[POLL] Will base model M3 beat the Chevy Bolt's 238 mile EPA range?

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

The reveal gave the target and that'll be it. It might be a little more than the reveal just because the base model's battery will likely be determined by the modular nature of batteries.

If there's a good reason for the base model to have extra range it'd be to have more capacity for faster Supercharging. But the Model 3 will have a larger battery option for people for whom range and Supercharger speed are more important.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

The reveal gave the target and that'll be it. It might be a little more than the reveal just because the base model's battery will likely be determined by the modular nature of batteries.

If there's a good reason for the base model to have extra range it'd be to have more capacity for faster Supercharging. But the Model 3 will have a larger battery option for people for whom range and Supercharger speed are more important.

nah, I think he called GM's bluff with his "at least 215" bet. They laid 238 on the table, and at that point, he knew he had them....since he has the tech to put out a Model 3 that will beat it.

Even if it's just 239......he'll reclaim the title of "best range mass produced EV"

 

[Troy]

Hi, everybody. This poll is now part of a larger competition called "Tesla Predictions Competition". @insaneoctane, who started the poll has kindly agreed that I can use the results of this poll instead of duplicating it. In case you are worried your vote will be public, don't be, because your vote is already public. This poll was created that way.

The competition will consist of many polls. This is the first one. I will create a few more polls soon in the Model 3 forum section. Watch out for those. You can suggest questions for new polls here: Tesla Predictions Competition

 

[alehbaba]

who cares????? i doubt the same people would buy a bolt as would buy a model 3....really??? the bolt is ugly looking chevy generic boring car...the model 3 is sleeker and more high tech...even if the range on the model 3 is 200 miles its a far sweeter car then the bolt....everyone of you knows this....i dont get the comparisons??? bolt doesnt have a charging network to travel on...tesla does....for 35k it aint gonna have model s distance.

 

[JeffK]

who cares????? i doubt the same people would buy a bolt as would buy a model 3....really??? the bolt is ugly looking chevy generic boring car...the model 3 is sleeker and more high tech...even if the range on the model 3 is 200 miles its a far sweeter car then the bolt....everyone of you knows this....i dont get the comparisons??? bolt doesnt have a charging network to travel on...tesla does....for 35k it aint gonna have model s distance.

There are a number of reasons. Some people still have loyalty to GM, people want a hatchback, people want the tax incentive and it might be around for GM for a few months longer than Tesla, 0-60 mph in 6.5 seconds is still pretty quick, Some still have doubts on Tesla's build quality, and some people want the comfort of having a GM stealership really close to home, etc. It's also a physically smaller car which is desirable in some regions.

 

[SageBrush]

There are a number of reasons. Some people still have loyalty to GM, people want a hatchback, people want the tax incentive and it might be around for GM for a few months longer than Tesla, 0-60 mph in 6.5 seconds is still pretty quick, Some still have doubts on Tesla's build quality, and some people want the comfort of having a GM stealership really close to home, etc. It's also a physically smaller car which is desirable in some regions.

Yep.

I am going to buy the Model despite the sedan design. If I'm lucky I'll get to swap it out for a Model Y in a few years.

 

[alehbaba]

Doesnt anyone buy a car based on style/looks..sleekness????? I mean gm cars just blow chunks ...period. Even the lame muscle cars and corvettes suck. The design of all gm cars is *sugar*...cheap ugly *sugar*. Ugly styles/shapes/colors and not the company it once was.Same with ford...dodge(yuk)...chrysler...volvo...saab....toyota...nissan...lexus...mercedes...acura....bmw....audi....I see all these cars all day long and they are ugly as *sugar*. Generic...i see bmw's that look like american cars now and volvos that look like american cars..its like they all just decided to be boring and homogeneous...No real pizaz or fun or excitement. The release a ford focus in an ugly lime green or honda fit in a ugly olive green or faggy yellow and the comercial on tv shows a bunch of gaywad millenials acting like the car is so cool and life is just one big party.......then there is lincoln with McConnahay commercials all suave and sushi eating-wanna puke.....then cadilac showing how sporty they have become yet its still a family car..puke again....then chevy with commercials showing 4-5 retarded people while the spokesperson spouts off all the awards in the last 5 yrs...blah blah blah....like that will make me buy their ugly ass cars....maybe retards will but not me....

I really feel newer cars are starting to all either look alike in many ways or look like a baby designed them(the cube and the kia soul-again showing not a care in the world millenials partying down and acting like life is one big party.)..With all the design teams and possibilities look around and thats all they come up with?? reallyyyyyyyyyyyyyy??? Then there is the ev....remember the prius commercials and what a piece of junk those cars were/are...every liberltard i know drives one and they are so ugly and uncomfortable to ride in i want to puke again....and now with full ev they give us the leaf golfcart..or the i3 moon rover...or the bolt looks like a chevy pos car....really????? this is what these designers come up with?????? I would fire them 1-2-3 but i guess these companies want ugly *sugar* cars on the road...the sad part is people just settle for them and accept it and actually convince themselves its a cool car....mk ultra at its best.

Then you have tesla......a fresh start to a expansive future...overpriced but sexy/sleek and classy. Not perfect but in these few years tesla has ran circles around every other car company in style and pizaz. So it can be done. Other companies are just lazy and with braindead-brainwashed people its easy to keep churning out the same ugly crap year after year and still make money.

 

[SageBrush]

Doesnt anyone buy a car based on style

Sure -- GM people.
They just apparently have different taste than yours.

Rest assured they are going to look at Tesla cars and call them "weird-mobiles."
But then you probably know that what goes around comes around.

Sincerely,
A liberal, serial Prius owner

 

[wdolson]

You mean the way you drive you exceed EPA ratings. Doesn't have anything much to do with the car.

A number of people have reported often being able to get more than the EPA range driving the Bolt. It's very tough to just barely get the EPA range on the Model S. I've been able to do it, but I usually fall a couple of miles short. On a 40 mile round trip I'll see about 264-266 miles starting with 268 miles range. Occasionally I can get rated range, but usually only around town (driving 5-6 miles total).

It looks like GM sandbagged a little and advertise the Bolt a little shy of it's best case, real world range (not hypermiling experiments) and Tesla goes to the edge of what is possible with the most careful real world driving.

who cares????? i doubt the same people would buy a bolt as would buy a model 3....really??? the bolt is ugly looking chevy generic boring car...the model 3 is sleeker and more high tech...even if the range on the model 3 is 200 miles its a far sweeter car then the bolt....everyone of you knows this....i dont get the comparisons??? bolt doesnt have a charging network to travel on...tesla does....for 35k it aint gonna have model s distance.

Cross shopping a Bolt and a Model 3 is like cross shopping a Yaris and a Camry. That's close to the size difference of the two.

 

[R.S]

Automakers outsource a lot of parts, but they have core parts that they build themselves, like their engine blocks. Also the Model 3 cells are going to be built as a joint venture.

The packs are joint venture and there are still many other suppliers invloved, but the cells are Panasonic. The real question is what is a core part on an EV? If we treat it like a rolling computer, it should be enough to design some parts, but not manufacture them. The real value creation is somewhere else, like with an iPhone.

Is the inverter a core part? Or the charger? Or even the motor? As long as it works, the consumer won't feel any difference.

It usually works better if a company focuses on a few core parts and thries to make them as good as possible. The idea that a company tries to do everything themselves, like the carmakers of old did, works for very simple products, not for something as complicated as a modern EV. Just imagine a car maker trying to do micro-chip development...

The main objective of a car maker is designing a desirable product, not to build as much parts as possible. That would be the innovative way. The way high tech companies work.

 

[JeffK]

The packs are joint venture and there are still many other suppliers invloved, but the cells are Panasonic.

I wonder how much of the cells are actually Panasonic.. or is it rather Panasonic is simply manufacturing what Tesla told them to.
It's like saying Apple buys their chips from TSMC. While technically true, TSMC did not design the chip, they simply manufacture it to spec.

 

[R.S]

I wonder how much of the cells are actually Panasonic.. or is it rather Panasonic is simply manufacturing what Tesla told them to.
It's like saying Apple buys their chips from TSMC. While technically true, TSMC did not design the chip, they simply manufacture it to spec.

Usually the car companies own the cell chemistry, GM owns their chemistry, too. Now I do think that the development is done jointly, with each company bringing in it's strengths. Panasonics strength is definately building cells, the rest is unknown how much which company did. But I am pretty sure Panasonic can't sell those cells to anyone else.

I've worked in the car industry for some time, exclusively at suppliers and usually we did the development according to the OEMs specs, with a constant back and forth of samples, tests and audits and the car maker put the logo on it.

 

[Model 3]

or is it rather Panasonic is simply manufacturing what Tesla told them to.

It has at least from the start of Model S production been talked about some specific modifications to the cells they produces based on specifications given by Tesla. So it is made to Tesla specifications, but it is probably also based on Panasonic tech.

 

[Model 3]

Usually the car companies own the cell chemistry, GM owns their chemistry, too.

This is the first time I heard about anyone but Tesla that own their cell chemistry. Any sources for this information?

 

[R.S]

This is the first time I heard about anyone but Tesla that own their cell chemistry. Any sources for this information?

Mark Reuss: “We own our own battery chemistry. We integrate the pack and we have our own electric motors. We own all that design.”

GM is focused on making its next electric vehicle profitable, says executive

All of them own their chemistry, that's part of the deal. (In 2014 BMW actually followed Tesla, by opening all patents to their cell, they developed jointly with Samsung, as if someone would actually want those )

 

[Krugerrand]

I agree on the infrastructure, but outsourcing?

Most value in any car today is added by suppliers. Thats business as usual and for a good reason. Tesla gets their cells from Panasonic, instead of building their own ones, for a reason. The same goes for the AP computer by NVIDIA. Both are very expensive parts of their vehicles, but a supplier can do it better.

That entirely misses the point that Tesla does more insourcing than any other OEM by at least one order of magnitude.

 

[Model 3]

Mark Reuss: “We own our own battery chemistry. We integrate the pack and we have our own electric motors. We own all that design.”

That's interesting. But while they made a big dial about that they (GM) designed the electric motor that LG make, this is the first I heard about that they should have any ownership on the battery chemistry/design.

But for a few years ago LG made some big headlines claiming that THEY had developed a battery that could give BEV's more then 200 miles range. And after that they soon conquered some new customers, and among them is GM. I was sure that they went to LG to get this exactly battery they had been advertising?

 

[Krugerrand]

My expectation is that the Model 3 base will beat the Bolt EV's range, even by just a few miles. The reason is not one of ego; it's the emotional aspect of purchase decisions.

No, it's ego: Pride and being able to say we are 'The Best' at what we do, which is making the most compelling EVs on the planet along with the associated sustainable energy ecosystem.

Everybody else had their chance to get on board The Secret Master Plan. They chose not to. GM only did the Bolt because of ego; so they could claim first to market with a long range affordable BEV. For no other reason. Had Tesla not advertised the specs for Model 3 years in advance, the Bolt would never have been made. So good on them for their claim to fame and the subsequent disappointing dealership sales resulting in the current shut down of that production line. Woohoo! They must be so proud of themselves.

 

[Krugerrand]

Yep.

I am going to buy the Model despite the sedan design. If I'm lucky I'll get to swap it out for a Model Y in a few years.

Same here. I'm buying a Model 3 no matter what. And I'll get a Model Y no matter what. I'd have an S and X now if not for their ginormous size - just too much aluminum for my needs therefore totally impractical and thus I chose to drive my ICEs into the ground and wait.

 

[Xenius]

Now, I've only read this page and the first post, but the really important part here isn't whether or not the Bolt has more/less range than the model 3.

The REALLY important part is how fast and easily can you refill the battery when you've used that range? My bet is on the nationwide supercharger network. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

Even IF the model 3 doesn't have as much range. The utility of having easy access to the supercharger network is a giant, almost insurmountable advantage that Tesla has, and that's at it's current state. They're still adding superchargers. That and IF (and yeah, big IF) the bolt has more range, it's not likely to be much.

There will be very few cases where someone with a 115 mile one way commute says "nah, I'll go bolt because the Model 3 has 220 miles".