is not even listed as an alternative but I prefer it anyway.
For me, MY always took me to the shortest route, until this week. The latest version (at least in my area) started suggesting 3 different paths, and chose the shortest but second fastest route, instead of the fastest (but the longest) route. I always manually force the shortest route, so this is s welcome change.
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
This was discussed in the holiday update release notes.
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