Pulled over driving Model S

[FlasherZ]

I suspect what we might be running into is similar to the California laws related to bringing a vehicle in. A California resident must possess a valid temporary California registration for a car in his/her name within 15 days of the vehicle arriving in-state (at least I recall it being 15 days).

Technically, in some states it may be illegal to operate a vehicle with a California temp tag for more than a short period of time, because the laws may state that residents of the state must have a local registration within <x> days.

I was lucky in that Tesla delivered my car with an IL temp tag, so I didn't have to deal with it. For those who had issues with the California temp tag, I've heard several times that it would have been far more beneficial for Tesla to provide the MSO/MCO and let the owner go to the DMV.

 

[andrewket]

I would very much prefer to receive the MCO and deal with the DMV on my own.


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[brianman]

pigs on patrol..

Counterproductive and offensive to some.

 

[efusco]

I would very much prefer to receive the MCO and deal with the DMV on my own.


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No kidding. I'm sure Tesla thought they were providing a service, but it's just complicating an otherwise easy quick process.


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[childressmd]

... most pigs on patrol ... pulled over and hassled ... us East Coasters being harassed.

Wow.

Can't imagine why LEOs would have a problem with unfamiliar paperwork on a car with a VIN they can't validate.

 

[raptorweb]

My 2 cents... Ignorance on the part of the driver, to the law, is not an excuse they will accept so I will not accept any less from an officer.

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[wycolo]

> I've heard several times that it would have been far more beneficial for Tesla to provide the MSO/MCO and let the owner go to the DMV. [FlasherZ]

Of course, but methinks there is a 'method to their madness' going on here. I'm past 75 days without my MSO/MCO from TM. I do not *own* this car yet. Thus I cannot sell it. So TM Sales not facing a lot of turn-around competition. This ~90 day 'cooling off period' aids TM by reducing competition as well as giving new owners time to get to love the S. Such that they could not bring themselves to sell it, even at a tasty profit.

> pigs on patrol..

Pigs cruising for burgers? Better??
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[andrewket]

> I've heard several times that it would have been far more beneficial for Tesla to provide the MSO/MCO and let the owner go to the DMV. [FlasherZ]

Of course, but methinks there is a 'method to their madness' going on here. I'm past 75 days without my MSO/MCO from TM. I do not *own* this car yet. Thus I cannot sell it. So TM Sales not facing a lot of turn-around competition. This ~90 day 'cooling off period' aids TM by reducing competition as well as giving new owners time to get to love the S. Such that they could not bring themselves to sell it, even at a tasty profit.
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If that's the reason for the delay then I'm disappointed in Tesla. This would be straight out manipulation. I'll give Tesla the benefit of the doubt and say that the team handling the paperwork is understaffed and just behind. Add in the fact that that they are dealing with a new process * 50 states.

 

[efusco]

> I've heard several times that it would have been far more beneficial for Tesla to provide the MSO/MCO and let the owner go to the DMV. [FlasherZ]

Of course, but methinks there is a 'method to their madness' going on here. I'm past 75 days without my MSO/MCO from TM. I do not *own* this car yet. Thus I cannot sell it. So TM Sales not facing a lot of turn-around competition. This ~90 day 'cooling off period' aids TM by reducing competition as well as giving new owners time to get to love the S. Such that they could not bring themselves to sell it, even at a tasty profit.

> pigs on patrol..

Pigs cruising for burgers? Better??
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I really don't think they had time to be that cunning. And, for my part, the major part of the delay has been the Missouri DMV...huge delays and paperwork there.

 

[Trnsl8r]

I really don't think they had time to be that cunning. And, for my part, the major part of the delay has been the Missouri DMV...huge delays and paperwork there.

Yeah, I would blame the state's DMV. I got CA title and plates in hand about two weeks after delivery. Nowhere near what could be called a "cool off period", at least not for me.

 

[Lyon]

Tags that are valid in California are valid in Maryland. It's a Constitutional thing.

If someone does get pulled over and given a ticket for it I imagine an affidavit (notarized of course) from Tesla would suffice to show that the paper tags are legitimate. Once that's been established you're golden.

One big problem is that many states don't do the paper in the window thing. They do a paper where the license plate goes thing. Maryland (and I think VA) is one of those states.

Oh, and Tesla needs to do a better job of getting the paperwork into local DMVs in a timely manner. They didn't even get mine to me to FILL OUT until a month after I got my car. I'm sure if I had been pulled over in that time period my VIN would not have been in the Oregon DMV database.

 

[FlasherZ]

Tags that are valid in California are valid in Maryland. It's a Constitutional thing.

Not necessarily.

If you move from Illinois to California, as I did, you have 15 days to register the car in California, even if your Illinois tags still have 11 more months of validity to them. If you do not, you can receive a ticket for failure to register the vehicle and you'll pay a per-day penalty. I recall being told there was case law to support the legality of such a regulation at the time, when I argued that I didn't feel like throwing my additional 10 months away.

 

[andrewket]

Not necessarily.

If you move from Illinois to California, as I did, you have 15 days to register the car in California, even if your Illinois tags still have 11 more months of validity to them. If you do not, you can receive a ticket for failure to register the vehicle and you'll pay a per-day penalty. I recall being told there was case law to support the legality of such a regulation at the time, when I argued that I didn't feel like throwing my additional 10 months away.

This is correct. In the case of Illinois, can you request a refund for the unused time? You can in Virginia. It's prorated and you have to pay a fee, but you can get some of it back.

In this case, however, the OP IS registering in his home state. He is waiting for the registration and tags to be issued. That's different than moving and trying to delay registering in the new state. The real solution I suppose is Tesla needs to be able to issue temp tags in all 50 states and not just California.

 

[Lyon]

Not necessarily.

If you move from Illinois to California, as I did, you have 15 days to register the car in California, even if your Illinois tags still have 11 more months of validity to them. If you do not, you can receive a ticket for failure to register the vehicle and you'll pay a per-day penalty. I recall being told there was case law to support the legality of such a regulation at the time, when I argued that I didn't feel like throwing my additional 10 months away.

This seems like something of a different animal than buying a new car and having a temp tag on it. I think that the California law is designed to make people who MOVE there change registrations. For instance, I have a temporary (same logic applies for normal tag) Oregon tag on my Model S and I have no fears that I couldn't go for a month long vacation in California with any difficulties (at least with car registration). Moreover, California doesn't say your Illinois tags are invalid just that, as a California resident, you need to have California tags. Think about all the college students who go out of state!

My point is that Maryland (or whichever state) can get all hot and bothered about you taking too long to register your Model S but if California has issued a temporary permit to operate the vehicle, Maryland's gotta recognize it. There are tons of ways states have taken the teeth out of it (like your example) but the Full Faith and Credit clause still does mean something. IMHO.

 

[FlasherZ]

In this case, however, the OP IS registering in his home state. He is waiting for the registration and tags to be issued. That's different than moving and trying to delay registering in the new state. The real solution I suppose is Tesla needs to be able to issue temp tags in all 50 states and not just California.

Correct, but if I recall correctly, the law in California relates to a California resident bringing a car into the state (it doesn't specifically talk about moving, it just refers to the fact you're a permanent resident and you're bringing in another vehicle whether via purchase or move). So reflect that law on another state -- imagine if Virginia, for example, had a law that said "any Virginia resident, bringing a car into the state, must register it with the state department of motor vehicles within 15 days".

That would indeed preclude the use of the California temp tag.

(I could be wrong about that law, or it could have been rewritten, I did this in 1995.)

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This seems like something of a different animal than buying a new car and having a temp tag on it. I think that the California law is designed to make people who MOVE there change registrations. For instance, I have a temporary (same logic applies for normal tag) Oregon tag on my Model S and I have no fears that I couldn't go for a month long vacation in California with any difficulties (at least with car registration). Moreover, California doesn't say your Illinois tags are invalid just that, as a California resident, you need to have California tags. Think about all the college students who go out of state!

I agree that temporary residents can use their external plates, but see my other example, above. If the California law were present in another state, it would preclude the use of another state's temp tags and you'd have to display a local temporary registration.

 

[andrewket]

Correct, but if I recall correctly, the law in California relates to a California resident bringing a car into the state. So reflect that law on another state -- imagine if Virginia, for example, had a law that said "any Virginia resident, bringing a car into the state, must register it with the state department of motor vehicles within 15 days".

That would indeed preclude the use of the California temp tag.

Virginia actually has such a law. And the OP IS trying to comply. It's not his fault that Tesla is taking their time processing the paperwork, nor is it his fault that Tesla decided to issue a CA temp tag instead of Maryland. But the CA tag IS valid in MD. I think the burden of proof is on the state to show that the OP is not acting in good faith and doesn't have a registration pending in MD.

I think we're all saying the same thing. While the law might be on the OP's side, the real solution lies with Tesla.

 

[FlasherZ]

Virginia actually has such a law. And the OP IS trying to comply. It's not his fault that Tesla is taking their time processing the paperwork, nor is it his fault that Tesla decided to issue a CA temp tag instead of Maryland. But the CA tag IS valid in MD. I think the burden of proof is on the state to show that the OP is not acting in good faith and doesn't have a registration pending in MD.

I think we're all saying the same thing. While the law might be on the OP's side, the real solution lies with Tesla.

We are saying the same thing - in the SPIRIT of the law. But to the letter of the law, and with my experience with California, if Model S were made in Virginia and shipped to a permanent California resident with a VA temp tag attached, after 15 days you could (and would) be ticketed and fined for each day you didn't have a California registration on it. Doesn't matter if it's Tesla's fault, the OP is required by law to get a local registration on it, not Tesla, because the OP brought the car into the state.

Hence my statement that it would be much better to give the owner the MCO/MSO.

 

[andrewket]

Hence my statement that it would be much better to give the owner the MCO/MSO.

I agree (I said exactly same thing earlier in the thread.) I suspect the reason Tesla doesn't do this is because of car loans. Some loan checks require the "dealer" to file for the title with the lien information. If you have the MCO, you could title it without the lien.

 

[wycolo]

> much better to give the owner the MCO/MSO. [FlasherZ]

Tesla says they engrave the MCO/MSO right in the Nummi Plant. Don't farm out the job. Plus they know I paid cash, ages ago. So why play this right up to the wire??

Btw, is the S MCO a thing of beauty?
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[woof]

Btw, is the S MCO a thing of beauty?
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Looks like a laser printed stock certificate. Suitable for framing? Not so much.