Please don't do this...(park blocking multiple Supercharger spots)

[Tedkidd]

By this logic then the Model S should have a sub 100 mile range because that's what everybody else is doing.

No offense, but majority does not by default make it right. Nor are responses to this forum statistically significant as the sample size is too small. To be honest right now no one knows what most people prefer because the data doesn't exist.

And pointing to placement on other vehicles is not proof. Placement on other vehicles may be necessitated by design.

And like regen, people may find there is benefit to backing into a spot that they then come to appreciate. Yes backing in is a change in behavior. And people tend the resit change, which believe it or not we've evolved to do because learning a new behavior requires more energy than performing an old activity even if the old activity is less efficient than the new one. So, most peoples first response to change is resistance, but once they learn there change they often don't know why they thought the old one was better. Like coasting.

Nicely expressed.

Being innovative means NOT following conventional thinking.

 

[galangg]

Man, I'm a cyclist and will be putting a hitch on mine when I get it. However, I would never​ do this. Truly uncool.

 

[AnOutsider]

If the cables are lengthened, the voltage drop at high currents may not be tolerable, which means thicker conductors to lower the resistance and the voltage drop.

Longer and/or thicker cables == more cost

I guess I don't understand how stalls at the entrance of the spot (so you don't have to back in) require longer cables? I've seen one or two like it, and the cables are the same length as the curb-mounted units. You just position your car differently.

 

[bonnie]

I guess I don't understand how stalls at the entrance of the spot (so you don't have to back in) require longer cables? I've seen one or two like it, and the cables are the same length as the curb-mounted units. You just position your car differently.

I think they were talking about still leaving the supercharger hardware on the curb to allow for plows and such, but make the cable longer so those that are unwilling/unable to back their car into the spot (though they still have to back out), can do so.

The problem I see with a longer cable is one we all see every day at other charging spots ... there is always 'that person' who can't be bothered with putting it neatly away, and eventually the connector is damaged. The shorter cable length eliminates that problem.

 

[Cottonwood]

If the cables are lengthened, the voltage drop at high currents may not be tolerable, which means thicker conductors to lower the resistance and the voltage drop.

Longer and/or thicker cables == more cost

NEC requires and Tesla uses a 350 mcm copper wire from the Supercharger Cabinet to the Pedestal. With a 333 Amp current that accumulates an additional 20 mV per foot for extra cable length. That is minimal compared to the charging Voltage of 300 to 400 Volts. Longer cables do cost more, but I bet that is less than the trenching cost.

The issues of trenching cost and complexity, combined with snow plow issues in northern/mountain issues make the pedestals behind the curb the preferred design.

Personally, I think backing into the spaces is fun. My lab, Foxy, appreciates the smaller jump height into and out of the rear hatch from and onto to curb height. She really likes Supercharger time walks. :biggrin:

 

[scaesare]

Cottonwood beat me to the point that the actual cable length is from car to cabinet (not pedestal), and that already can be upwards of 100' away.. so a few extra feet at the pedestal end wouldn't be a big deal from a loss standpoint...

I do expect they might get unwieldy however... the pedestal design is such that the majority of the weight is suspended from the top of the pedestal assembly. Extending their length another 10-15' might make them a bit heavy to lift...

 

[Madartist]

In response to the OP, this is certainly not the first time that this has happened. See this thread: Worse than getting ICE'ed!!

The key differences are 1) the silver MS did not have a bike rack which required unloading in order to back into the SC stall and 2) the owner of the vehicle was no where in sight.

Like others have said, I can see why the owner of this black MS in the OP find it to be a hassle to unload the bike rake in order to charge. As long as he/she is there to move the vehicle immediately to allow others to charge when they need them, I don't really see any harm done. However, that is certainly not the case with the silver MS in the previous thread. As the number of Tesla's grow on the road, it behooves all of us to be considerate of others when visiting the SCs.

 

[tga]

I think they were talking about still leaving the supercharger hardware on the curb to allow for plows and such, but make the cable longer so those that are unwilling/unable to back their car into the spot (though they still have to back out), can do so.

That's how I read it - "making longer supercharger cables to reach the other end of the stalls would increase cost, and likely require much thicker cables"

The problem I see with a longer cable is one we all see every day at other charging spots ... there is always 'that person' who can't be bothered with putting it neatly away, and eventually the connector is damaged. The shorter cable length eliminates that problem.

Good point - also, when put away, the extra length will hang out of the pedestal, where it would be a trip hazard, or could get driven over and damaged (the cable, in addition to the connector)

NEC requires and Tesla uses a 350 mcm copper wire from the Supercharger Cabinet to the Pedestal. With a 333 Amp current that accumulates an additional 20 mV per foot for extra cable length. That is minimal compared to the charging Voltage of 300 to 400 Volts. Longer cables do cost more, but I bet that is less than the trenching cost.

The issues of trenching cost and complexity, combined with snow plow issues in northern/mountain issues make the pedestals behind the curb the preferred design.

Personally, I think backing into the spaces is fun. My lab, Foxy, appreciates the smaller jump height into and out of the rear hatch from and onto to curb height. She really likes Supercharger time walks. :biggrin:

I was talking about lengthening the external cable (pedestal to car), not the underground ones (ie, not moving the pedestal). But I guess those could be 350mcm as well - I'm trying to remember how big (diameter) the pedestal-to-car cable is. 1.2" (2x0.6") might be right. But, it's probably irrelevant considering losses from the (much longer) length of the underground cable.

 

[David_Cary]

Nicely expressed.

Being innovative means NOT following conventional thinking.

My take on this response is --- this is Tesla - everything they do is right because they are Tesla.

Just because something is "conventional" doesn't make it wrong.

Majority does not make it right. Of course. I'm just giving evidence that others (even if they are stupid, evil auto manufacturers) decided to do it another way. And given that public charging stations are built for majority EVs, it is a problem deviating from that. I have a charging station at work in a garage on an angle with the flow of traffic. Very difficult to back into - it is a pretty tight garage and I guarantee there is not a driver here that can make that move without inconveniencing other drivers while they block traffic. The Teslas don't park there partly because they don't need to but when one had to (home charging not installed yet), he cursed the location of the port. I see Teslas all the time and I've never seen one backed in except at a charging port. So the owners around here haven't switched......

The Puerto Rico hurricane thing is pretty silly of course. Hurricanes are not tsunamis or tornados. We usually (really always) know about them several days in advance. And hurricane tracking is not exactly something new. While someone may have used that reason, it is completely irrational. PR is of course a small island and there is really no where to evacuate to. Sure you can leave the coasts but you can't get very far. And there really isn't much hurricane history for PR. 1 person died in 1998 and the last direct hit before that was 1930s. So lighting strikes in SoCal have killed the same number of people in the last 80 years as hurricanes in PR (completely unconfirmed).

 

[bonnie]

My take on this response is --- this is Tesla - everything they do is right because they are Tesla.

Just because something is "conventional" doesn't make it wrong.

Majority does not make it right. Of course. I'm just giving evidence that others (even if they are stupid, evil auto manufacturers) decided to do it another way. And given that public charging stations are built for majority EVs, it is a problem deviating from that. I have a charging station at work in a garage on an angle with the flow of traffic. Very difficult to back into - it is a pretty tight garage and I guarantee there is not a driver here that can make that move without inconveniencing other drivers while they block traffic. The Teslas don't park there partly because they don't need to but when one had to (home charging not installed yet), he cursed the location of the port. I see Teslas all the time and I've never seen one backed in except at a charging port. So the owners around here haven't switched......

The Puerto Rico hurricane thing is pretty silly of course. Hurricanes are not tsunamis or tornados. We usually (really always) know about them several days in advance. And hurricane tracking is not exactly something new. While someone may have used that reason, it is completely irrational. PR is of course a small island and there is really no where to evacuate to. Sure you can leave the coasts but you can't get very far. And there really isn't much hurricane history for PR. 1 person died in 1998 and the last direct hit before that was 1930s. So lighting strikes in SoCal have killed the same number of people in the last 80 years as hurricanes in PR (completely unconfirmed).

I wouldn't dismiss PR as silly unless you've been there during a hurricane. Or just a normal tropical storm. It's not a contest, I was pointing out a behavior learned somewhere else and why. Throwing out statistics about other parts of the world has nothing to do with the fact that people do back into spots on a regular basis and it is much more controlled leaving.

Most places I charge, the charging setup is such that I can charge whether I back in or pull in. Cables are pretty long, except at superchargers. So this seems pretty dramatic overall. Don't back in. I won't be upset.

Look, we get it. You don't like backing in. Some of us do. Grant us that and don't make it all about just approving anything Tesla does. Such a silly discussion.

 

[dsm363]

See nothing wrong with backing into a Supercharger. Would rather have that than have someone leave the cable on the ground and drive over it. That would happen.

 

[David_Cary]

I wouldn't dismiss PR as silly unless you've been there during a hurricane. Or just a normal tropical storm. It's not a contest, I was pointing out a behavior learned somewhere else and why. Throwing out statistics about other parts of the world has nothing to do with the fact that people do back into spots on a regular basis and it is much more controlled leaving.

Most places I charge, the charging setup is such that I can charge whether I back in or pull in. Cables are pretty long, except at superchargers. So this seems pretty dramatic overall. Don't back in. I won't be upset.

Look, we get it. You don't like backing in. Some of us do. Grant us that and don't make it all about just approving anything Tesla does. Such a silly discussion.

Ok - But the problem discussed here is a problem with backing in - right? Since people travel and carry things on the back of the car, it is a problem. Since people use superchargers when they travel, the cable length and port location is a problem (of course IMO).

Since the Model X may use a trailer even more, perhaps Tesla should rethink the charging port location.

I don't think the port location is silly - it created the problem in this thread.

I certainly grant that some people prefer backing in. In my area, it is far less than 10%, usually trucks that have visibility issues. Rarely a sedan (again in my area).

I do think it is pretty silly to claim that you need to run from a hurricane when it comes with 3 days warning.

 

[rlang59]

Ok - But the problem discussed here is a problem with backing in - right? Since people travel and carry things on the back of the car, it is a problem. Since people use superchargers when they travel, the cable length and port location is a problem (of course IMO).

Since the Model X may use a trailer even more, perhaps Tesla should rethink the charging port location.

I don't think the port location is silly - it created the problem in this thread.

I certainly grant that some people prefer backing in. In my area, it is far less than 10%, usually trucks that have visibility issues. Rarely a sedan (again in my area).

I do think it is pretty silly to claim that you need to run from a hurricane when it comes with 3 days warning.

What would that matter? You still couldn't pull into a standard parking space while pulling a trailer without it sticking out into traffic.

 

[bonnie]

Ok - But the problem discussed here is a problem with backing in - right? Since people travel and carry things on the back of the car, it is a problem. Since people use superchargers when they travel, the cable length and port location is a problem (of course IMO).

Since the Model X may use a trailer even more, perhaps Tesla should rethink the charging port location.

I don't think the port location is silly - it created the problem in this thread.

I certainly grant that some people prefer backing in. In my area, it is far less than 10%, usually trucks that have visibility issues. Rarely a sedan (again in my area).

I do think it is pretty silly to claim that you need to run from a hurricane when it comes with 3 days warning.

-sigh- Again, I was only giving some context as to where in some parts of the world, it is common to back in and why. While I did mention tropical storms, I might have been more explicit. Tropical storms are sudden, not predicted always (because lord knows I've been caught in some), and so heavy that umbrellas are a hindrance, windshield wipers are useless, and visibility can be only a few yards ahead during the worst of it. So can we please puhlease let this go? It was for context. You've turned it into something else.

- - - Updated - - -

And if the X has towing capability, I plan on towing on a regular basis in the summer. And as I've stated before, I'll just drop the trailer. It's a really quick process to do so and to rehook it up. If I think it's quick and easy, I can't imagine that anyone else would think it was difficult or time consuming.

 

[David_Cary]

What would that matter? You still couldn't pull into a standard parking space while pulling a trailer without it sticking out into traffic.

It was for the supercharger issue when at least at some, you aren't blocking traffic with a trailer. Might be blocking some parking spots but not other supercharger spots. In the OP situation, wouldn't a forward located port have minimized the problem? Maybe not since I don't know the local area around that supercharger.

 

[rlang59]

It was for the supercharger issue when at least at some, you aren't blocking traffic with a trailer. Might be blocking some parking spots but not other supercharger spots. In the OP situation, wouldn't a forward located port have minimized the problem? Maybe not since I don't know the local area around that supercharger.

At every Supercharger I have ever been to if you tried to pull in front first with a trailer attached that trailer would be sticking out into traffic and blocking the lane.
In the case of the OP I don't know if it would, those bikes stick out pretty far and would probably still be blocking traffic to some extent.

 

[smartypnz]

First of all, thanks to the OP for pointing out this problem both on the way the person parked, and on the fact that the SC does not fit all situations. This is something Tesla needs to address.

A possible solution on future SC's- or redesign of current ones is to have a canopy where the cables hang from above tethered be retractable cords. Pull into (gas station style), pull the appropriate cable down and plug in. May not be logistically feasible, but an idea.

 

[hoopty_yo]

At every Supercharger I have ever been to if you tried to pull in front first with a trailer attached that trailer would be sticking out into traffic and blocking the lane.
In the case of the OP I don't know if it would, those bikes stick out pretty far and would probably still be blocking traffic to some extent.

The Centralia Supercharger is just a parking lot. There is another row of regular parking spaces across from the chargers that back up to the grass bank that holds up the highway.
As someone else mentioned, they could have parked diagonal in the cross-hatched area of the last stall. Worst case - there are two entrances.

I doubt this person had any ill intent against their own kind; they are probably just oblivious. The same thing happens to a lot of people when you put a shopping cart in their hands - no signaling, terrible lane control, frequent stops....squirrel!!

 

[rlang59]

The Centralia Supercharger is just a parking lot. There is another row of regular parking spaces across from the chargers that back up to the grass bank that holds up the highway.
As someone else mentioned, they could have parked diagonal in the cross-hatched area of the last stall. Worst case - there are two entrances.

I doubt this person had any ill intent against their own kind; they are probably just oblivious. The same thing happens to a lot of people when you put a shopping cart in their hands - no signaling, terrible lane control, frequent stops....squirrel!!

I'm talking about blocking flow through the parking lot in the lane that is adjacent to the parking spaces that the stalls occupy. The lane the person taking the picture is standing in, not the highway. A car pulling a trailer would block this lane. And blocking one entrance because there is another is not an acceptable practice.

 

[iffatall]

A simple solution to the issue of - how to supercharge when something is sticking out of the rear - would be for Tesla to design and sell a Supercharger extension cord as an accessory. Whoever is in the situation, can just buy it.

It sounds unreasonable to expect a redesign of the entire supercharger infrastructure to address this rare issue.