Ran out of juice, 12V and main pack drained, need info.

[Kraken]

First, and I'm surprised this topic hasn't been brought up in this thread too, but too bad he didn't have an 'A' pack. The 'A' pack could have saved him because there would have been no way he would have thought he had enough charge to make it! :tongue:

Physicsfita...I'm doing 150 miles round trip right now. We're driving highway speeds and only charging to 90% in an 85kw battery, and we still get home just fine with plenty of range to spare. We have even range charged and driven an extra 70 miles to run some errands and still got home with 20 miles to spare. As long as you plugged in at night and minimally thought about what the next day entails, you would be fine for all of that driving. Further, the amount of thought is less than the required thought to remember to go full up. Leaving home with a full tank every day is something that changes everything.

 

[islandbayy]

First, and I'm surprised this topic hasn't been brought up in this thread too, but too bad he didn't have an 'A' pack. The 'A' pack could have saved him because there would have been no way he would have thought he had enough charge to make it! :tongue:

Physicsfita...I'm doing 150 miles round trip right now. We're driving highway speeds and only charging to 90% in an 85kw battery, and we still get home just fine with plenty of range to spare. We have even range charged and driven an extra 70 miles to run some errands and still got home with 20 miles to spare. As long as you plugged in at night and minimally thought about what the next day entails, you would be fine for all of that driving. Further, the amount of thought is less than the required thought to remember to go full up. Leaving home with a full tank every day is something that changes everything.

I actually do have a "A" pack. Only, I have the 60kW "A" pack. So that means even though it's a "A", I can still charge at 105kW (max limit for all 60kW Packs).

 

[physicsfita]

The reason I'm concerned about whether a 200-mile pack will be ok for a 120-mile round trip is that in the wintertime, I've had to do the commute in temps as low as -15 F on icy roads with 20+ mph crosswinds. Add in the cold soak while parked at work not plugged in, it seems worrisome.

 

[dsm363]

The reason I'm concerned about whether a 200-mile pack will be ok for a 120-mile round trip is that in the wintertime, I've had to do the commute in temps as low as -15 F on icy roads with 20+ mph crosswinds. Add in the cold soak while parked at work not plugged in, it seems worrisome.

I agree. ChadS has an excellent thread about this but he says assume about 77% rated range as worst case scenario for winter and normal highway speeds. 200 miles might be close but doable for your commute. Do you have any way to charge at work if you paid for the installation?

How much do you spend on fuel a year? Wondering if maybe a used 85 kWh Model S down the road might be a viable option.

 

[physicsfita]

I agree. ChadS has an excellent thread about this but he says assume about 77% rated range as worst case scenario for winter and normal highway speeds. 200 miles might be close but doable for your commute. Do you have any way to charge at work if you paid for the installation?

How much do you spend on fuel a year? Wondering if maybe a used 85 kWh Model S down the road might be a viable option.

On my salary, I think trying to get work to see the "green light" is the only way to go -- I am working that angle hard. At 45 mpg and $3.50/gal, I'm spending a little over $3K on gas, plus about $1200 on oil changes, air filters, inspections, etc. (Yes, I do baby my cars because I usually drive them until they're ready for the junkyard.) I figure between those savings and what my budget could support for a car payment, plus a healthy down payment, I could maybe swing up to a $50K car on a 7-year loan. A used 85 kW-h S might be an option if I can convince the credit union that it would last another 7 years and depreciate ok -- certainty an option to explore when the time comes.

 

[dsm363]

On my salary, I think trying to get work to see the "green light" is the only way to go -- I am working that angle hard. At 45 mpg and $3.50/gal, I'm spending a little over $3K on gas, plus about $1200 on oil changes, air filters, inspections, etc. (Yes, I do baby my cars because I usually drive them until they're ready for the junkyard.) I figure between those savings and what my budget could support for a car payment, plus a healthy down payment, I could maybe swing up to a $50K car on a 7-year loan. A used 85 kW-h S might be an option if I can convince the credit union that it would last another 7 years and depreciate ok -- certainty an option to explore when the time comes.

Good luck to you! Hopefully you can find one around that price at some point or the Model E has enough range. If you can somehow arrange decent charging at work then even a 200 mile range car in winter will be more than enough.

 

[Chris Naps]

Hello Islandbayy, I am glad you and your family are safe and well, and for the Tesla? Time will only tell. The only complaint I have is, "Out of all of your videos.. WHY WASN'T THIS ONE RECORDED!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?" This would have been the prime time video and I would have loved to have felt as if I was there during the madness. I am glad I wasn't, but still. Keep the camera handy!

 

[islandbayy]

Hello Islandbayy, I am glad you and your family are safe and well, and for the Tesla? Time will only tell. The only complaint I have is, "Out of all of your videos.. WHY WASN'T THIS ONE RECORDED!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?" This would have been the prime time video and I would have loved to have felt as if I was there during the madness. I am glad I wasn't, but still. Keep the camera handy!

Three reasons. First, I was more concerned for my family and taking care of the situation. Second, Granny would have shot me, third, Media Spin. I guarantee you that the media would have snatched it up and ran with it. I've already gotten a number of phone calls from various TV stations (Surprisingly none from Lauren Fix...), and I refuse to talk to them on this subject. Before I can even say a word, they already tried spinning the story that the Tesla is what failed. It was poor planning on my part, and I did not leave enough room for the unexpected. I'm up to 6 calls by reporters representing Major TV stations. While I have no problem talking about the car, and would love to on the news, they are already trying to corner me into saying something they can royally spin into Anti-Tesla. Which is why I've now not responded directly as much in this thread. I do have a video of the car being loaded onto the flat bed. I'm not sure if I will be sharing it or not yet.

I also hope I have not lost too much credibility with the Tesla Community due to this incident. I know I push my car to it's limits, HARD to it's limits, and sometimes beyond them. If anything, my MS60 is one of the most abused (to be clear, abused in terms of pushing a vehicle to the absolute max of what it is capable of, not abused as in taking over jumps, and doing things it was not designed for, accept maybe, for the trailer hitch I am contemplating installing for use of pulling a small 100lbs utility trailer and possibly a ultra-light teardrop camper once finances improve) cars Tesla has on the road. My Trunk Midgets make full use of everything in the car, as well as use it as their personal "fort" for playing in. I take it to the edge of it's range, push it to the limits of what it can haul (Trust me, I've even managed to fit a BOXED 70" TV in this thing to haul for my sister along with 3 kids, Me, and Her! and that's just scratching the surface), so if anything, I am showing just how capable these cars really are. This ant' no Prius or Smart Car, this is a SMARTER Car

I hope to continue to help support the Tesla community as a whole, and will continue to make my videos, and share my findings and what I learn with everyone, and do so to the best of my abilities, and try to keep the information I share as accurate as possible. We all make mistakes, this is one of the biggest ones of my life, and hope the community can look past it as we move on.

 

[glhs272]

Sh*t happens Chris. We all make mistakes. I like to push my 60 too. I will probably have my car end up on a flat bed one of these days. Glade all involved are safe.

My latest crazy range extending idea: Espar Airtronic D2 heater. 1 gallon fuel tank (racing cell from jegs). Can run for about 22 hours on one gallon of diesel. I would only need it for those occasional range stretching road trips in the dead of winter, so only burning a gallon or 2 of diesel a year wouldn't be so bad. So when my warranty runs out, might consider this.

 

[brianman]

How do you put the Model S into JACK mode if the electrical system isn't working?

You don't. I reported this issue to ownership over a year ago. I got a form response and, AFAIK, no action taken. My suggestion at the time (among many in the e-mail) was some form of manual release/lever/lock/whatever.

 

[Nathan Smith]

I agree. ChadS has an excellent thread about this but he says assume about 77% rated range as worst case scenario for winter and normal highway speeds. 200 miles might be close but doable for your commute. Do you have any way to charge at work if you paid for the installation?

physicsfita,

Don't forget to include battery degradation over the length of time you expect to own the car... Or leaving the office to go to lunch... Or errands on the way home... All reason I went with the 85 for a similar type of daily communte. Here's hoping for a workable solution for you.

 

[John Luciano]

Wow what a story. This should not in anyway discredit the Tesla. I can't count how many Gas powered cars I have seen stranded that ran out of gas.. For the same reason you did, ( estimating how far one can drive with the little red gas pump lit on the gage. 0 miles left) .
As once said I am looking to purchase a Tesla in the near future. This story in no way discourages me in my purchase.
If we look back at the pioneers of the auto world and the struggles that they had with the early autos 1903 1906 we are not much different. The public made comments on them too " get a horse " gas stations were sometimes a local drug store. Finally the car caught on. And I can assure you other manufactures are looking at the strides Tesla has made in the improvement of the Battery only automobile. Soon they will wake up and things will be great. BITD when gas was $.35 a gallon. My brother in law had a 1956 Caddy Conv. That could not go 200 miles on a full tank ( 18 gal of gas) at some point in time Charge stations will be as plentiful as gas stations. I am happy everyone was safe and no one was hurt.

 

[JohnQ]

... I also hope I have not lost too much credibility with the Tesla Community due to this incident...

Why would you lose credibility for this? You tried to stretch a double into a triple and got thrown out. Isn't the first time someone miscalculated needed range and certainly won't be the last, though hopefully your story reduces the number. You've gained credibility in my book by sharing this story.

 

[scaesare]

I'm a little baffled by the focus of "fault" in this thread.

Running out of fuel is not always strictly the fault of the driver. Nor is it always the responsibility of the car manufacturer.

As an example of the former, I have a colleague who witnessed this: Surprise Snow Squall. It was nowhere in the weather forecasts, hit within a matter of minutes, and was severe. The point being: even with reasonable planning on the best available information factors outside of your control can happen.

As point to the latter: It's not Tesla's responsibility to eliminate or remediate all possible issues associated with running out of charge. They attempt to insulate the driver from surprise issues at the low end of the pack with some reserve (which may well be there to account for SOC fluctuation due to temp, etc...). They are working to provide more charging options, but depleting your charge accidentally is no more Tesla's fault than running our of gas Chevy's.

Of course, knowing the landscape when taking a trip is important, regardless of vehicle type: distance of trip legs, availability/distance between refueling stations, environmental variables (temp, elevation change, etc...), vehicle behavior, etc...

These are things that one must be cognizant of to drive any vehicle to any destination. They are even more important when driving longer distances, have fewer refueling options, are in unfamiliar area, or have a vehicle with different characteristics than normal. Thus more planning may be involved.

However, all plans are tradeoffs: Charge vs. time. Margin of reserve vs. available refueling options. Etc... And as they say: "The best laid plans of mice & men..."

So in this case the the planned charge activity didn't work out as planned. Why vilify anybody? He shared a rather humbling experience with the rest of us so we can learn. This is still the early pioneering days of the wild EV frontier. We still don't understand everything about the characteristics of these cars. Those behaviors can change overnight as of a firmware update. Unexpected events do occur in the course of a journey.

Let's learn from it... eventually we'll all enjoy ubiquitous charging options for cars with 500 mile range. In the mean time, I appreciate any information that will help me learn to make the best of the current situation along the way. Thanks islandbayy for the account. Thanks Tesla for the car and ever increasing charging options.

 

[arthur campbell]

I have not read all the post regarding the problems with towing a model S. Therefore, this may have been posted previosly. My question is "why not call a local rental company, construction company or your friend for a generator?"

 

[Kalud]

(...) I also hope I have not lost too much credibility with the Tesla Community due to this incident.

You did not, at least, in my point of view. Sharing your misfortune actually educated many. Learning from mistakes, that is. Thanks and I also appreciate your handling of the events regarding media trying to stir the pot in a bad way...

 

[Mayhemm]

I have not read all the post regarding the problems with towing a model S. Therefore, this may have been posted previosly. My question is "why not call a local rental company, construction company or your friend for a generator?"

While this would technically work, it would be far from ideal. Most construction generators would provide, at most, a 15A/120V charge (~3mph). Many do not play nice with the Model S charging logic, either (car reads it as unstable and won't accept charge).

From what I've learned in this thread, the best solution (in terms of difficulty and time spent) is to first get a battery jump, either from a friend or roadside assistance, to disengage the parking brake/enable tow mode, followed by loading the car on a flatbed.

I know that when I get my car, I will practice taking off the nosecone and make sure I know where tow mode is located in the UI.

 

[islandbayy]

While this would technically work, it would be far from ideal. Most construction generators would provide, at most, a 15A/120V charge (~3mph). Many do not play nice with the Model S charging logic, either (car reads it as unstable and won't accept charge).

From what I've learned in this thread, the best solution (in terms of difficulty and time spent) is to first get a battery jump, either from a friend or roadside assistance, to disengage the parking brake/enable tow mode, followed by loading the car on a flatbed.

I know that when I get my car, I will practice taking off the nosecone and make sure I know where tow mode is located in the UI.

 

[rlang59]

You don't have to do all that to get the nose cone off. Just push down hard on the chrome pieces in the frunk.

 

[snellenr]

Thanks to islandbayy for sharing his story...

At the heart of the story, he needed more situational awareness help once the car went into it's terminal energy management routines. If the system had thrown up a cue that it was going to have to do some pack heating in XX W-hours, for example, he would have at least known that the vehicle was going to be undriveable sooner than he thought and he might have had a chance to take more steps to extend his range.

It sounds like what is needed is a non-optional "terminal energy management" display that is only be displayed when the remaining range hits zero -- one which highlights what steps the system will be taking to protect itself (and when), and maybe even provide a "master switch" that can quickly turn off all optional energy sinks (A/V, A/C, seat heaters, etc) so that you don't have to remember them.