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Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
They should limit the speed to the speed limit also, have you seen how many videos there are of people racing cars over the speed limit!!!!!! Somebody is going to get killed!!! <end sarcasm>
Driver's are 100% responsible to use how ever they want. I don't need a nanny car.
Driver's are 100% responsible to use how ever they want. I don't need a nanny car.
Emphasis added to both quotes.
I assume the reference is to the YouTube video, "Tesla AutoPilot tried to kill me".
The video is short, but to maximize efficiency you can start watching in the middle. This will give you a few seconds to acclimate before the critical scene.
In that scene, simultaneously listen to the car and watch the steering wheel. The audible warning to the driver that the autopilot has disconnected and the driver must assert control begins before the wheel is "jerked" to the left. It begins as the wheel is moving slightly left, and then, as the driver's hands are off the wheel and the steering is uncontrolled, it happens to turn farther left.
It takes a second or so for the driver to respond. There was no collision; no one was killed nor injured.
Edit: here's a link from another thread to the same video, but slowed down during the critical scene. This one makes it clear that there would have been no collision even if the driver delayed longer in reasserting control.
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They could adjust it. Don't see them pulling it at all. a dot release could link to GPS and only allow it on freeways - or perhaps limit its function to highway speeds (not to be confused with the limiting speed!!! Speeding does NOT cause accidents!). And as for the jackass that was in the backseat driving, I don't even know how this is possible unless he put a brink in the front seat to trick the car into believing it had a driver.
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Thank you! I hate the fact that people see one video, don't understand what really happens, then tries to predict/regulate/nanny everyone else. It really infuriates me. The car is doing EXACTLY what it is supposed to there. It loses confidence in the road, alerts the driver and removes the applied torque from the wheel. This is exactly what we would expect. AutoPilot IS NOT steering into oncoming traffic or anything of the sorts, and it is frankly discouraging that other owners can't think critically about this.
What would you rather have AutoPilot do? Keep applying torque even though it didn't know where the lanes were? That would be even worse!
When TACC was released, we had some of the same discussions. It was clear that many people used TACC for city driving even though Tesla suggested that you shouldn't. Several people reported near misses and there were even a few videos. Some people predicted Tesla would prevent us from using TACC on surface streets and others predicted doom and gloom for either the stock price or litigation following terrible accidents. Neither happened. I predict this will be much the same situation.
ToddRLockwood
Active Member
The most important Autopilot features are those related to accident avoidance: automatic braking, adaptive cruise control, vehicle awareness, lane awareness. Lane-keeping is a nifty trick to show your friends, but I predict that most drivers will tire of it because of the oversight required.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Let me address a few points. For the "troll" accusations, I think you have to excuse members for the paranoia, but recently it has been justified. There was a thread also about autopilot safety where the OP was caught as actually being a troll (using a fake persona to do "concern trolling"). That thread has since been removed just today. I'm sure that thread is still fresh in most people's minds.
You simply match the characteristic: your first post and thread on TMC is one that suggests a recent Tesla feature is unsafe, should be severely limited in functionality, and may have side-skirted regulation. That naturally rings alarm bells in a lot of people here, no matter if it is justified for not.
Now putting that aside, I'm going to directly address your points.
1) Tesla has been publicly adamant that autopilot is not autonomous driving and that all legal responsibility falls on the driver. Elon even suggested owners to should keep their hands on the wheel for this version. It's pretty clear that the driver should be ready to take over at any time and the car has visual and auditory cues when it needs you to do that.
2) The car has warning messages both for first activation (after update install) and subsequent activation of the feature. Why do you feel this is not sufficient (given you are an owner with the option you have seen both messages already)? What changes to the specific message do you suggest if not?
3) Tesla is not the first to offer auto-steering, even one where you can keep your hands off for extended periods of time. The Infiniti Q50 allows you to do that too (difference is that "ping pongs" and it doesn't allow lane changing with a flick of the turn signal).
4) The same warnings about danger was talked about when TACC/AEBS came out, even a thread about an accident that was caused by a user misunderstanding the limitations of the system. There was no ban of TACC/AEBS as a result or a pulling back of functionality. Rather, people used the system more and became more familiar with the limitations, which made them safer, not less safe.
5) Tesla is awaiting regulatory approval for releases in Europe and Asia, so it is baseless to suggest that Tesla didn't have regulatory approval to release here (assuming it is even required).
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vitaliy
Member
Tesla launched Autopilot for highways. So they say. But intention was to collect the data about all roads. I think that as soon as they collect enough to data about rarely used roads, they will restrict usage to highways only. After 3-6 month of improving autopilot they allow all roads again.
Due to the videos I am witnessing online, I truly feel there will be a Cruise Control related vehicle crash soon. This is because people simply cannot follow directions, and it affects the safety of not only themselves- but everyone on the road. There is even a video of a complete fool filming while using it in a residential area.
I feel regulators will force all carmakers to pull the feature until it can be modified/improved to the point it requires feet-on only operation, and more bugs are worked out. I also think it should use GPS to disable Cruise Control unless its on a known freeway or highway, and not on surface streets. Think about the other idiot who was driving on a curvy and Cruise Control almost killed him and the passengers in the other lane. This is like handing a loading weapon to Simple Jack from Tropic Thunder.
Too many idiots are going to mess this up for all of us. My prediction, enjoy the Cruise Control function- because its not going to last.
Also, this post is FUD and its logic doesn't work 99% of the time for other car features that similarly can be, and have been, abused. Just throwing that in there too.
I feel regulators will force all carmakers to pull the feature until it can be modified/improved to the point it requires feet-on only operation, and more bugs are worked out. I also think it should use GPS to disable Cruise Control unless its on a known freeway or highway, and not on surface streets. Think about the other idiot who was driving on a curvy and Cruise Control almost killed him and the passengers in the other lane. This is like handing a loading weapon to Simple Jack from Tropic Thunder.
Too many idiots are going to mess this up for all of us. My prediction, enjoy the Cruise Control function- because its not going to last.
Also, this post is FUD and its logic doesn't work 99% of the time for other car features that similarly can be, and have been, abused. Just throwing that in there too.
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Days like this I really hate this forum... Providing tons of ammo for know nothing reporters to write stories about the $130,000.00 death trap that's known to randomly catch fire, crash into stopped cars, and now even steer you into your certain death... Except none of that is true.
The car deals with mathematical equations, not human perception. Yes, it may have LOOKED like you may have crashed into that car stopped at the light, but did it? Nope. Not once. Ever. The autopilot when used AS INTENDED is great and getting better. Tesla cannot Force people to use the vehicle as intended. If they could be held responsible for that, no car ever made in United States would exceed 80 mph. And yet we have high-speed crashes all the time on vehicles that are capable of doing over 100 mph, With no liability to the car manufacturers.
Enough with all the chicken little nonsense please.
The car deals with mathematical equations, not human perception. Yes, it may have LOOKED like you may have crashed into that car stopped at the light, but did it? Nope. Not once. Ever. The autopilot when used AS INTENDED is great and getting better. Tesla cannot Force people to use the vehicle as intended. If they could be held responsible for that, no car ever made in United States would exceed 80 mph. And yet we have high-speed crashes all the time on vehicles that are capable of doing over 100 mph, With no liability to the car manufacturers.
Enough with all the chicken little nonsense please.
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Tesla could add a button to the dash that says "do not push or car will explode!" but eventually someone somewhere would push it. There is a quote from Pirates of the Caribbean, "think of them as more guidelines than actual rules." People will push the limits just because they can. And theres people who want to be the cool guy/girl on YouTube who did that crazy stunt that got all the views and notoriety. It's not a Tesla problem, for better or worse its human nature. Now personally if I did have a model s with autopilot I sure as hell would be obeying the rules considering I'm in a car that can easily cost 6 figures. But that's just me.
What is your trick? There is a big thread about it, and many people cannot get it to work - or hardly ever. I have tried in about 20 different spaces and only had it work once. My friend who has an S85 gave up after the 10th try. Definitely look forward to improved software releases in the future for this, because as it stands- i'll stick to parking on my own so I don't hold up traffic trying to get it to work.
You are overreacting in an almost conspiracy-theory type of mindset. No one is trying to incite a PR nightmare by making a simple question for big boys to discuss. I see many disagree and thats totally fine. In no way is it some type of motive to make it anything more then it seems. *puts tin foil hat away*
For the people that did coherently read my OP, it has more of a theory to do with people who are being reckless and not following the directions and posting videos of dangerous situations. These people are the ones who probably look down the barrel of a loaded gun to see if it has a bullet in the chamber. I think it works pretty well for being so new, but the idiots out there using it in the wrong place and wrong time jeopardize the feature for the rest of us. All it will take is one idiot who gets in an accident (which we have seen proof on YouTube of such idiots) to possibly force Tesla to pull the feature until it can be polished a little more.
roblab
Active Member
I think they will take AP away... from all those that publish sensationalist stories and videos. And maybe from anyone that has an "accident" (which is usually poor and unsafe behavior that ends in damage). I don't think they'll bother the rest of us.
jeffro01
Active Member
You have 12 posts... TWELVE and your first thread is some dumb controversy stirring debate on something that isn't going to happen and your calling me the conspiracy theory guy? Yikes...
Jeff
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It'd be interesting to see if Tesla try's to take any steps against people it can positively identify doing stuff with AP that is dangerous and against the spirit of the functionality...
Jeff
Do you feel all car manufactures should recall all cars and install 85MPH speed limiters, because some people drive recklessly fast?
Should all cars be recalled, and have two-hands-on-the-wheel-at-all-times sensors installed, because some people can't stop themselves from texting?
Should all cars be pulled and modified so they will not start if there are any engine or brake system warning lights on, because that car is clearly unsafe to drive?
Should all cars with non traffic aware cruise control be pulled off the road immediately and have that feature removed, because it can cause a collision if the car infant of it slows down and the driver is not paying attention?
People fail to follow warnings and directions every day in every car model. And they cause many more accidents than auto pilot features on Tesla ever will.
No-one can can stop people from texting or fiddling with the radio while driving, but if the car can basically take over for short periods and sound an alarm if anything it can't handle occurs, that person has a much lower chance of having an accident.
Welcome to the forums.
I agree that there are a lot of idiots out there and it is only natural that some Tesla supporters would feel nervous about the risks of releasing AutoPilot functions that are in Beta test when we have so many foolish people behind the wheel in the first place.
However, ultimately that's the whole point, isn't it? That is, to mitigate the harm that foolish and impared drivers may do by being behind the wheel. If the driving public was without fault there would be little reason to pursue these Driver Assist features in the first place.
Whereas I appreciate your concern, I am critical of your immediate conclusion that AutoSteer almost killed the "driver" and passengers in the video that you cite. Your knee-jerk reaction without a more careful review of the facts is short sighted and it is simply not helpful to conclude from that single incident that the function needs to be removed.
Unless Tesla itself discovers a truly serious flaw in their software, not a bunch of avid forum members Monday Morning Quarterbacking YouTube videos, it is not likely this firmware is going to be pulled.
One thing that should be noted is that the Tesla implementation of AutoPilot is radically different from the competition. The entire fleet of Teslas are continuously connected to the Tesla mothership. In essentially real time the fleet is gathering high definition mapping information and the AutoPilot software is being trained by the human drivers. With every day that this Beta test proceeds the quality of the data improves. Those improvements occur continuously even between major firmware updates.
Larry
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