Porsche Taycan - I think I have nearly worn out the configurator

[TheManofMead]

I have recently been on there so many times putting together so many configurations. So many choices, choices, and more choices it's bewildering.

Porsche and Tesla are literally different ends of the spectrum.

Typically after you have saved your Porsche configuration you remember that one item you should have added...or forgot to add this time...or which seems more important to add this time compared to yesterday.

I think I'm going to end my days in a home for the terminally bewildered.

 

[browellm]

Similar for the i-Pace.

 

[pgkevet]

..and notice how the price cranks up,...

 

[browellm]

The base Taycan performance is pretty underwhelming, imo. Not sure I'd want to drop minimum £70k on a sports car with a 0-100km of 5.4s. I know it's a great handling car, but come on.

 

[TheManofMead]

The base Taycan performance is pretty underwhelming, imo. Not sure I'd want to drop minimum £70k on a sports car with a 0-100km of 5.4s. I know it's a great handling car, but come on.

As Tesla owners I think we so quickly forget how breathtakingly fast 5.4s....once we have been used to 4.4, 3.2, 3.1, 2.6 etc. Even with 5.4 you are going to leave 99.9% way behind moving off at the lights!

 

[browellm]

As Tesla owners I think we so quickly forget how breathtakingly fast 5.4s....once we have been used to 4.4, 3.2, 3.1, 2.6 etc. Even with 5.4 you are going to leave 99.9% way behind moving off at the lights!

My 40 grand diseasel does 0-60 in 5.6s

 

[Dilly]

As Tesla owners I think we so quickly forget how breathtakingly fast 5.4s....once we have been used to 4.4, 3.2, 3.1, 2.6 etc. Even with 5.4 you are going to leave 99.9% way behind moving off at the lights!

The 0.01% being Tesla’s

 

[Peteski]

As Tesla owners I think we so quickly forget how breathtakingly fast 5.4s....once we have been used to 4.4, 3.2, 3.1, 2.6 etc. Even with 5.4 you are going to leave 99.9% way behind moving off at the lights!

But you can’t ever go back! Even my MX 75D can manage 4.9 sec. Yes it feels pretty quick, but there’s no way I’m going to be happy with a premium Porsche sports car that can’t even match my *sugar*-hauling 7 seater family HGV! Never mind that my wife’s Model 3 will completely blow it away. But I’m sure it will tick the box for the badge admirers.

 

[jmaddr]

All those saying the Porsche is slow. Remember the Porsche has a two speed transmission. I'd bet it's much better at passing than the Teslas, and likely more efficient at typical interstate speeds. There is a place for both for sure (but I'm not getting rid of mine)

 

[Peteski]

All those saying the Porsche is slow. Remember the Porsche has a two speed transmission. I'd bet it's much better at passing than the Teslas, and likely more efficient at typical interstate speeds. There is a place for both for sure (but I'm not getting rid of mine)

I wonder what effect that has on 40-80 mph acceleration? Beyond that I don’t really care. Overtaking in a Tesla has never been a problem IME. I had presumed the 2 speed box would be an advantage only when well into 3 digit speeds. So only applicable in Germany unless you like porridge. Strikes me as an unnecessary complication. I remember Tesla considered using a 2 speed box in the original Roadster and then dropped it.

Still a good point to make. Are there any accel figures available to compare across the speed range? 40-60, 50-70 etc would be nice to see.

 

[browellm]

I thought the base model wasn't getting the 2-speed transmission, or did I dream that?

 

[MrBadger]

When I dabbled in these things*, I never bothered with 0-60 times. For me, the more important metric was 30-60, ie overtaking territory. As above hinted, I bet the difference in this range between Porsche and a Tesla is much closer than on paper figures may suggest, as is LR vs Performance Model 3.

* I rebuilt a 73 MGB GT that whilst was not a match for an RS Turbo (in those days was the car to beat) off the line, on a fast country road it could keep it very honest, helped by its handling - and totally docile as a daily city commute. As a mate of mine who raced cars once said, my car was very well sorted. When you get hands on with a full on rebuild, even the most comprehensive modern vehicle configurators had nothing on the scores of parts catalogues.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

Anyone claiming that, say, a 4 second to 60mph time has any real world advantage over, say a car that has a 5 second 0 to 60mph time needs to have a look at something like the Teslamate (or other similar logging app) data. There is one stretch of road locally where I play the "how much power can I put down" game. I've never managed to hold maximum power for more than two seconds, often the peak is less than 1 second. The reason is simple, the car exceeds the speed limit far too quickly.

The only standing start acceleration figure that really matters, and then only for those who enjoy the traffic light grand prix, is really the standing start to about 30mph time. The majority of traffic lights are in speed restricted areas, anyway. The most important figure is probably the 30mph to 50mph acceleration time, as that is key to safe overtaking, minimising the time exposed to danger. Most EVs tend to be pretty good in this regard, even those with quite modest performance.

 

[Peteski]

I agree it’s not the 0-60 that is really important. But it is the only metric regularly quoted in comparison and hints pretty strongly at relative performance, at least up to 60 mph. It would indeed be very interesting to see incremental acceleration times for this base Taycan vs Tesla, but I’m betting it will not change the story very much. At least not at UK legal speeds. For the Porsche to be faster from say 40-60 would imply it was even slower from 0-40 if you get what I mean.

 

[jmaddr]

For the model 3, field weakening (the speed at which where the power drops off) is about 40 mph as shown here:
Tesla Performance Model 3 Dyno Testing At Various SOC | Mountain Pass Performance
This is the part I'm not clear on and is based on my interpretation. If the torque is dropping from 40mph and upwards, and the drag is proportional with the square of speed, that means much moe "throttle input" will be needed to accelerate and maintain speed. This results in the motor will working harder and harder becoming less efficient (I see evidence of this with a 10% extra hit on 80mph vs 65) and less powerful (affecting 40-80 passing times).

Now, if the two speed transmission allows this field weakening point to move higher, say from 40mph to 80 mph...then we have something...a real world car which can enjoy full torque from 0-80 and not just 0-40, resulting quicker 40-80 times. And a car that has less of an efficiency drop at higher speeds. Thoughts?

 

[Peteski]

For the model 3, field weakening (the speed at which where the power drops off) is about 40 mph as shown here:
Tesla Performance Model 3 Dyno Testing At Various SOC | Mountain Pass Performance
This is the part I'm not clear on and is based on my interpretation. If the torque is dropping from 40mph and upwards, and the drag is proportional with the square of speed, that means much moe "throttle input" will be needed to accelerate and maintain speed. This results in the motor will working harder and harder becoming less efficient (I see evidence of this with a 10% extra hit on 80mph vs 65) and less powerful (affecting 40-80 passing times).

Now, if the two speed transmission allows this field weakening point to move higher, say from 40mph to 80 mph...then we have something...a real world car which can enjoy full torque from 0-80 and not just 0-40, resulting quicker 40-80 times. And a car that has less of an efficiency drop at higher speeds. Thoughts?

Without seeing any real numbers it’s hard to conclude. Meanwhile here is a Model 3 comfortably keeping pace with a Taycan 4S (not the base model) around the Ring.

Tesla Model 3 Performance Vs Porsche Taycan 4S Lapping Nürburgring

 

[MrBadger]

For the Porsche to be faster from say 40-60 would imply it was even slower from 0-40 if you get what I mean.

Depends on how its geared vs speed and how quick the shift is.

I had a car that could cover 0-60 in 1st and 2nd gear. But it could cover 40-60 (and carry on going) in 3rd quicker than it could cover the same in 2nd. Covering the 0-60 using the first 3 gears was slower than using first 2 because of the additional shift. All just a numbers game though as it was pretty obvious that car was geared to get the 0-60 time in 2nd as that ran out of revs at 62.

If the Taycan could cover the 40-60 in 'high', it may well cover that range quicker than it could in 'low'. So it then comes down to whether the 0-60 times include a gear shift, what that, if any, may have on timing, and the torque available.

 

[Peteski]

But it could cover 40-60 (and carry on going) in 3rd quicker than it could cover the same in 2nd
.

That statement doesn’t make much sense. Even in race cars with highly strung engines and super close ratios I’ve never come across a gear setup where the engine torque drop-off at the top end rev range was bigger than the torque drop at the wheels from shifting up into the next gear. In other words maximum acceleration is achieved by red-lining every gear rather than short shifting at peak engine torque.

From the little I’ve read about the Taycan, I believe it uses its lower gear only up to around 60 mph, therefore giving it a torque advantage in that speed range over a Tesla, which requires a higher single gear. In simple terms the Tesla is effectively setting off in the equivalent of second gear, while the Taycan has a lower additional first gear to maximise torque at the road wheels.

Also when the Taycan shifts into its higher gear at 60, it will then actually lose its inherent torque advantage over the Tesla. Especially so if it’s geared for a higher max speed

 

[Neilio]

I never understood the obsession with 0-60 times. Especially in large saloon cars like the Taycan and the Model S. Smaller cars I get, hot hatches and the like. Also sports cars but it seems a strange obsession on a car that is probably going to be used for long range cruises or family days out.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

I never understood the obsession with 0-60 times. Especially in large saloon cars like the Taycan and the Model S. Smaller cars I get, hot hatches and the like. Also sports cars but it seems a strange obsession on a car that is probably going to be used for long range cruises or family days out.

Me too. We have a national speed limit of 60mph, and very few locations where there aren't intermediate, lower, speed limits in any area where a standing start is likely. There are very few locations here where anyone can legally go from a standstill to 60mph.

As mentioned before, IMHO the important figure is the mid range acceleration, the sort of speeds where overtaking on single carriageway roads can be made safer. As there is a blanket 60mph speed limit on all these roads, then it seems to me that it's the 30mph to 60mph acceleration that is the more useful figure to know. There's a very real benefit in reducing the time exposed to danger, so much so that it's a topic that's taught on the advanced motoring course.