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Plaid 21” rear tire woes - factory defect?

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Here is the message I just sent Tesla Service regarding my rear tires. I will post how they respond. The tire message is at the bottom of the attached image. Based on my past experiences, I doubt they will react favorably, but I need to record their response regardless.

Joe


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Here is the message I just sent Tesla Service regarding my rear tires. I will post how they respond. The tire message is at the bottom of the attached image. Based on my past experiences, I doubt they will react favorably, but I need to record their response regardless.

Joe


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Please keep us posted, but I suspect they'll tell you to pound sand.

How many miles to do you have?

Second, I would start a Michelin claim via their website but I believe you have to have retained the tires for warranty inspection . . . did you do so?
 
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I created a Michelin claim and they paid a small amount towards the replacement tires, indicating that the issue was Tesla’s. I could not argue with them because I think the issue is Tesla’s. I will post Tesla’s response once I receive it. I was right around 12,500-ish miles when I noticed the rear tire issues. Thanks to this forum! I would have never checked the inside edge of a tire with perfect tread on it were it not for this forum and specifically, this thread.

Please keep us posted, but I suspect they'll tell you to pound sand.

How many miles to do you have?

Second, I would start a Michelin claim via their website but I believe you have to have retained the tires for warranty inspection . . . did you do so?
 
All,

I am serving Tesla with a small claims filing associated with the failure of my rear tires. I opted out of arbitration. For anyone who opted out of arbitration who wishes to contact Tesla legally, I have attached the name and address of the corporation who handles some of their legal claims. It did not take me long to find it, but when I asked Tesla for their legal service address, they… well… responded as you might expect. I attached their response as well as the legal service address.

Joe
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All,

I am serving Tesla with a small claims filing associated with the failure of my rear tires. I opted out of arbitration. For anyone who opted out of arbitration who wishes to contact Tesla legally, I have attached the name and address of the corporation who handles some of their legal claims. It did not take me long to find it, but when I asked Tesla for their legal service address, they… well… responded as you might expect. I attached their response as well as the legal service address.

JoeView attachment 1007479View attachment 1007480
Interesting. You couldn't just send it to:

Tesla Motors, Inc.
3500 Deer Creek Road
Palo Alto, California 94304
 
All,

I am serving Tesla with a small claims filing associated with the failure of my rear tires. I opted out of arbitration. For anyone who opted out of arbitration who wishes to contact Tesla legally, I have attached the name and address of the corporation who handles some of their legal claims. It did not take me long to find it, but when I asked Tesla for their legal service address, they… well… responded as you might expect. I attached their response as well as the legal service address.

Joe

For everyone's awareness, you are allowed to take Tesla to small claims court even if you are under the arbitration agreement. It specifically states that here: https://www.tesla.com/legal/additional-resources

Also, their response is on par with what you should expect through the entire "case", if you're not familiar with lawsuits, they are not easy, loose, or fun. I'm not going to give you legal advice, but I would personally probably not invest any efforts in what you plan on doing.


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Fixed for ya.

I’d love to see alignment sheets for anyone thinking their tires are wearing out too quickly. Too bad we can’t see the throttle use datalogs.

You can see the throttle % in datalogs, I just pulled a log about a week ago.

It's easier if you just pay the $50/year for teslafi because that has throttle% estimates while you drag the cursor on the map of the trip you want to check. The official Tesla log could be 20,000-30,000 lines of a spreadsheet per day if you drive a lot.
 
Here’s a datapoint at 7500 miles: I run the car on low suspension setting all the time, don’t drive it as aggressively as I could, tires at 45 PSI ever since car hit 2500 miles, and also car was aligned at 2500 miles as seen below by Tesla since I didn’t want to leave to chance that it came well aligned from the factory. So far they’re holding up well.

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Thanks for sharing your alignment specs. I think the toe adjustment plays a very crucial role especially when camber is at negative. The toe out for most of the cars here are causing the tire to drag sideways more causing the dreaded wear/delamination. Your slight toe in suggests the best solution for factory settings and stock suspension parts.
 
Thanks for sharing your alignment specs. I think the toe adjustment plays a very crucial role especially when camber is at negative. The toe out for most of the cars here are causing the tire to drag sideways more causing the dreaded wear/delamination. Your slight toe in suggests the best solution for factory settings and stock suspension parts.
Happy to see people are catching on.
 
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Guys, you would have to have MUCH more negative camber for this to cause the wear. Toe would be the bigger factor here, so maybe that's worth investigating. Since I had my rears replaced at Tesla service maybe they checked the alignment, but maybe not. Maybe this is just an issue with the PS4S?
Agree the positive toe is also a major cause of the problem. It’s like dragging the corner of the inner tread across the pavement with positive toe. Worse so under acceleration. There should be slight negative toe-in as it is natural tendency to open out towards positive as car moves forward. Someone posted on here an alignment spec as performed at Tesla Fremont SC and the owner was not having the rear tire issue anymore.
 
Agree the positive toe is also a major cause of the problem. It’s like dragging the corner of the inner tread across the pavement with positive toe. Worse so under acceleration. There should be slight negative toe-in as it is natural tendency to open out towards positive as car moves forward. Someone posted on here an alignment spec as performed at Tesla Fremont SC and the owner was not having the rear tire issue anymore.
Positive toe is when the front of the wheel is turned in. Negative toe is when the front of the wheel is turned out.
 
Tesla's excessive negative rear camber is only 10-20% of the tread problem, and is non-adjustable on stock camber arm. Excessive rear toe is 80-90% of the tread problem, and is also non-adjustable on stock toe arms. Then, heavy acceleration forces the entire rear subframe to move forward, further increasing the already huge rear toe, and no wonder the tires disintegrate.

Tesla's factory alignment specs are complete garbage. There are no other production vehicles that spec 0.18 degrees of toe as an allowable value, yet every post in this thread that says "Tesla did my alignment" has attached a picture showing Tesla has their rear toe at 0.18 degrees, unacceptable.

Model S/X drivers with 21s have only 2 options:
1. Replace tires every 5-10k
2. Install aftermarket adjustable camber and toe arms, and correct the alignment to sensible specs instead of Tesla's junk specs.

As @Sam1 has already explained, 19s are much less (but not immune) to the bad alignments because of greater available sidewall flexing.

Anyone that doesn't believe this? Let me run your 21s on my Model S with aftermarket arms and corrected alignment. I drive like a bat out of hell, but I'll still get 30k out of your 21" factory Michelins (because I've got 45k on my tires already, with more remaining). I'm running -0.4 camber and +0.02 toe on all 4 corners.
Two things. a). The factory rear toe is adjustable. b). Tesla Fremont SC adjusts rear toe to slightly positive (front of wheel direction facing towards vehicle centerline. Result. No tire wear so far as reported by owner who posted this here.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/attachments/46ce0950-1908-4dc2-8c7d-2a7eb57f1baa-jpeg.892385/
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Yes, of course Awiner has it solved--it's all Tesla's fault . . . but he also fails to address why we have yet to see even one Plaid Pirelli 19" tire failure of any kind, on any thread.

Hmmm.
Andrew from the Tesla Plaid Channel still runs on original 19” Pirellis even though he has had at least 800 launches on the dragstrips since delivery day. The car’s front brakes were replaced at 10k miles because of constant hard braking from 155 mph at the end of quarter mile. He’s on original suspension. The 19” is great but the 21” remains a mystery.
 
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