Range Anxiety Boils-Down to a Tow

[rhumbliner]

For me, living in a less densely populated area on the east coast, I'll need an ICE as a backup where an EV doesn't make sense.

I know nothing about your specifics, nor would I presume to pass judgement on your decision to keep an ICE, but I'm curious how your situation could be more difficult than those of us who live in Wyoming. Talk about isolated. Yet, an EV as my only car has worked out just fine.

 

[McRat]

I know nothing about your specifics, nor would I presume to pass judgement on your decision to keep an ICE, but I'm curious how your situation could be more difficult than those of us who live in Wyoming. Talk about isolated. Yet, an EV as my only car has worked out just fine.

And some people live without cars entirely, even in Wyoming.

Wyoming holds the distinction of having both the fewest number of plug-in vehicles and the lowest percentage.

I live in the Mecca of the Plug-in, California. I could not eliminate ICE vehicles without a serious life change, which includes retirement and abandonment of my existing life. I use very little diesel, and even less gasoline, and sometimes I walk or ride a bicycle to work.

But I'd have to give up motorsports, my business (lay off the staff, shutter the doors), and push my petrofuel use onto others.

Pure EV can work for some people. No car can work for others. And still others have no EV option that will get the job done. Are your UPS trucks EV in Wyoming?

 

[182RG]

I know nothing about your specifics, nor would I presume to pass judgement on your decision to keep an ICE, but I'm curious how your situation could be more difficult than those of us who live in Wyoming. Talk about isolated. Yet, an EV as my only car has worked out just fine.

Winter ski trips from NoVa to Snowshoe, WV. 180 miles, climbing to 5,000 feet on twisting secondary roads. Temps at the top are often in the teens or single digits, snowy roads. Loaded with gear. No charging of any kind (per Plugshare) on the route, no Internet service for more than half of the trip (Greenbank blackout zone). There are two Tesla destination chargers at Snowshoe, but outside, on the back side of the public parking lot (ridge top where it is coldest). If they are out of service, or full, there are not any other options. Telling my wife that we have to turn down the heat to increase the range is definitely not an option.

Compare that to taking my Touareg TDI, 700 mile range, excellent heating that I can park in the heated underground parking garage at the condo (no outlets). I'll keep it just for this.

Could I make it work? Maybe. Does it make sense for me? No.

 

[bhzmark]

Let's say you need to go 35 miles to get to a store. And your EV has 82 mi of EPA range. Y

. Gasoline cars seldom experience it, because in the same 35 mile situation, and your guessometer says 82 miles, you stop for fuel on your way, it takes 5 minutes.

EV cars seldom experience the scenario you describe because the EV car would rarely be sitting at home with only 82 miles of range. An EV owners would simply charge up while at home before leaving for the store with no need to waste 5 minutes stopping at a smelly gas stn on the way to the store.

 

[bhzmark]

Winter ski trips from NoVa to Snowshoe, WV. 180 miles, climbing to 5,000 feet on twisting secondary roads. Temps at the top are often in the teens or single digits, snowy roads. Loaded with gear. No charging of any kind (per Plugshare) on the route, no Internet service for more than half of the trip (Greenbank blackout zone). There are two Tesla destination chargers at Snowshoe, but outside, on the back side of the public parking lot (ridge top where it is coldest). If they are out of service, or full, there are not any other options. Telling my wife that we have to turn down the heat to increase the range is definitely not an option.

Compare that to taking my Touareg TDI, 700 mile range, excellent heating that I can park in the heated underground parking garage at the condo (no outlets). I'll keep it just for this.

Could I make it work? Maybe. Does it make sense for me? No.

I've done it three times. No problem. And wall outlets available in the underground covered garages also.

 

[McRat]

EV cars seldom experience the scenario you describe because the EV car would rarely be sitting at home with only 82 miles of range. An EV owners would simply charge up while at home before leaving for the store with no need to waste 5 minutes stopping at a smelly gas stn on the way to the store.

You probably do not know that most the EVs on earth, and North America, have a range of under 100 miles. Many have 8x miles.

But to make you happy, your guessometer says 208mi, and the destination is 90 mi away, and when you arrive, it says you have 90 miles of range.

Be happy!

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

You probably do not know that most the EVs on earth, and North America, have a range of under 100 miles. Many have 8x miles.

But to make you happy, your guessometer says 208mi, and the destination is 90 mi away, and when you arrive, it says you have 90 miles of range.

Be happy!

I had one of those 8x range BEV's, and bhzmark is correct. We don't experience the scenario you described. My range is my range, it's either enough or not, there's no need to second guess it and wonder. 35 miles is within range, because arriving home with 1 miles remaining isn't a big deal, since I don't have to drive back out just to refuel.

Edit: "had", because I now have a 107 mile leaf that I tow with and drive out to places that are 90+ miles away (they have EVSE's there).

 

[182RG]

I've done it three times. No problem. And wall outlets available in the underground covered garages also.

Meh. I'm there to ski, drink, and relax. Not play musical parking spaces in cold weather. I'll always have an ICE SUV to road trip.

 

[bhzmark]

Meh. I'm there to ski, drink, and relax. Not play musical parking spaces in cold weather. I'll always have an ICE SUV to road trip.

Me too. That's why I plug in to the warm covered underground garage wall outlet at Soaring Eagle and charge during my stay. I hate smelly gas stns.

 

[rhumbliner]

Are your UPS trucks EV in Wyoming?

All UPS & FedEx trucks here pull tanker trailers.

 

[McRat]

I had one of those 8x range BEV's, and bhzmark is correct. We don't experience the scenario you described. My range is my range, it's either enough or not, there's no need to second guess it and wonder. 35 miles is within range, because arriving home with 1 miles remaining isn't a big deal, since I don't have to drive back out just to refuel.

Edit: "had", because I now have a 107 mile leaf that I tow with and drive out to places that are 90+ miles away (they have EVSE's there).

You mean you drive out to places that are 106 miles, right? Because 1 mile keeps a smile on your face.

Not sure if you followed the math. When you arrive, you realize that due to conditions, you used more than the rated kWh to cover the distance, and it now says you have used more than 1/2 your charge, and you have less than 1/2 a charge to get home. You'll make it. Probably. If not, waiting 15min to 4hrs for a tow is a great time to mediate or play Pokemon Go. Especially if the address was in Compton at night.

 

[gavine]

If you arrive with half left, it doesn't necessarily mean you will need the same amount to get home. What if your destination is in the mountains and on the way up you use half of your charge to get there. The way back will regen and you could theoretically get home with more than half left.

 

[McRat]

If you arrive with half left, it doesn't necessarily mean you will need the same amount to get home. What if your destination is in the mountains and on the way up you use half of your charge to get there. The way back will regen and you could theoretically get home with more than half left.

Correct. But the first time you go, if you are not a little nervous, you must be a masochist. It could have been a headwind on the way down. What will the wind direction be when I return?

 

[Driver Dave]

Is range anxiety really that big of a deal then?

Less than I expected.

Plug in every night. Local driving. Always have more miles than I know what to do with at end of day. Imagine if you used your iPhone all day and look at the charge when done and it still said 80%. That's what it is like 99% of the time.

On trips, there are more superchargers than I know what to do with. Frequently I skip them and stop at the next for lunch, dinner, etc. Charges really quick, usually done before I'm done fueling myself.

Destinations with chargers. This really has been surprising. Most places I've gone have had chargers. Take a ski while charging. Check into hotel, charge. Have a business meeting, charge in parking garage. There pretty much everywhere.

So range anxiety? I think I had more gas anxiety.

 

[bga]

So, If you're going to hitch a tow cable onto the front, why not charge the battery at the same time?

The car can't tell difference between a steep grade and being dragged along. Just don't overdo it,
causing the cable, your car or the tow vehicle problems. An an additonal benefit, the tow cable stays taught,

After 15 minutes or so, a pile of additional range will have been added and you can disconnect.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

If you arrive with half left, it doesn't necessarily mean you will need the same amount to get home. What if your destination is in the mountains and on the way up you use half of your charge to get there. The way back will regen and you could theoretically get home with more than half left.

Exactly. If you use more than you expected to use, and were aware of what caused it (speeding, hill climbing, head winds), then you should have a pretty good idea of what it'll take to return home (slow down, downhill, tailwind).

In the case of my 95mile trip, by the 45 mile mark, I noticed I had more charge than expected so I sped up. By the 70 mile mark, I had less than expected, so I slowed down. The rolling hills at the last 10 miles meant I had to hypermile for that last bit, but I made it with 7 miles of range left, only to find the destination chargers all occupied. Didn't get a chance to charge for at least an hour, but that's a different issue.

If you're driving towards the mountains, why would the extra energy drain surprise you?! The only surprise for trip within a 50 mile radius is speed, and that is usually compensated for by slowing down.

 

[kort677]

So, If you're going to hitch a tow cable onto the front, why not charge the battery at the same time?

The car can't tell difference between a steep grade and being dragged along. Just don't overdo it,
causing the cable, your car or the tow vehicle problems. An an additonal benefit, the tow cable stays taught,

After 15 minutes or so, a pile of additional range will have been added and you can disconnect.

what a bad idea!
you should never tow the car, always flat bed it

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Yeah, anxiety is definitely the right word. I have felt it several times, at worst it is a pretty bad feeling. I get it that it is only a tow usually, but there are often schedule pressures to consider that do not make it that simple.

Back in 2014 cold weather and lack of local charging options at a destination forced me to waste several hours finding a few Tesla incompatible chargers, one too slow a charger (the place it was in would have closed before I had my sufficient fill) and then another that finally solved my issue in the dark of the night, with few tens of kilmeters to spare and two hours away from home... That was real anxiety and of course killed the schedule.

But it can be just social pressures. Just a week ago I was taking the family in my Model S, which I had been driving quite a bit and was leaving the house with something like 35 kilometers of range. Our home charging is too slow to do anything about it at that moment. But the destination was 19 kilometers away and featured ten or so destination charging stalls, so I should be fine.

Come the moment of truth, do I take the Model S or an ICE. A recent experience where cold weather killed 25 kilometers of range in under 10 km, so finally I decide against the BEV. I am already sitting in the ICE when I note we would need to fill its tank anyway and I hate doing that. So I change my mind and tell everyone to move to the Model S, which they grudgingly do. I told myself I was being overly cautious, it would be fine. The weather is mild enough.

We all sit in the Model S and hit the road. The thing is, visiting the gas station quickly with the ICE would be no problem, but charging the EV before the destination is not really possible, so I better have made the right call. To get a significant enough charge, that would also account for any detour needed, would take too much time with people on-board... I would not hear the end of it, were we forced to stop for 15 minutes of charging, let alone for two hours of towing. This is simply a different kind of problem on an EV. It doesn't help that "any car can break down", an EV tow right now would be on me...

So, I am already apprehensive when we get on the road, but my apprehension is turning into full-blown anxiety as I watch the range diminish at a frightful speed. We're 5 kilometers from the house and it is already down almost 10 km. Okay, it is a fast stretch of motorway, it will get better soon... I slow down, switch to range mode, start turning some things off, while trying to keep the family unaware of anything amiss. After all, I'm the one that made the call to take the BEV... Keep talking happy. I do. As far as I know, I am the only anxious person in the car.

Anxiety is absolutely the right word for this. I feel responsible, not just for my own drive but for everyone's time, and the nature of EVs is limiting my options. I know too much to not be anxious, for everyone else in the car ignorance about EVs and the current predicament is a bliss. With the ICE I could have always visited the gas station, with the BEV I better make it to the destination... But now I have made the call. Have I made the right call? And what if the destination charging, for some reason, is not available?

We hit a slightly slower stretch of road and the range calms down a little, and I notice myself being a little less nervous about it. But still that range is there, counting down to doom. It is not an enjoyable drive by any means, I am wishing I would just have taken the ICE.

Then we hit traffic. Sitting there, not moving much, the range is still slowly ticking towards zero. Luckily the slower speeds help. Finally comes the next decision time: which final route to the destination do I take, as its charging is split into two locations with slightly different routes leading to them. Do I drive longer for a (possibly) more guaranteed spot or try the nearest one? At this stage I am even mapping in my mind the maintenance outlets in the parking garage for an emergency... (They would not like that, but hey.)

So, we get down to single digits of range. Starting at 35 range and 19 kilometers of road, I should be at 16. Not 6. Here we are at 6, still on the way, cold(ish) weather and all. My initial concern was warranted. Experience helps a little here, though, I know the Tesla will move some ways even at 0 - at this stage I know we are going to make it, but is the charging available? Will it work?

The chargers are behind a corner. Driving that last stretch, I find myself caught for a moment between terror and bliss, going through the contigencies in my mind: OK, if this is full or under service, I will have enough range to check the second charger section and, finally, at least to park in a warm garage and still probably have enough range to re-check the chargers upon return to the car later. The biggest concern, having to leave the car in some unsuitable place, is alleviated...

I turn the corner and the green lights of the charging stalls welcome me, as range turns to 3 km or something. A lone Tesla is taking up one of the stalls, five chargers are empty. It is a beautiful sight. And they work. When we eventually return to the car later that night, it would be filled to 90%.

Casually I note to the family: "See, taking the EV was just fine. You should just trust me!"

 

[arnis]

Humans are prone to be afraid of things they do not understand. Aliens, dark, lightning, elevators, spiders, snakes, manual gearbox vehicles, ABS, lasers, high voltage, mercury, caves, planes, oral administration of dihydrogen monoxide to babies, vaccines and.. you guessed... running out of fuel while being inside a vehicle.

I would recommend to practice that fear with these, extremely dangerous steps:
Set up a timer to exactly 13 minutes. Start driving. Look at the timer every few minutes.
When it reaches zero alarm will sound. Immediately switch off your V8 engine. Switch on
your hazards and pull to the shoulder. Exit the vehicle. Go for a walk to the nearest
gas station. Buy some tortilla. Return to the vehicle. Continue your trip.
PS! You might lose some body fat due to this procedure, be careful.

Other things to try out instead of buying a tortilla - call a friend and practice rope towing.

I've rope-towed a vehicle for 200 miles for at least 3 times.

 

[jerry33]

what a bad idea!
you should never tow the car, always flat bed it

Correct. It might--stress might--be possible to do it if someone was sitting in the Tesla with the car turned on and in drive. However, I think it's not legal to have someone in a towed car, and even if it is, the chances of the two vehicles colliding is probably 90% over the distance that would take to get enough range to make it worth the effort. Always flat bed it.

I've yet to come close to running out in 85K miles, about half of which are from long distance trips, and not a few without benefit of Superchargers (WBOS). If you think it's going to be at all dodgy to make it, then start slow and watch the trip graph, you can always speed up at the end if you are doing better than expected.