Poll: Will hands free driving be a big win for Tesla?

[Zilla91]

I know what you meant but I still don’t see it happening, certainly not here in Europe.

Maybe in the US but even then I can’t see it happening in the next 24 months.

 

[2101Guy]

Well, maybe Elon did really believe, in his "optimism", that FSD would be safer than average human without driver supervision in 2021. But that was another false prediction. He has been consistently wrong about FSD.

True. I mean, it is the same Ceo who said q4 2022 delivery numbers would be “epic”….

 

[snorp]

Correct. She is saying that L2 should be hands-on and not exceed the speed the limit. That is also what I said she said.



No it does not. There is plenty of driving that is at or below the legal speed limit. I would also remind you that exceeding the legal speed limit is against the law. Sure there are exceptions but if the police catch you, you will get a ticket and could lose your license. Exceeding the speed limit is not some normal thing that you have to do when driving.

Reality doesn’t support your comments regarding the speed limit IMO, but I choose to agree to disagree rather than continue down this path. Maybe it’s regional.

 

[diplomat33]

Reality doesn’t support your comments regarding the speed limit IMO, but I choose to agree to disagree rather than continue down this path. Maybe it’s regional.

Yes, it might be regional. I do know that there are roads, like highways in LA, where everybody goes faster than the speed limit and so you have to do the same to keep up. But that is not the same everywhere.

 

[Supcom]

Yes, it might be regional. I do know that there are roads, like highways in LA, where everybody goes faster than the speed limit and so you have to do the same to keep up. But that is not the same everywhere.

Could you list some regions in the US where people do not exceed the speed limit on highways as a rule? I've driven on a lot of roads in the US and have found that where traffic permits, the prevailing speed on highways is 5-10 mph over the posted limit.

 

[diplomat33]

Could you list some regions in the US where people do not exceed the speed limit on highways as a rule? I've driven on a lot of roads in the US and have found that where traffic permits, the prevailing speed on highways is 5-10 mph over the posted limit.

As a rule, no. But I often drive on I-70 from Indiana to Ohio. Sometimes, I go +5 mph above the stated speed limit, based on traffic. But most of the time, I drive at the speed limit and cars just pass me. And during rush hour on 465 around Indy, you have to go +5 mph above speed limit to keep with traffic. But that is mostly during rush hour. During other hours when there is less traffic, you can usually go at the speed limit. And driving around my city of Terre Haute, I never exceed the speed limit.

Again, I am not saying that there are not cases where traffic exceeds the speed limit. But I don't agree that L2 that stays at the speed limit is completely useless.

 

[EVNow]

How about a Tesla steering wheel cover accessory that you plug into USB / CAN (or BT!) The sensors in the accessory makes sure you are holding the wheel, so no nags.

 

[Kablooie]

A company taking responsibility in an automated accident could lead to some sticky situations. If the driver is paying attention at all when a collision is imminent, they will instinctively grab the wheel to take over just before the crash. That could allow the company to claim it was the drivers fault. (Assuming the blame falls on the automated car. If the other car is at fault it doesn’t matter because they have to pay the costs.)

 

[Zilla91]

How about a Tesla steering wheel cover accessory that you plug into USB / CAN (or BT!) The sensors in the accessory makes sure you are holding the wheel, so no nags.

You mean a capacitive steering wheel like the kind VW, Merc and BMW have been putting on their cars for the last 5 years?

Ah, if only that kind of technology existed…

 

[2101Guy]

How about a Tesla steering wheel cover accessory that you plug into USB / CAN (or BT!) The sensors in the accessory makes sure you are holding the wheel, so no nags.

Yes. Maybe Elon can use Mercedes’ version then call it his own invention

 

[2101Guy]

A company taking responsibility in an automated accident could lead to some sticky situations. If the driver is paying attention at all when a collision is imminent, they will instinctively grab the wheel to take over just before the crash. That could allow the company to claim it was the drivers fault. (Assuming the blame falls on the automated car. If the other car is at fault it doesn’t matter because they have to pay the costs.)

True. I mean, no car company would agree to such an outlandish thing

 

[hgmichna]

I don't think Tesla should eliminate the steering wheel nags today. But I do wish for a reduction.

My favorite would be to reduce the required force, the turning momentum. It is unpleasantly, even dangerously high, so much so, that an unexpected or unnoticed autopilot deactivation leads to an immediate lane departure.

Ideal for me would be capacitive sensors that require no steering force at all.

Another good thing would be longer times between nags, but that is clearly not my favorite.

 

[JulienW]

How about a Tesla steering wheel cover accessory that you plug into USB / CAN (or BT!) The sensors in the accessory makes sure you are holding the wheel, so no nags.

If it looks this then am all in. Bonus: You get several inches of extra touch diameter.

 

[KArnold]

Why would Tesla assume financial responsibility for FSD, ADAS, or anything else if they don't have to? They won't.

It will have the "beta" level forever.

 

[GSP]

……..

And notice he doesnt call it "Full Self Driving Capability" nor "FSDb". He clearly says, Full Self-Driving. Nor does he say "will need assistance from the driver". Elon is quite clear in what he states. Many of you need to have more faith in his words vs attempting to constantly twist them..

Note that Tesla and Elon do call the system “Full Self Driving,” and do not call it “autonomous driving.” The car can fully drive itself as an advanced L2 system, with careful monitoring. However it is not autonomous. Only L3, L4, and L5 systems can drive without being monitored.

Elon has verbally expressed aspirations to make the existing fleet an autonomous robo-taxi fleet with a software update. However, Tesla’s official written information on FSD exactly matches the textbook definition of a non-autonomous L2 system.

GSP

 

[GSP]

As a rule, no. But I often drive on I-70 from Indiana to Ohio. Sometimes, I go +5 mph above the stated speed limit, based on traffic. But most of the time, I drive at the speed limit and cars just pass me. And during rush hour on 465 around Indy, you have to go +5 mph above speed limit to keep with traffic. But that is mostly during rush hour. During other hours when there is less traffic, you can usually go at the speed limit. And driving around my city of Terre Haute, I never exceed the speed limit.

Again, I am not saying that there are not cases where traffic exceeds the speed limit. But I don't agree that L2 that stays at the speed limit is completely useless.

You must be driving in an alternate universe version of the greater Indianapolis area. In my universe I-465 traffic is insane, with most cars going 10-15 over the 55 mph limit, and I am frequently passed by cars going 90+. I-70 is not as bad, but 5-10 mph over the 70 mph limit is the norm.

Note that if Missy Cummins had her way, the requirement to not exceed the speed limit would apply to ALL regions of the US, not just the ones where most people drive below the limit, or no more than 5 mph over. This would have a huge impact on traffic flow, road rage, and IMO make ADAS systems less safe.

GSP

 

[GSP]

@DanCar - I voted “No” based on the impact to my personal use of FSD. I always keep at least one hand on the wheel. This allows me to stop the car from suddenly swerving due to a hardware or software malfunction. With hands off the wheel, and a hard right or left input from a failed system, a car can be in the ditch before you can grab the wheel and correct it.

Hands on the wheel also provide constant input on what the car is doing, or about to do. Not until I have a fully autonomous L4 system, that is proven with hundreds of millions of miles of field data, and fully redundant hardware, will I take my hands off.

GSP

PS. Tesla does seem to have many redundant elements in their Autopilot system, including two custom neural net processors and two redundant circuits to control the steering wheel. However, I would want reassurance that the complete system is rudundant from one end to the other, including two different software systems.

 

[2101Guy]

Note that Tesla and Elon do call the system “Full Self Driving,” and do not call it “autonomous driving.” The car can fully drive itself as an advanced L2 system, with careful monitoring. However it is not autonomous. Only L3, L4, and L5 systems can drive without being monitored.

Elon has verbally expressed aspirations to make the existing fleet an autonomous robo-taxi fleet with a software update. However, Tesla’s official written information on FSD exactly matches the textbook definition of a non-autonomous L2 system.

GSP

there is someone on here who swears that Tesla nor Elon EVER call it "Full Self Driving", but I cant recall who.

 

[dramsey]

Disabling the steering wheel nags for experienced users is the first step towards eliminating them for all cars with cabin cameras. Tesla likely already has this on their radar and just needs a safe way to ease into it. Nobody likes the wheel nags, so eliminating them would be very welcome.

Cars that use cameras to gauge driver attention when an ADAS is engaged always put the cameras on the steering column, pointed directly at the driver. It's not clear to me that Tesla's cabin camera, mounted above the interior rear view mirror, can get a good enough view of the drivers eyes to work as well as these.

 

[dramsey]

Don't get distracted by these types of questions.

The question needs to be when Tesla will take liability for accidents when FSD/Autopilot is enabled. That's the key question that nobody is asking.

When they officially declare FSD to be SAE Level 3 autonomy. 'cause that's the dividing line.

Levels 0,1,2: You're the driver.
Level 3,4,5: The car is the driver.

Mercedes might beat Tesla to this:

Mercedes Preparing for Autonomous Driving in U.S. With Drive Pilot Level 3

We drive, or more correctly are driven, by a Mercedes-Benz EQS in Germany (where it is legal).

www.motortrend.com