Porsche Mission E

[dsm363]

Porsche Announces BEV Concept Car - "Mission E"

The sports minded crowd is Tesla's to lose. Too singular a focus on Autopilot, and it'll go away.

Maybe but it's a small market. Most people seem to be happy with 3 second acceleration in family sedan. True track car performance is rarely used. Tesla is building a new Roadster in 2019 or so might tackle this anyway.

 

[Stoneymonster]

The sports minded crowd is Tesla's to lose. Too singular a focus on Autopilot, and it'll go away.

Tesla has used the sports minded crowd as a bootstrap to the mass market. They haven't been shy about this either. People who expect them to be the new Porsche will be disappointed in a few years.

 

[EnglishManInNY]

I hear the Porsche Mission E is def going to be produced and no later than 2018.

 

[ecarfan]

Porsche Announces BEV Concept Car - "Mission E"

Source please. To say "I hear..." does not convince me.

 

[dsm363]

I hear the Porsche Mission E is def going to be produced and no later than 2018.

Even if that is true the odds of this being a volume production car is low. My guess is they sell maybe a few thousand a year at best. Still a good looking car.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

Even if that is true the odds of this being a volume production car is low. My guess is they sell maybe a few thousand a year at best. Still a good looking car.

Agree but main thing is that Porsche starts producing electric cars. Hopefully other cheaper Models of electric cars will be produced by Porsche and also other European automakers.

 

[Chris TX]

Even if that is true the odds of this being a volume production car is low. My guess is they sell maybe a few thousand a year at best. Still a good looking car.

But think of the trickle down with R&D. What will this mean for VW/Audi/Lambo/Bentley/RR, etc? I mean, it's not like they're going to keep pushing the diesels

 

[Rashomon]

I hear the Porsche Mission E is def going to be produced and no later than 2018.

I talked to a colleague at Porsche the other day, and he told me that no official decision has been made yet, but the expectation within the company is that it will be produced. There is probably as much concern within the company in nailing technical targets (weight, range, no foldback during during hard running -- unlike Tesla, etc.) as in a marketing decision. They've done a lot of work on pack design in the last two-three years. The packs for the winning Le Mans racers were done in house, not by a specialist, as were the ones for the currently available plug-in hybrids. Porsche has committed to an all electrified future (it's the only way they can meet CO2 limits in Germany), and in some ways the next 911 will be more important than the Mission E. It's expected to offer in at least one version a variant of the 918 parallel-hybrid drivetrain, and that one will probably have a not insignificant (30-60km) range in all electric mode. It's going to be a long time before you can have reasonable range on the autobahn with an all-electric, even if you can get the CdA down to 0.5m2. Note that Tesla sales still lag in Germany, and it's not all because of German automotive conservatism. At 250 kph, physics demands you go through a 100kWh pack in about 45 minutes unless your aerodynamics are far beyond what's considered acceptable styling by most consumers of high-end vehicles. In that regard, the Mercedes aerodynamic exercise at Frankfurt was perhaps more important than the Porsche or Audi electric showcars.

 

[Canuck]

Tesla is building a new Roadster in 2019 or so...

I can't wait for that vehicle! Is there any official or semi-official confirmation on this, or just rumours?

 

[Mr X]

Will be nice to have as a 1/18 on my desk while I drive a Tesla.

 

[dsm363]

I can't wait for that vehicle! Is there any official or semi-official confirmation on this, or just rumours?

Elon talked about it having 'Maximum Plaid' mode when he announced Ludicrous mode. Believe that's the first official confirmation it is even being worked on.

 

[ecarfan]

Elon talked about it having 'Maximum Plaid' mode when he announced Ludicrous mode. Believe that's the first official confirmation it is even being worked on.

Quote: "There is of course only one thing beyond ludicrous, but that speed is reserved for the next generation Roadster in 4 years: maximum plaid."
Posted at Three Dog Day | Tesla Motors
So if you want to believe that timeframe, it will be 2019.

 

[lolachampcar]

The whole BackEMF discussion on another thread made me go Duh!
Porsche is looking for low end acceleration and high speed performance in a single speed (if they had any sense) application.
The best way to do this is with a very high voltage battery. The C discharge rate is lowered while operating range of the motor is increased.

The above approach requires switching electronics for much higher voltages with can be troublesome. It also requires that cell quality is good as any single failure would have a dramatic impact on battery capacity.

 

[stopcrazypp]

The whole BackEMF discussion on another thread made me go Duh!
Porsche is looking for low end acceleration and high speed performance in a single speed (if they had any sense) application.
The best way to do this is with a very high voltage battery. The C discharge rate is lowered while operating range of the motor is increased.

This is a common misconception. The per-cell C discharge rate does not change by configuring a pack at a higher operating voltage. For example, Tesla can also make a double voltage pack by changing the 96 in Series 74 in parallel to 192 in Series 37 in parallel. Nominal voltage would go from 345.6V to 691.2V, however the amount of cells in parallel is halved. That means for the same amount of power, the C rate at the cell level is unchanged. For example: to pull 518kW the current pack would pull 1500A, which is 20A per cell. The higher voltage pack would pull 750A for the same power, which also is 20A per cell.

You do get some efficiency advantages with the higher voltage, but that is all you get. The C rate at the cell level doesn't really change much. And given the C rate is also relative to the Ah capacity of the pack, it also does not change at the pack level either.

 

[lolachampcar]

yes, agreed

 

[Spidy]

The first 100% electrically powered Porsche is on its way. It will be launched at the end of the decade. The supervisory board of the Porsche AG today gave the green light for the Mission E project.

Green light for Porsche Mission E

 

[ohmman]

Uwe Hück, Chairman of the Central Works Council and Deputy Chairman of the Porsche AG Supervisory Board: "A day to celebrate! Yes, we did it! We brought Mission E to Zuffenhausen and Weissach where the future has tradition. The workers' side made the employer's side an offer that they couldn't refuse. This heralds the dawn of a new age in Zuffenhausen and Weissach. Digitalisation will be growing up with us. And Factory 4.0 will be a major challenge for the workforce, trade union and employer. We will be taking new approaches but not giving up on the social aspects. With today's decision, Porsche is driving flat out with no speed restrictions into the automotive and industrial future."

Something lost in translation there.

Either way, great news.

 

[jerjozwik]

lol, is that really how german paragraphs translate?

 

[Spidy]

Something lost in translation there.

Either way, great news.

Not sure where the issue is. Union is happy that the car "of the future" will be build at the main factory as other locations were probably also discussed.

 

[dauger]

The first 100% electrically powered Porsche is on its way. It will be launched at the end of the decade. The supervisory board of the Porsche AG today gave the green light for the Mission E project.

Green light for Porsche Mission E

Good link.

Nice that Porsche will build and sell a Mission E, but I have a problem with Porsche. Where is their committment to:

a price
annual production rate
a charging network (one 800V charger is not a network)

To recoup a $1B investment, the price of the car is surely high. Isn't the $800k+ Spyder 918 a "fascinating sports car" meant to define a "front-row position" too? So in 2020, Porsche will make its first long-range BEV, like the 2008 Tesla Roadster. So Tesla will have 12 years more experience building, selling, and maintaining a BEV fleet than Porsche. In 2021, my next car will still be a Tesla.