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Plaid 21” rear tire woes - factory defect?
- Thread starter KOL2000
- Start date
Hayseed_MS
Spreader of "Endless Non Sequitur"
They said LOW but were not 100% sure since they did not notate and procedure may have changed.
Yes, the OEM 21"er's
Awiner
Member
If it was analyzed while in LOW your toe is right on where I would set it. Camber can be less negative but if you aren’t seeing inner tread wear, don’t sweat it. Keep an eye on it however.
Congrats, you have one of the very few properly aligned teslas from the factory in existence!
n2mb_racing
Active Member
So is it possible to align the car correctly using the stock parts or do we need aftermarket camber arms to reach reasonable values?
I believe on the rear you could make it more even if one side is more/less than the other, but I don't think you could reduce or induce camber. The fronts I think are a little different from the eccentric bolts (mentioned a couple of pages back).
But, the question is, do you have a shop that you trust to shift your rear subframe around to even it out? And then, what difference would it really make? And finally, would they charge extra to shift it around during the alignment? If so are you willing to pay a couple hundred extra to get that done instead of a little more and have it done properly?
It's a six-figure car, just pump $1000 into a set of arms and be done with it. Those arms are less than 1 set of rear tires.
Awiner
Member
Another thing that we really haven’t spoken that much about in regards to the model S is the issue of front half shaft vibrations. We’ve seen that lowering the model S as well as the model X approximately 1 inch reduces the half shaft issue if not totally eliminating it as long as the half shaft bearing races aren’t already marred. Unfortunately lowering the factory suspension yields way too much negative camber both front and rear plus out of toe specifications the only way to address this, of course in the rear is by the use of adjustable, camber arms to dial out too much negative camber once lowered.
n2mb_racing
Active Member
Yeah, I guess what I was asking is how much adjustment is already built into the rear. It sounds like not enough?
So your total rear toe is 0.38? If so, that's more than I would want. I have about 0.20 total rear toe from the factory and I was thinking that was on the high side, until I read this n2itive article that states .20 is good. If I had 0.38, I would pull that in a little bit.
What Wears Out Tires On A Tesla Faster? Toe or Camber?
We resolve this long standing debate on Tesla tire wear and show you how to solve this problem as well as how to determine the source of your tires issues.
n2itive.me
OEM is toe out though, right? (at least mine was) He's doing toe in. When you beat on the throttle, under load that toe is going out a bit so his 0.38 would be much lower.So your total rear toe is 0.38? If so, that's more than I would want. I have about 0.20 total rear toe from the factory and I was thinking that was on the high side, until I read this n2itive article that states .20 is good. If I had 0.38, I would pull that in a little bit.
"In my opinion the ideal rear suspension alignment settings on a Tesla S or X would be to set the camber to about -1° and set the toe to about 0.20 to 0.25° at the ride height you drive at most often (with air suspension)."What Wears Out Tires On A Tesla Faster? Toe or Camber?
We resolve this long standing debate on Tesla tire wear and show you how to solve this problem as well as how to determine the source of your tires issues.
Awiner
Member
So your total rear toe is 0.38? If so, that's more than I would want. I have about 0.20 total rear toe from the factory and I was thinking that was on the high side, until I read this n2itive article that states .20 is good. If I had 0.38, I would pull that in a little bit.
"In my opinion the ideal rear suspension alignment settings on a Tesla S or X would be to set the camber to about -1° and set the toe to about 0.20 to 0.25° at the ride height you drive at most often (with air suspension)."What Wears Out Tires On A Tesla Faster? Toe or Camber?
We resolve this long standing debate on Tesla tire wear and show you how to solve this problem as well as how to determine the source of your tires issues.
N2itive suggests a toe of 0.10 to 0.15 for each side. That would be a total rear toe of .20 to .30. Teslas spec is a very wide Total Rear Toe of 0.10° to 0.70°.So your total rear toe is 0.38? If so, that's more than I would want. I have about 0.20 total rear toe from the factory and I was thinking that was on the high side, until I read this n2itive article that states .20 is good. If I had 0.38, I would pull that in a little bit.
"In my opinion the ideal rear suspension alignment settings on a Tesla S or X would be to set the camber to about -1° and set the toe to about 0.20 to 0.25° at the ride height you drive at most often (with air suspension)."What Wears Out Tires On A Tesla Faster? Toe or Camber?
We resolve this long standing debate on Tesla tire wear and show you how to solve this problem as well as how to determine the source of your tires issues.
Awiner
Member
OEM is positive toe. That’s tow in.
Out of spec Toe out (negative toe) is what I suspect is scrubbing the inner side wall area.
Awiner
Member
That’s an old article. Refer to the updated specs on N2itives FAQ page."In my opinion the ideal rear suspension alignment settings on a Tesla S or X would be to set the camber to about -1° and set the toe to about 0.20 to 0.25° at the ride height you drive at most often (with air suspension)."What Wears Out Tires On A Tesla Faster? Toe or Camber?
We resolve this long standing debate on Tesla tire wear and show you how to solve this problem as well as how to determine the source of your tires issues.
Yes, of course Awiner has it solved--it's all Tesla's fault . . . but he also fails to address why we have yet to see even one Plaid Pirelli 19" tire failure of any kind, on any thread.
Hmmm.
Awiner
Member
If I May opine about that. The 19” tires have a significantly taller and albeit more flexible sidewall than the 21” profile. The 21” sidewall is less flexible and therefore more sensitive to alignment (in this case toe and to some extent camber) issues.
With that being said, I am not suggesting that Michelin doesn’t have some other issues but they/Tesla have an issue with the 21” tire it’s just that the 21” tire is more sensitive to alignment issues as well as rubber bushing compliancy.
It will likely be the same outcome as on our car: fully in spec.
Yet we still have two rear tires that appear to be "lathed" on the inner sidewall, and are losing 2 to 3 psi per week.
As has been said before, sidewalls on the 19s are softer so they flex more. The 20s have the same problem as the 21s but to a lesser degree.
The uneven wear goes away completely with adjustable camber and toe arms.
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Perhaps that may be the case, but at the end of the day, just on this thread alone we have dozens of 21" tires with thread/sidewall failures well before the tread reflects significant wear.
Michelin needs to step up and replace tires that are prematurely failing, before there's an accident. It's called a "recall."
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