Picked up my Tesla in early December, worst car I've ever owned.

[CertLive]

I agree and disagree with you. Agree that people need to do research before buying not just EV but about anything out there. Disagree about not driving same way as ICE to curtain degree. We did our 2k round trip in model 3 after owing it few month and had zero problems and no special strategy. Just followed the navigation and trip was smooth and just like any trips we have done in our ICE cars. Side note: I started little slower than usual but then quickly reverted to driving at same speeds as before. More frequent stops also helped to be more rested from road fatigue.

Yes agree when you have a car that is aware of its position and in relation to charging points and even their status, the EV journey is second to none and the breaks are warranted. But I still marvel when I get into my partners car and she fills up and pays within 2 minuets and continues straight on with an ICE. It will get there though... it will.

 

[WhiteWi]

Yes agree when you have a car that is aware of its position and in relation to charging points and even their status, the EV journey is second to none and the breaks are warranted. But I still marvel when I get into my partners car and she fills up and pays within 2 minuets and continues straight on with an ICE. It will get there though... it will.

Sorry I don‘t want to be back to the road in 2 minutes if I just drove for 2 hours. I want to stretch and walk a bit. That is why charging stops are great for me and my family. Kids dont want to sit in the car for more than 2 hours either.

 

[Bouba]

Have you seen the price of electricity lately? Poor challenge. But yes EV;s future is now set in stone if we can only mine its materials green for the packs. But being an early adopter 10+ years after they have been on the roads does not hold water anymore. Simple as other EV manufacturers use factory quality control checks on final product and checks before customer handover.

And other legacy vehicle manufacturers use inferior electronic components...for example a Volvo’s electronics are timed to fail when the guarantee ends.
Most dealer prep involves removing the plastic protective film and adding a mark up...and then ripping you off with servicing.
In my humble opinion...other vehicle manufacturers need to learn more from Tesla than Tesla needs to learn from them

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Sorry I don‘t want to be back to the road in 2 minutes if I just drove for 2 hours. I want to stretch and walk a bit. That is why charging stops are great for me and my family. Kids dont want to sit in the car for more than 2 hours either.

On any road trip we've ever done in our previous ICE vehicles, the shortest stops were usually around 15 minutes and tended to run more like 20+ minutes (that's not a full on stop-and-eat), and that's a fill up (at the typical flow rate of pumps in the US, which usually isn't the max specified), CC processing, probably a hand wash because gas/grease/grungy pump handle - which means a restroom trip - but of course, there's probably other people in the car using the restroom too, maybe a beverage in the store or busting into the trunk/hatch for a cooler, ice, etc.

Point is there are two "refueling" modes we operate in: the daily consumption which is handled __at__home__, or long drive/road trip/on-the-road which is commonly a longer stop anyway, and certainly if there's a meal involved.

Unless your road trip stops look like this ...

 

[WhiteWi]

On any road trip we've ever done in our previous ICE vehicles, the shortest stops were usually around 15 minutes and tended to run more like 20+ minutes (that's not a full on stop-and-eat), and that's a fill up (at the typical flow rate of pumps in the US, which usually isn't the max specified), CC processing, probably a hand wash because gas/grease/grungy pump handle - which means a restroom trip - but of course, there's probably other people in the car using the restroom too, maybe a beverage in the store or busting into the trunk/hatch for a cooler, ice, etc.

Point is there are two "refueling" modes we operate in: the daily consumption which is handled __at__home__, or long drive/road trip/on-the-road which is commonly a longer stop anyway, and certainly if there's a meal involved.

Unless your road trip stops look like this ...

View attachment 802896

yes, with ice our restroom breaks with 3 kids were at least 15 min more like 20.
How do u like your jeep xe vs Tesla?

 

[Bouba]

I agree the stopping times are personal preferences...we have friends who regularly drive from England or the north of Europe to the South of France...and they somehow do it in a day...we couldn’t..for us a trip like that could involve two nights in a hotel and only if we were in a hurry...we stop for dog walks...food..many toilet breaks and just because we wander off the beaten track to sightsee. Some people are more suited to EV’s than others...the thought of having to stop for a few minutes every two hundred miles is anathema to some...each to their own

 

[WhiteWi]

I agree the stopping times are personal preferences...we have friends who regularly drive from England or the north of Europe to the South of France...and they somehow do it in a day...we couldn’t..for us a trip like that could involve two nights in a hotel and only if we were in a hurry...we stop for dog walks...food..many toilet breaks and just because we wander off the beaten track to sightsee. Some people are more suited to EV’s than others...the thought of having to stop for a few minutes every two hundred miles is anathema to some...each to their own

Exactly it’s a mindset and it can be changed if you are not stuck up!

 

[Apprunner]

I just did a roadtrip and wanted to charge to 70% at a Supercharger. I was at 30% and by the time I got my Starbucks order, the car was at 80%

It was barely 15 minutes if that...those V3 stations are awesome

 

[googlepeakoil]

I just did a roadtrip and wanted to charge to 70% at a Supercharger. I was at 30% and by the time I got my Starbucks order, the car was at 80%

It was barely 15 minutes if that...those V3 stations are awesome

That 10-60% is ridiculously fast - even in a SR+. I get about 145kW peak. That's about 2.8C assuming a 55kWh battery.
If you know you want to do a slightly longer stop you can slow it down by say 15% by "not telling" the car it's going to a supercharger! ... so it doesn't pre-heat the battery! ie. navigate to the building next door for instance From watching Bjorn Youtube videos the battery is pre-heated to about 35C before arriving ( instead of actively cooling the battery the heatpump starts actively heating the battery + taking heat from the motor too), then the charging itself takes it to a peak of 55C (hit around 90-95%)before the active cooling takes it down to 30C over the next hour. Personally I think that's too high even for a short time. If you don't preheat then it's only going to get as hot as it won't charge quite as fast. And you might get better battery life, and slightly better efficiency (less heating and cooling going on). Tesla I presume are balancing life-expectancy and convenience. We'll learn in 5-10 years if there's some damage. We know early Model S 85's are now throttled to 70-90kW at fast chargers so Tesla has precedence of getting things slightly wrong.

 

[Bouba]

It’s quite fascinating actually to see all the cars noisily arrive at the supercharging station and then glide away when they are charged

 

[Apprunner]

That 10-60% is ridiculously fast - even in a SR+. I get about 145kW peak. That's about 2.8C assuming a 55kWh battery.
If you know you want to do a slightly longer stop you can slow it down by say 15% by "not telling" the car it's going to a supercharger! ... so it doesn't pre-heat the battery! ie. navigate to the building next door for instance From watching Bjorn Youtube videos the battery is pre-heated to about 35C before arriving ( instead of actively cooling the battery the heatpump starts actively heating the battery + taking heat from the motor too), then the charging itself takes it to a peak of 55C (hit around 90-95%)before the active cooling takes it down to 30C over the next hour. Personally I think that's too high even for a short time. If you don't preheat then it's only going to get as hot as it won't charge quite as fast. And you might get better battery life, and slightly better efficiency (less heating and cooling going on). Tesla I presume are balancing life-expectancy and convenience. We'll learn in 5-10 years if there's some damage. We know early Model S 85's are now throttled to 70-90kW at fast chargers so Tesla has precedence of getting things slightly wrong.

I also read that if you don't heat the battery enough for DC fast charging, its also bad for battery so its a complex formula for sure. That Starbucks run took a little longer than expected...the Supercharger beat it

I feel that if I drive about 1.5-2 hours and take a 20 min charging break, its the best schedule for me. Also, I like to rip the car around so I was going about 85 mph average and the car still did 327 wh/mi. I thought that was pretty damn good at that speed!

 

[MaskedRacerX]

yes, with ice our restroom breaks with 3 kids were at least 15 min more like 20.
How do u like your jeep xe vs Tesla?

They're both pretty awesome, different ... but also kind of the same

The Wrangler is super fun, it's is kind of got its own thing going: a boxy throwback, an incredibly capable off road vehicle, a modular LEGO with just an insane amount of parts, configs, options, etc.

How we got from a Mustang GT convertible and a DD/RT to a Tesla and Wrangler 4xe is probably a longer story than anyone wants to hear, but in terms of timing, we got the 4xe about 3 months before the M3P.

The Tesla is now the road trip car (vs. the old SUV), because the Jeep is now the topless ride (vs. the old Mustang) The top stays off 80-85% of the time (we've got an electric hoist, just hangs out of the way in the garage), so the Tesla is our "environment controlled" ride, when it's nasty hot, or raining (vs. putting the top back on the Jeep).

The 4xe is pretty awesome, it has all the perks of a loaded Wrangler JLU: Alpine 500 watt audio (with water resistant speakers), LED lighting upgrade, upgraded interior, plus 375HP / 470 ft-lbs of TQ as needed, it's so quick off the line too, I mean, for a box, ~5 seconds 0-60, and it has 2WD, 4WD, Hi/Lo range, just like any ICE Wrangler.

We mostly run it on battery since we use it around town for < 15 mile drives (when we occasionally engage the ICE, our blended gas MPG is ~47MPG).

It hits up the beach pretty regularly (down at our SUP spot, that's "4x4 only"), it does occasional "dirty duty" at the hardware store. We kind of blend our mileage, so the Jeep gets used around town more and the Tesla gets more long[er] trip mileage like down to Orlando/Universal a few times a year.

It's pretty effective for us as a PHEV, especially for how it's designed combined with how we use it (i.e., short electric only trips, tons of power when needed). That being said, and now having owned a BEV for almost a year, if we do another Wrangler, it will have to be a full on BEV

Pic for fun

 

[WhiteWi]

They're both pretty awesome, different ... but also kind of the same

The Wrangler is super fun, it's is kind of got its own thing going: a boxy throwback, an incredibly capable off road vehicle, a modular LEGO with just an insane amount of parts, configs, options, etc.

How we got from a Mustang GT convertible and a DD/RT to a Tesla and Wrangler 4xe is probably a longer story than anyone wants to hear, but in terms of timing, we got the 4xe about 3 months before the M3P.

The Tesla is now the road trip car (vs. the old SUV), because the Jeep is now the topless ride (vs. the old Mustang) The top stays off 80-85% of the time (we've got an electric hoist, just hangs out of the way in the garage), so the Tesla is our "environment controlled" ride, when it's nasty hot, or raining (vs. putting the top back on the Jeep).

The 4xe is pretty awesome, it has all the perks of a loaded Wrangler JLU: Alpine 500 watt audio (with water resistant speakers), LED lighting upgrade, upgraded interior, plus 375HP / 470 ft-lbs of TQ as needed, it's so quick off the line too, I mean, for a box, ~5 seconds 0-60, and it has 2WD, 4WD, Hi/Lo range, just like any ICE Wrangler.

We mostly run it on battery since we use it around town for < 15 mile drives (when we occasionally engage the ICE, our blended gas MPG is ~47MPG).

It hits up the beach pretty regularly (down at our SUP spot, that's "4x4 only"), it does occasional "dirty duty" at the hardware store. We kind of blend our mileage, so the Jeep gets used around town more and the Tesla gets more long[er] trip mileage like down to Orlando/Universal a few times a year.

It's pretty effective for us as a PHEV, especially for how it's designed combined with how we use it (i.e., short electric only trips, tons of power when needed). That being said, and now having owned a BEV for almost a year, if we do another Wrangler, it will have to be a full on BEV

Pic for fun



View attachment 803006

I used to own Wrangler in my 20s. I know it’s fun I was more interested in Hybrid aspect of it. Thanks for the long write up.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

I used to own Wrangler in my 20s. I know it’s fun I was more interested in Hybrid aspect of it. Thanks for the long write up.

One thing with the Hybrid system in the Wrangler, I covered it above a bit, but I think it's worth emphasizing: it's NOT designed like many hybrids in that the primary goal isn't to simply augment the ICE to provide better mileage. It's a bit more specific, it's about a quiet, gas-free 20-25 miles or having a ton of power on deck (when both systems are running).

I think some people bought one assuming they'd go tank to tank of gas and have substantially better mileage, but that's not really the case.

I'd also mention that we got ours early in the release, before any markups (in fact, we got a discount) and before the number of factory price increases (our model has gone up like $5K), plus got the $7500 (so we were about $10K under MSRP with a killer lease because Wrangler residuals are insane).

 

[Bouba]

Exactly it’s a mindset and it can be changed if you are not stuck up!

For most people, I am sure that by charging at home and never visiting a gas station you probably save more time in a Tesla than an ice car, even if long trips take a little longer....but you probably need to explain that to a receptive mind to win that argument

 

[Apprunner]

For most people, I am sure that by charging at home and never visiting a gas station you probably save more time in a Tesla than an ice car, even if long trips take a little longer....but you probably need to explain that to a receptive mind to win that argument

I've had this argument. I plug in every other day and it takes me 10 seconds to plug and 10 seconds to unplug. Thats 20 seconds 180 days out of the year. So that would be about 60 minutes of plugging and unplugging for an entire year. If I go to gas station and spend 5 minutes (typically takes longer) once a week for the year, thats 260 minutes. I've won every argument.

 

[WhiteWi]

I've had this argument. I plug in every other day and it takes me 10 seconds to plug and 10 seconds to unplug. Thats 20 seconds 180 days out of the year. So that would be about 60 minutes of plugging and unplugging for an entire year. If I go to gas station and spend 5 minutes (typically takes longer) once a week for the year, thats 260 minutes. I've won every argument.

Plus the time to get to gas station and get back home.

 

[Apprunner]

Plus the time to get to gas station and get back home.

True. I guess you can add in incremental charge time at Superchargers but typically, I plan those around Starbucks runs and bathroom breaks which muddy those numbers. I do not miss the gas stations in the least.

 

[Theone8181]

I

I've had this argument. I plug in every other day and it takes me 10 seconds to plug and 10 seconds to unplug. Thats 20 seconds 180 days out of the year. So that would be about 60 minutes of plugging and unplugging for an entire year. If I go to gas station and spend 5 minutes (typically takes longer) once a week for the year, thats 260 minutes. I've won every argument.

Only plug mine in twice a week so even less time lol.

 

[Slayerz00m]

I picked a new Model 3 Performance in December. I wanted a car for normal city driving and the occasional road trip a few hours away. My other car is a sportscar that is deathly allergic to any temperature below 50 degrees so I thought this would be the perfect addition. I live in a high rise with a garage that while not being heated, typically only goes down to about 40 degrees at the coldest.

I live in the Midwest where it can get down to the teens so I expected some range loss in cold weather, but the real world range I'm seeing is nowhere near reasonable. And this cold weather the following data is in was 45 degrees Fahrenheit.

For example, a 80 minute drive on the highway, never exceeding 80 mph used up about 51 kWh, for a Wh/mi of 518.
I then charged for an hour and preconditioned, only to make it 120 miles, averaging 68 mph, with a Wh/mi of nearly 460.

When I complained I was told "this is a city car, not a roadtrip car", so now I rent cars for my drives anywhere outside of 120 miles and drive it around the city. I still have never seen a full charge make it 130 miles without scrambling for a supercharger.

My usage while baby'ing the throttle with it in chill mode still ranges between 393 at the lowest and 1352 Wh/mi at the highest, with the only times it's under 600 Wh/mi is when it's preconditioned. I've also stopped using the seat and steering wheel warmers and keep the climate below 67 degrees on low to try and save energy.

I'm also not saving on gas, not even accounting for the wasted time it takes to charge vs filling up a tank. I charged 22 kWh yesterday (on a supercharger), which took 20 minutes. That's 27% of my range and based on historical data that should go about 40 miles. It cost $9, which is the equivalent to about 2.3 gallons of unleaded and I can tell you 17 mpg is below average for me in my other car.

Everyone I've talked to says that a total range of about 150 miles is the absolute best I can expect when it's below 45 degrees, and when I've called Tesla for support they've stated the same. And they said driving it a few times a week around the city I should expect around 75 miles from a full charge because the battery needs to get to operating temp. lol. Imagine an ICE car saying the best range you can expect is 75 miles.

So now I have a new Tesla that is useless for road trips and useless around the city.
Okay rambling rant over. Anyone want to buy this amazing car?

EVs are not low temperature cars. So you buying M3P for cold weather driving doesn't make sense.