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Portable 22 kW Type 2 charging equipment

mknox

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2012
10,103
1,868
Toronto, ON
That is the one thing that sucks about living in a 120 volt country...slower charging.

Three phase is ubiquitous throughout North America, so there's no reason we couldn't. (except at the residential level). It's also too bad Tesla didn't implement a more standard charge port in North America like they did in Europe so that third-party solutions like this could be had.
 

ElectricTundra

P85D AP1
Feb 5, 2015
916
409
Tundra
It's also too bad Tesla didn't implement a more standard charge port in North America like they did in Europe so that third-party solutions like this could be had.
Noooooo. The Tesla solution is small, simple, and elegant (and locks). It works extremely well. Other solutions are heavy and bulky.

- - - Updated - - -

That is the one thing that sucks about living in a 120 volt country...slower charging.
Not really. They have higher voltage but often lower amperage available. The higher voltage allows them to use smaller and less expensive wire sizes and connectors (except UK which confuses me). I've done a lot of production work there and trying to find enough power for lighting and other stuff is generally far more difficult than in the U.S.
 

David99

Active Member
Jan 31, 2014
4,850
7,026
Brea, Orange County
Noooooo. The Tesla solution is small, simple, and elegant (and locks). It works extremely well. Other solutions are heavy and bulky.

Not really. They have higher voltage but often lower amperage available. The higher voltage allows them to use smaller and less expensive wire sizes and connectors (except UK which confuses me). I've done a lot of production work there and trying to find enough power for lighting and other stuff is generally far more difficult than in the U.S.

The plug used in Europe is not much bigger. It's not bulky and heavy. In fact, the stupid law here that EV have to have a 'charging station' between the car and the outlet is making things much more bulky and more expensive than necessary. In Europe, you have a cable that goes from the car to the plug. In the US, you need a $500 box like the UMC or something similar.

In the US 110 Volt is standard at 15 Amp, maybe (if you're lucky) 20 Amp. In Europe the standard outlet is 230 Volt 16 Amp. So that's more than twice as fast. Since you have double the voltage, you don't have to use thicker cables. The exact same cable width you would need in the US to connect 110 Volt at 15 Amp would be transferring 230 Volt 16 Amp in Europe. On top of it, they don't need the bulky UMC. So it's clearly lighter and less bulky in Europe.

The max charge rate in the US is 19.6 kW, in the Europe 22 kW. The plug needed for 22 kW charging is a very common three phase plug, very easy to install.
 

mknox

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2012
10,103
1,868
Toronto, ON
Doesn't Texas have 240 volts?
Everywhere else in the US seems to have it.

North American residential systems typically use a 120/240 volt, 3-wire split phase system. Each leg to neutral delivers 120 volts while leg to leg delivers 240 volts (being 180 degrees out of phase). In certain areas like condominium buildings you will get 120/208 volts at the utilization point. This is because the building will have a 120/208 volt 3-phase, 4-wire system and the residential unit will get 2 phases and a neutral. Phase to neutral yields 120 volts, but phase to phase gives you only 208 volts because they are 120 degrees out of phase.
 

mspohr

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2014
9,650
11,496
California
North American residential systems typically use a 120/240 volt, 3-wire split phase system. Each leg to neutral delivers 120 volts while leg to leg delivers 240 volts (being 180 degrees out of phase). In certain areas like condominium buildings you will get 120/208 volts at the utilization point. This is because the building will have a 120/208 volt 3-phase, 4-wire system and the residential unit will get 2 phases and a neutral. Phase to neutral yields 120 volts, but phase to phase gives you only 208 volts because they are 120 degrees out of phase.
This is good information (which I already knew) but the real question is "Why does this guy in Texas think he only has 120volts?"
 

FlasherZ

Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv
Jun 21, 2012
7,028
1,014
Three phase is ubiquitous throughout North America, so there's no reason we couldn't. (except at the residential level). It's also too bad Tesla didn't implement a more standard charge port in North America like they did in Europe so that third-party solutions like this could be had.

I don't know that I would call it ubiquitous - available, perhaps, but there are many small offices that only receive a single/split-phase installation. In addition, the 3-phase configurations differ so much that you couldn't guarantee a good, standard-driven recommendation and we have to leave it to a custom install. Corner-grounded delta, split-phase delta w/ stinger, wye, etc...

I suppose there's a big benefit to having a much smaller grid and a nationalized power company.
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
6,445
7,675
Boise, ID
This is good information (which I already knew) but the real question is "Why does this guy in Texas think he only has 120volts?"

Possibly because there are usually only 1 or 2 240V outlets at a house, and they are usually not very accessible? That actually makes perfect sense to say it that way, when all of the outlets you can fairly easily get to are 120V. It’s contrasting it to how ALL of the outlets in those European countries are 230V.
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,375
6,079
Los Altos, CA
The plug used in Europe is not much bigger. It's not bulky and heavy. In fact, the stupid law here that EV have to have a 'charging station' between the car and the outlet is making things much more bulky and more expensive than necessary. In Europe, you have a cable that goes from the car to the plug. In the US, you need a $500 box like the UMC or something similar.

In the US 110 Volt is standard at 15 Amp, maybe (if you're lucky) 20 Amp. In Europe the standard outlet is 230 Volt 16 Amp. So that's more than twice as fast. Since you have double the voltage, you don't have to use thicker cables. The exact same cable width you would need in the US to connect 110 Volt at 15 Amp would be transferring 230 Volt 16 Amp in Europe. On top of it, they don't need the bulky UMC. So it's clearly lighter and less bulky in Europe.

The max charge rate in the US is 19.6 kW, in the Europe 22 kW. The plug needed for 22 kW charging is a very common three phase plug, very easy to install.
If you want to charge a European Tesla, you still need an EVSE like a UMC. You make it sound like you don't. However, your point that the baseline European household outlet can deliver more power than the equivalent American one is well taken.
 

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