Push me or hold me back: trade in 2019 MS for Sept 2023 MS?

[SteveW25561]

The new price drops and the FSD transfer has me looking seriously at trading in my 2019 Raven Model S for the current 2023 model. The crunch is I need to decide in order to get delivery by Sept 30th to qualify for the FSD transfer. Thus I'm looking for people to push me or hold me back while I obsess in the next few days to make a decision.

My 2019 MS has unlimited supercharging and free connectivity for life plus FSD. I can handle to cost of a connectivity subscription, and I only use Supercharging rarely. In Canada the FSD is currently $16000 CAD - in 2019 I paid $7,900.

The biggest thing holding me back is the lack of USS park assist in the current models: I know Tesla Vision park assist is out but most accounts seem to indicate it's frequently inaccurate. In Vancouver, it rains so much I'm concerned that Tesla Vision park assist will be even worse. The lack of front bumper cameras makes it even less reliable.

This will be my 4th Model S: I had the original beagle nose version in 2010 and obsessed with parking sensors then - it didn't have them and I manually retrofitted them - so I really like the USS park assist.

Thoughts? Experiences?

 

[Destiny1701]

Are you otherwise quite happy with your Raven? I’ve had a 2016 90D, a 2017 P100D (work leases) and lastly 2018 100D until 2022 …so have an idea what you mean about USS and its importance.

At this time will you receive a decent return on your Raven?

Other than uss, there is alot to gain from the newer models overall. Is that enough you sway you?

 

[OlderThanDirt]

It sounds like the FSD transfer has some good value for you?? Vision replacing the sensors?? Like everything With Tesla things are shall we say always maturing. Vision will keep improving.

The current revision Model S as a whole is a huge leap over any Model S before it in my humble opinion. It looks pretty much like the previous versions. But it's really totally different. Personally I'd be all over making the switch as you describe it.

 

[SteveW25561]

I just submitted a trade in request on the Tesla website last night so I'll see what the trade in valuation is. I do like the Raven, but I'm clearly a Tesla junkie, upgrading every 4 years just as the warranty runs out (mine runs out tomorrow!!).

I don't really believe FSD will ever really be truly FSD with level 5 autonomy with the current hardware, but the FSD transfer for an 8K saving seems better than not having it (enhanced autopilot is $8K). I do like the navigate on autopilot features, for example. We have a 2021 Model Y with "just" standard autopilot but I do like the extra features. I do also know the current FSD on HW 4.0 is limited below prior HW versions but expect that will improve.

The parking assist is still unclear since there is no hardware camera for the front bumper so by definition it will not see that area. That unused radar in HW 4.0 may or may not be of any use in parking situations so I'm also not betting on it.

The removal of the USS, especially at this price point seems like stubborn determination to prove the Vision model. Heck even the "AI rain sensors" seem deficient compared to the old rain sensors from cars 10 years ago.

Clearly hundreds of thousands of users are running without parking sensors across the range, but this is a sticking point for me right now...if not for that issue, I'd be in the delivery queue!

 

[Ostrichsak]

I just submitted a trade in request on the Tesla website last night so I'll see what the trade in valuation is. I do like the Raven, but I'm clearly a Tesla junkie, upgrading every 4 years just as the warranty runs out (mine runs out tomorrow!!).

I don't really believe FSD will ever really be truly FSD with level 5 autonomy with the current hardware, but the FSD transfer for an 8K saving seems better than not having it (enhanced autopilot is $8K). I do like the navigate on autopilot features, for example. We have a 2021 Model Y with "just" standard autopilot but I do like the extra features. I do also know the current FSD on HW 4.0 is limited below prior HW versions but expect that will improve.

The parking assist is still unclear since there is no hardware camera for the front bumper so by definition it will not see that area. That unused radar in HW 4.0 may or may not be of any use in parking situations so I'm also not betting on it.

The removal of the USS, especially at this price point seems like stubborn determination to prove the Vision model. Heck even the "AI rain sensors" seem deficient compared to the old rain sensors from cars 10 years ago.

Clearly hundreds of thousands of users are running without parking sensors across the range, but this is a sticking point for me right now...if not for that issue, I'd be in the delivery queue!

Be sure to report back how excited you are to "upgrade" when Tesla offers you $32k trade-in.

 

[EVRider-FL]

Before you order, make sure there are inventory cars in your area that meet your requirements. There’s a good chance you won’t get a car by Sept 30 otherwise, in which case you won’t be eligible for the FSD transfer.

 

[NewEnglander]

The new price drops and the FSD transfer has me looking seriously at trading in my 2019 Raven Model S for the current 2023 model. The crunch is I need to decide in order to get delivery by Sept 30th to qualify for the FSD transfer. Thus I'm looking for people to push me or hold me back while I obsess in the next few days to make a decision. My 2019 MS has unlimited supercharging and free connectivity for life plus FSD. I can handle to cost of a connectivity subscription, and I only use Supercharging rarely. In Canada the FSD is currently $16000 CAD - in 2019 I paid $7,900. The biggest thing holding me back is the lack of USS park assist in the current models: I know Tesla Vision park assist is out but most accounts seem to indicate it's frequently inaccurate. In Vancouver, it rains so much I'm concerned that Tesla Vision park assist will be even worse. The lack of front bumper cameras makes it even less reliable. This will be my 4th Model S: I had the original beagle nose version in 2010 and obsessed with parking sensors then - it didn't have them and I manually retrofitted them - so I really like the USS park assist. Thoughts? Experiences?

We were in a similar position as you and were thinking of upgrading our 2018 Model s 100D with the 23 S. Even went for a test drive to see the 23 version, but was disappointed with the build quality. What I have realized is that while software has improved, all efficiency gains in range have come at the cost of cheaper/lighter build quality. The interiors seemed too cheap vs 2018 Build. The battery is still 100 KWH and physics cannot change so the range improvement is largely because of less weight of the car. Even interior dimensions are smaller vs 2018. And our 2018 tesla is running perfectly fine. I don't really watch Netflix and all in my car and for most driving functions, it is nicer than the latest version.
I am likely going to hold out for the next version of Tesla, hoping they increase battery capacity and improve build quality. A build quality of Lucid, software of Tesla, and a range of 400+ miles will be just awesome!

 

[Speedr117]

@SteveW25561, you're going to be so happy! I replied to another thread (and then another one), but below is what I said:

I just did this. I traded in my late 2017 Model S 100D for a Model S Plaid (and did the FSD transfer). I too had unlimited supercharging and premium connectivity. Very rarely used the supercharging except on road trips. The connectivity is only $100/year, so not really a meaningful savings.

I usually agonize after a big purchase, second guessing myself. Not once did I do that this time! It's just awesome! It's like the ultimate upgrade: It feels completely new, but there's a hint of nostalgia that makes it very comforting. Trust me, you won't regret it!!

Also, drove both the Yoke and the Steering Wheel, and ended liking the Yoke better, as did my wife. I figured by getting the Yoke, if I ended up hating it, it was only $750 to replace it with a Steering Wheel (there's no option to go from Wheel to Yoke).

Please let me know if you have any questions! Like I said, it's awesome! Now I just need to updated my profile pick...

 

[Speedr117]

And this is what I said about the lack of USS:

The software version I got from the factory had the same functionality as my old USS car (showing me the outline around the car as I got close to things). It actually seems better since it appears to show further from the car vs. the old USS visualization. The cameras are also WAY better (almost like going from old SD TV to HD TV), so that also helps when backing up, like I do into my tight garage. Let me know if I can answer any other questions. BTW, what are the specs on your new car?

 

[Speedr117]

Oh, and the Tesla trade-in offer was low, as expected, so I tried all the various outlets (Carvana, CarMax, etc.), and KBB came back with the best offer. Went to the local dealer they pointed me to and they wrote a check for what was quoted online ($6k over Tesla's offer). What I found interesting is KBB actually has their own auction (like Manheim), so the dealer doing the paperwork may not get to sell it. Either way, it was painless.

 

[Propofoln]

I just submitted a trade in request on the Tesla website last night so I'll see what the trade in valuation is. I do like the Raven, but I'm clearly a Tesla junkie, upgrading every 4 years just as the warranty runs out (mine runs out tomorrow!!).

I don't really believe FSD will ever really be truly FSD with level 5 autonomy with the current hardware, but the FSD transfer for an 8K saving seems better than not having it (enhanced autopilot is $8K). I do like the navigate on autopilot features, for example. We have a 2021 Model Y with "just" standard autopilot but I do like the extra features. I do also know the current FSD on HW 4.0 is limited below prior HW versions but expect that will improve.

The parking assist is still unclear since there is no hardware camera for the front bumper so by definition it will not see that area. That unused radar in HW 4.0 may or may not be of any use in parking situations so I'm also not betting on it.

The removal of the USS, especially at this price point seems like stubborn determination to prove the Vision model. Heck even the "AI rain sensors" seem deficient compared to the old rain sensors from cars 10 years ago.

Clearly hundreds of thousands of users are running without parking sensors across the range, but this is a sticking point for me right now...if not for that issue, I'd be in the delivery queue!

Vision park assist sucks, but whatever. Don’t usually need it

 

[Propofoln]

Oh, and the Tesla trade-in offer was low, as expected, so I tried all the various outlets (Carvana, CarMax, etc.), and KBB came back with the best offer. Went to the local dealer they pointed me to and they wrote a check for what was quoted online ($6k over Tesla's offer). What I found interesting is KBB actually has their own auction (like Manheim), so the dealer doing the paperwork may not get to sell it. Either way, it was painless.

Tesla does NOT want you to trade in your car to them. Low ball central. I guess they can occasionally get suckers

 

[Speedr117]

Tesla does NOT want you to trade in your car to them. Low ball central. I guess they can occasionally get suckers

Agreed!

BTW, the other big improvement that might have only bothered me, is the back trunk cover. In the old Model S, if you forgot to flip the cover back, you'd see it bouncing in the rear view mirror (and therefore drive you nuts). Now, it magnetic, so when you flip it up, it folds in half and "sticks" together. No more flapping!!!

 

[AMPd]

Tesla does NOT want you to trade in your car to them. Low ball central. I guess they can occasionally get suckers

They really don’t, they don’t have the staff or the space to deal with used cars.

When I returned my lease they drove it to Mannheim the next day. The person doing the inspection at Tesla just walked around the car and looked inside and sent me on my way.

I got the final bill and they didn’t charge me for the wheel damage, or all of the excess miles. I was 26k miles over and they charged me for like 10k miles

 

[SteveW25561]

@Ostrichsak haha joke's on you! They offered a whopping $40k Yikes.

I paid $117 K in 2019 with FSD so they evaluated it assuming I take away FSD, so base price was ~109K (FSD $7,900). Unfortunately there's also an accident on record - some jerk backed into my MS 2 weeks after I got it (I was parked) and insurance replaced the whole rear liftgate - although no other structural damage, I'm sure this hurt my valuation.

This looks like a 65% depreciation at 4 years.This still seems high but I understand luxury vehicles can lose this much at 4-5 years - plus the new price drop likely made a difference!

I'm gonna shop it and see what I might get elsewhere, hopefully before the general market catches wind of the new car price drops.

I did test drive an MS today: I agree there are a lot of nice upgrades and fit and finish is much nicer now. The Vision parking was definitely not as good as USS but workable assuming I can use the camera (it wasn't raining today). Sooo tempted....

 

[CleanDemon]

My two cents (because you asked)… I’d stick with your 2019. It’s just a 4 year old car, and I’m guessing in good shape. You’ll take a bath if you try to sell or trade in and I think the lower prices are here to stay. Why not wait on HW5 or a front bumper camera? I bet we’re less than two years away from another refresh.

 

[Destiny1701]

Curious if you found the suspension any better in the 2023 tester Vs your 2019 Raven adaptive susp? Not so much road noise…just susp feel. There are some threads stating the former adaptive suspension was actually softer than current.

Given the trade in values, I’d prob keep the Raven. If you want to ‘refresh’ it, $4-500 to black out the chrome trim on doors, side mirrors, front fogs, rear chrome strip, front T emblem and housing…Voila. Instant 2023 look

 

[Anth89]

I would keep the old one.

Your current Model S has the best combination that can be searched on a 1st gen: biggest battery, raven powertrain, lifetime supercharging and connectivity. On top of that, you still have USS and normal stalks, which I find for daily driving nothing less than very practical, especially the stalk shifter.

I see very mixed testimonies on the new Model S, especially when it comes to building quality.
If you're fine with your current car (for which Tesla only offers $40k!) then keep it. It's a future collector.

 

[asterothe]

For 2019 I'd hold.

 

[SteveW25561]

thanks for everyone’s input. I’m gonna take a 24h tester and see if I can find a better selling price.

My worry is that the resale value will drop even further as the market gets used to the new lower pricing. Right now the non tesla used car people may not be reflecting this new change so there may be a small window for better valuation.

All that said I’m hoping Tesla will re offer the FSD transfer again (and hold prices like now) - especially towards the end of another quarter. What’s the over/under bet on that?