Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

[Jeremy3292]

The 2020 M3 LR EPA rating was 330 miles. 353 miles was the 2021 M3 LR EPA rating which has a different battery.

While you had the right idea with your recalibration, you need to let the car sit for more like 4-6 hours to calibrate with no sentry mode, no opening the app, no charging, nothing. Then charge to 100% until it says "Charge Complete" and see what the miles say. It may or may not help. You do not have a battery issue as batteries degrade over time especially in high heat areas; it is very normal. Also remember that the miles are just an estimate by the car's BMS.

 

[sjohnston4807]

The 2020 M3 LR EPA rating was 330 miles. 353 miles was the 2021 M3 LR EPA rating which has a different battery.

While you had the right idea with your recalibration, you need to let the car sit for more like 4-6 hours to calibrate with no sentry mode, no opening the app, no charging, nothing. Then charge to 100% until it says "Charge Complete" and see what the miles say. It may or may not help. You do not have a battery issue as batteries degrade over time especially in high heat areas; it is very normal. Also remember that the miles are just an estimate by the car's BMS.

got it. thanks I will do it again and let it sit longer.

 

[TrueTechData]

Hey all, I know this has been asked a thousand times. I've done a bunch of Googling but the UI on the Model 3 apparently has changed some and options got renamed or something because I can't find a lot of the things mentioned?

I'm just looking to refresh the topic and see if anyone has any good recommendations for me for how to conserve the range while sitting idle. I don't open the app and I have disconnected TeslaFi etc. to keep the car in deep sleep. Is there much else that can be done?

I just got my Model 3 LR+ about a month ago, and I built a personal solar setup to charge my car, I get 7-10 miles of range a day right now from it - but I lose like 1-5 miles daily while sitting idle it seems. This would be understandable if I lived somewhere where it was cold and the system was keeping the batteries at a healthy temperature, but I live in San Diego. It is 70 degrees every day and I park in the garage. Losing up to a whole kWh or two a day from sitting idle seems insane, and would add up to a lot of loss over the life of the vehicle.

Came from a Chevy Volt and it didn't lose any range, ever... so this feels bad

 

[Kimmi]

“353 miles was the 2021 M3 LR EPA rating which has a different battery.”

What battery does the 2021 LR have?

 

[jjrandorin]

Hey all, I know this has been asked a thousand times. I've done a bunch of Googling but the UI on the Model 3 apparently has changed some and options got renamed or something because I can't find a lot of the things mentioned?

I'm just looking to refresh the topic and see if anyone has any good recommendations for me for how to conserve the range while sitting idle. I don't open the app and I have disconnected TeslaFi etc. to keep the car in deep sleep. Is there much else that can be done?

I just got my Model 3 LR+ about a month ago, and I built a personal solar setup to charge my car, I get 7-10 miles of range a day right now from it - but I lose like 1-5 miles daily while sitting idle it seems. This would be understandable if I lived somewhere where it was cold and the system was keeping the batteries at a healthy temperature, but I live in San Diego. It is 70 degrees every day and I park in the garage. Losing up to a whole kWh or two a day from sitting idle seems insane, and would add up to a lot of loss over the life of the vehicle.

Came from a Chevy Volt and it didn't lose any range, ever... so this feels bad

The car should lose 2-4 miles per day while sleep. The car is not sleep while charging.

>5 miles per day means you are doing something that is keeping it awake (probably trying to charge from that "7-10 miles of range per day DIY solution".

 

[TrueTechData]

The car should lose 2-4 miles per day while sleep. The car is not sleep while charging.

>5 miles per day means you are doing something that is keeping it awake (probably trying to charge from that "7-10 miles of range per day DIY solution".

Is there no way to reduce the 2-4 miles while sleeping? That seems obnoxious, how can it need an entire kWh just sitting there in a day.

Add that up over a 10 year lifetime of the vehicle and that is $1700 of electricity cost where I live. Again, it would make more sense to me if it it wasn't 70 degrees every day here.

 

[jjrandorin]

My post was from another thread that got combined into this master thread by the mods. It is not relevant to any prior discussions going on in this master thread.

A new user was discussing that he/she saw his/her "miles" going down quicker than actual miles driven and that he/she switched over to % instead; I was commenting on that.

Yeah, sorry about that, it came along as collateral damage in moving a post to this thread.

 

[jjrandorin]

Is there no way to reduce the 2-4 miles while sleeping? That seems obnoxious, how can it need an entire kWh just sitting there in a day.

Add that up over a 10 year lifetime of the vehicle and that is $1700 of electricity cost where I live. Again, it would make more sense to me if it it wasn't 70 degrees every day here.

If you dont drive for several days and dont touch the app etc, its not quite 2-3 miles a day, but thats an average number. It doesnt sleep while its charging, so your "7-10 miles a day DIY" homebrew system is likely costing you more miles than its adding, on a tesla.

If you are down to 2 ish miles a day, that means you are not using sentry mode, are not waking the car up, etc. Your home brew system is likely costing you money if you are trying to use it with your car.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The 2020 M3 LR EPA rating was 330 miles.

322 miles actually. 2020 Tesla Model 3 Long Range Performance AWD (18in)

What battery does the 2021 LR have?

353 miles was the 2021 M3 LR EPA rating which has a different battery.

Partly true. 353 miles is obtainable with the same battery in the 2021 Model 3 vs. prior model years. 77.8kWh. This is due to the addition of the heat pump which allowed modification of the scalar, possibly slightly better overall efficiency, and prior under-rating of the 2020 model (which actually probably was able to do 332 rated miles with up-to-date software (see raw EPA data from 2020 Model 3 Performance 18" - it got 332 miles and was voluntarily reduced)).

However, later in the 2021 model year they started shipping with the "82.1kWh" battery which had the same nominal 353-mile rated range even though typically a bit more energy was available from the battery when new (about 1kWh more, typically around 79kWh).

Came from a Chevy Volt and it didn't lose any range, ever... so this feels bad

Is there no way to reduce the 2-4 miles while sleeping? That seems obnoxious, how can it need an entire kWh just sitting there in a day.

Yep, pretty annoying. However, you should be seeing closer to 1 mile per day usually, but that means you can't be anywhere near the vehicle, etc. And you can't have driven it recently. Etc. Make sure cabin overheat protection is off, etc. As was mentioned, you'd have to be careful about your home-brew system and see whether that is impacting it (disconnect the car and leave it sitting for a few days, ignoring the first day). Also don't check the app.

The reason you have to ignore the first day is that the range can go up or down by a substantial number of miles as the BMS re-estimates, with no actual change in energy content.

And yes, 1 rated mile per day is also pretty unacceptable. It makes no sense to consume 7W all the time - the car isn't doing anything (in spite of what some may claim!), and other manufacturers have figured out how to avoid this.

 

[TrueTechData]

If you dont drive for several days and dont touch the app etc, its not quite 2-3 miles a day, but thats an average number. It doesnt sleep while its charging, so your "7-10 miles a day DIY" homebrew system is likely costing you more miles than its adding, on a tesla.

If you are down to 2 ish miles a day, that means you are not using sentry mode, are not waking the car up, etc. Your home brew system is likely costing you money if you are trying to use it with your car.

I'm consistently going up anywhere between 3-6 miles per day including the idle range loss using my solar setup, so there is definitely net gain.

I charge twice a day for approximately an hour and a half to 2 hrs at 1900W using the solar setup

Also, I didn't get the solar setup because it was cost effective - I did my research. I just think it is awesome to drive purely with the sun, so I did it. Works great. Just trying to reduce that idle loss so it can be even better. I think in the summer I will be able to get to 10 mi/day added with my setup, which will be more than enough for how much I drive.

 

[jjrandorin]

I'm consistently going up anywhere between 3-6 miles per day including the idle range loss using my solar setup, so there is definitely net gain.

I charge twice a day for approximately an hour and a half to 2 hrs at 1900W using the solar setup

Also, I didn't get the solar setup because it was cost effective - I did my research. I just think it is awesome to drive purely with the sun, so I did it. Works great. Just trying to reduce that idle loss so it can be even better. I think in the summer I will be able to get to 10 mi/day added with my setup, which will be more than enough for how much I drive.

Back to your original question, I havent seen anyone get the "Average" of miles lost lower than 1-3 miles per day. I dont think you are getting it lower than that, especially if you are waking your car up to chage it twice a day.

EDIT: if anything I am saying contradicts @AlanSubie4Life or @AAKEE , please use what they said vs what I said.

 

[TrueTechData]

Yep, pretty annoying. However, you should be seeing closer to 1 mile per day usually, but that means you can't be anywhere near the vehicle, etc. And you can't have driven it recently. Etc. Make sure cabin overheat protection is off, etc. As was mentioned, you'd have to be careful about your home-brew system and see whether that is impacting it (disconnect the car and leave it sitting for a few days, ignoring the first day). Also don't check the app.

The reason you have to ignore the first day is that the range can go up or down by a substantial number of miles as the BMS re-estimates, with no actual change in energy content.

And yes, 1 rated mile per day is also pretty unacceptable. It makes no sense to consume 7W all the time - the car isn't doing anything (in spite of what some may claim!), and other manufacturers have figured out how to avoid this.

I see! Thank you for the response. My room where I work is directly above my Tesla, definitely within Bluetooth range. Are you saying I should turn off Bluetooth so the car can't talk to the phone at all and "wake up"?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I'm consistently going up anywhere between 3-6 miles per day including the idle range loss using my solar setup, so there is definitely net gain.

I charge twice a day for approximately an hour and a half to 2 hrs at 1900W using the solar setup

Also, I didn't get the solar setup because it was cost effective - I did my research. I just think it is awesome to drive purely with the sun, so I did it. Works great. Just trying to reduce that idle loss so it can be even better. I think in the summer I will be able to get to 10 mi/day added with my setup, which will be more than enough for how much I drive.

Seems fine. I think you'll likely see 1-2 miles per day loss if you leave the car unplugged completely and don't touch it in any way. Just ignore that first day.

I've checked this when out of cell contact in summer of 2021 and it's about 1 mile per day (I actually netted one mile over three days since the first night adjusted up by four miles, but I ignored that). It may be a bit higher if it can get cell contact but it would depend.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I see! Thank you for the response. My room where I work is directly above my Tesla, definitely within Bluetooth range. Are you saying I should turn off Bluetooth so the car can't talk to the phone at all and "wake up"?

I don't think that should actually matter, as long as you don't wake up the car from the app. I think it might have mattered in the past. You can play around with it and see. But again, these are long multi-day experiments where you don't touch the car at all for 3-4 days (except for a brief check after that first overnight to get a reading of the "settled" value).

Another thing that can be helpful is slapping a 12V monitor on the 12V battery which allows you to check the sleeping pattern without waking up the car (they're bluetooth connected so you can see that it is sleeping for ~8-12 hour periods then waking up to charge the 12V).

 

[TrueTechData]

Back to your original question, I havent seen anyone get the "Average" of miles lost lower than 1-3 miles per day. I dont think you are getting it lower than that, especially if you are waking your car up to chage it twice a day.

Fair enough! Thank you sir.

If I can angle my panels correctly soon, I should be able to add about 10 mi/range on a sunny day right now, and probably up to 13 ish mi/day in the summer. Still happy with that

 

[Jeremy3292]

322 miles actually. 2020 Tesla Model 3 Long Range Performance AWD (18in)

Lots of M3 LR choices in the 2020 model year. You linked an AWD Performance model. It’s 330 miles on the M3 LR RWD. See link below. OP didn’t state which LR variant it was. The point was it’s not 353 miles EPA.

2020 Tesla Model 3 Long Range

Fuel Economy of the 2020 Tesla Model 3 Long Range. Compare the gas mileage and greenhouse gas emissions of the 2020 Tesla Model 3 Long Range side-by-side with other cars and trucks

www.fueleconomy.gov

Partly true. 353 miles is obtainable with the same battery in the 2021 Model 3 vs. prior model years. 77.8kWh. This is due to the addition of the heat pump which allowed modification of the scalar, possibly slightly better overall efficiency, and prior under-rating of the 2020 model (which actually probably was able to do 332 rated miles with up-to-date software (see raw EPA data from 2020 Model 3 Performance 18" - it got 332 miles and was voluntarily reduced)).

However, later in the 2021 model year they started shipping with the "82.1kWh" battery which had the same nominal 353-mile rated range even though typically a bit more energy was available from the battery when new (about 1kWh more, typically around 79kWh).

The OP was specifically talking about the rated EPA miles which were never close to 353 miles in the 2020 model year. For the 2021 model year the EPA rating was changed to 353 miles due to the 82 kWh pack becoming standard. There is no M3 LR with an EPA rating of 353 miles outside of the 2021 M3 LR with the 82 kWh packs.

Ans again, my post was merged from another thread so it isn’t relevant to anything that’s being discussed here Unless the original OP posts about it.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Lots of M3 LR choices in the 2020 model year. You linked an AWD Performance model. It’s 330 miles on the M3 LR RWD. See link below. OP didn’t state which LR variant it was. The point was it’s not 353 miles EPA.

2020 Tesla Model 3 Long Range

Fuel Economy of the 2020 Tesla Model 3 Long Range. Compare the gas mileage and greenhouse gas emissions of the 2020 Tesla Model 3 Long Range side-by-side with other cars and trucks

www.fueleconomy.gov

The OP was specifically talking about the rated EPA miles which were never close to 353 miles in the 2020 model year. For the 2021 model year the EPA rating was changed to 353 miles due to the 82 kWh pack becoming standard

Sorry that was a mistake but the same EPA value (322 miles) applies to the AWD (even though the raw EPA data differed for these two vehicles in 2020). 2020 Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD

You've quoted the 2020 LR RWD, which is rare enough that I doubt that is what is being discussed here.

And yes, it's not 353 miles, which was the point. It started at 322. (Battery size is the same though if you're comparing to early 2021!)

 

[Jeremy3292]

I just purchased a 2020 LR with 13k miles last week. I charged to 90% when I got home and when I switch the % to mi it only showed 252.

I did some reading online and found I should recalibrate the battery. So I got it down to 9%, let it sit for 1 hour. I then charged to 100%. when it hit 100% the mi showed 284. I immediately drove it down to just below 90%.

Why is it not showing the 353 like advertised? do I have a battery issue?

My comments were in response to this new users post that was merged into this thread just fyi. @AlanSubie4Life

 

[jjrandorin]

Fair enough! Thank you sir.

If I can angle my panels correctly soon, I should be able to add about 10 mi/range on a sunny day right now, and probably up to 13 ish mi/day in the summer. Still happy with that

Oh believe me, I "get" the desire to charge using solar. I also get the "homebrew" aspect of "can I do this? lets figure out how to do this..."

I have a "regular" (professionally installed) PV / Solar system on my roof, and also have tesla powerwalls (whose purpose is not directly for charging the car, but I digress....). There is something very "empowering" about running your home mostly (or all) off solar power, and one doesnt have to be a "save the planet" eco warrior to feel that way.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I just purchased a 2020 LR with 13k miles last week. I charged to 90% when I got home and when I switch the % to mi it only showed 252.

I did some reading online and found I should recalibrate the battery. So I got it down to 9%, let it sit for 1 hour. I then charged to 100%. when it hit 100% the mi showed 284. I immediately drove it down to just below 90%.

Why is it not showing the 353 like advertised? do I have a battery issue?

Summarizing the discussion above, your vehicle has about 11% capacity loss from its original 322 rated miles, so you're doing just fine. This is normal.

Plenty of discussion here about how to limit loss going forward (read the last 10 pages or so) but I wouldn't worry about it too much. Expect that it will NOT lose capacity at the same rate going forward...much slower reductions from here, unless you at some point have a (apparently rare) battery failure. Which there's no reason to suspect would happen at this point.

Always a good idea to check the battery when buying a used vehicle. It's your only opportunity to pick up a "gem" of a battery where the initial capacity loss is already known (not a luxury you have with new vehicles). If you find one with low capacity loss (5% or less if it's a year or two old, while 10% is typical), it's a great find. And it's easy to figure out before you buy the vehicle.