Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

[WhiteWi]

I have stopped looking at my battery range since I moved from SR RWD 3 to LR AWD Y. I just kept in percentage and I’m having trouble using more than 10% a day. I don’t know if it’s the heat pump, long range or both but this LR is fabulous

Me too, I just check once a month to see where we stand. I can live even with 220 miles of range. Can’t wait for our Model Y!

 

[AAKEE]

Yes, I agree with you based on your data. My point was that a battery cycling life test from say 10-50% rather than 25-50% will produce deeper cycles and usually result in faster capacity loss.

I think we can look at it like this:

The DoD/Dept of Discharge causes wear, but in the low end of the SOC range the cycles doesnt wear almost at all.
One cycle 25-50% have quite small wear, but if you continue to discharge to 10%, you only add the very little wear between 10-25%. That has a smaller effect than another 25-50% cycle, so still better.
(We can think of the battery as a rubber ballon, the less inflated the less wear.)

Anyway, 25-50% will cause so small wear that this is only a hypothetical discussion.
The battery will probably last “forever”(longer than a model 3) anyway.

The absolute main part of the degradation will be calendar aging and the only cars that comes even close to even parts of cycle aging and calendar aging is the ones doing very big cycles and a lot of driving each year.
We that minimize calendar aging by using a lower SOC and “in time charging” also will minimize cyclic aging by smaller DoD in a low SOC region, so we will have even less cyclic aging.

 

[AAKEE]

Armed with this info, this Winter I plan to:
* Keep the car in my unheated garage (stays around 40°F/5°C in winter)
* Keep the charge limit around 50% SoC
* Not charge over 50% except immediately before driving when I will need the range (my electricity is not on a TOU plan)

During the remainder of the first year:
* Get an air conditioning unit large enough to keep the garage cool in Summer, preferably no higher than 75°F/24°C
* Continue keeping the “sleep” SoC low as above
* Try to keep the total mileage under 5000mi/8000km in the first year (this might be harder than expected)
* Minimal or no Supercharging

Since the first year or so is crucial in terms of calendar aging, I want to avoid the frequently-reported 10% capacity loss after the first year.

Questions:
Is there anything else I should plan to do in the first year to minimize the early degradation?

Does anyone know the SoC the packs are charged to before being put on trucks/trains/ships for delivery to sales/pickup centers?

Is there any way to request a lowered SoC percentage at pickup? I’d rather them not charge past 70% if possible. The last two (used) cars I have bought from Tesla were charged to 100% SoC, and had probably sat at that charge level for days.

You do not need to bee that drastic.
First, cycles (= miles) doesnt wear that much. Theres really no need to limit that part. If you do 20K km /12.5k mi a year, thats probably way below 1% capacity loss even if you use very big cycles( a NCA would stand some 1000 full cycles (400.000km and loose about 20%, equals 1% for 20k km)

While SuC causes more wear than home charging with a AC charger, its still less than the calendar aging part. Much less.

I have done about 15% SuC of the total energy/miles. I still have more or less full range after 11 months of owning the car. (Got it 30/12 2020). I have 28500km/17700mi on the Odometer.
Last full charge was one week ago, 507-508km and teslafi shows 504.5km today.
With scan my Tesla I can see that the nominal full pack is 80.4kWh, it was 80.7kWh a few days after delivery when I connected SMT. Its hard to define what the original capacity really was(most ppl get just above 80kWh as the highest value?).
If I use the marked capacity 82.1kWh, I havent lost more than about 1.7kWh or about 2% of the capacity. In reality they barely hold 82.1kWh when new as far as we know, so not more than 2% loss for me the forst year.

While it is possible to minimize degradation even more, its probably not worth it.

Keeping the mileage down will make your drop per mile look higher as the main degradation is driver is Time x SOC x Ambient temp.

My tips:
- Charge *late*. Set the charging to finish before next days use( an hour or two or so). Do not charge to 90% an leave it for the weekend. 20 to 30% is good for the night, but “0” to 55% is also okey.
- Use as low SOC as possible and charge daily(or twice if needed) If 50-55% is enough for a day, charge to that value.
Theres a big step in calendar aging above about 56-57% SOC.( see other post from me and *calendar aging*). This only comes into play when leaving it charged for time, a quick up to 100% and drive doesnt matter.
- as long as the ambient is 20-25C or below, thats good enough. 10 or 15C will give a little less degradation but you will be fine with 20C as well. In hot summer days, its good to keep the SOC down. If you live in a hot climate, the keep SOC low during hot days is important.

My range in teslafi:

 

[clerks]

From the recent posts, it seems like taking delivery in Winter is best for the battery as it will be parked at low ambient temperatures. I take delivery of a M3P in about two weeks (EDD in signature.)

Armed with this info, this Winter I plan to:
* Keep the car in my unheated garage (stays around 40°F/5°C in winter)
* Keep the charge limit around 50% SoC
* Not charge over 50% except immediately before driving when I will need the range (my electricity is not on a TOU plan)

During the remainder of the first year:
* Get an air conditioning unit large enough to keep the garage cool in Summer, preferably no higher than 75°F/24°C
* Continue keeping the “sleep” SoC low as above
* Try to keep the total mileage under 5000mi/8000km in the first year (this might be harder than expected)
* Minimal or no Supercharging

Since the first year or so is crucial in terms of calendar aging, I want to avoid the frequently-reported 10% capacity loss after the first year.

Questions:
Is there anything else I should plan to do in the first year to minimize the early degradation?

Does anyone know the SoC the packs are charged to before being put on trucks/trains/ships for delivery to sales/pickup centers?

Is there any way to request a lowered SoC percentage at pickup? I’d rather them not charge past 70% if possible. The last two (used) cars I have bought from Tesla were charged to 100% SoC, and had probably sat at that charge level for days.

This is too much work. That would ruin the experience for me. That said it's your car so do what works for you.

 

[clerks]

@akkee since you have a performance doesn't charging to 55 percent take away the fun?

 

[AAKEE]

@akkee since you have a performance doesn't charging to 55 percent take away the fun?

Well, 55% is my regular charging, goin to/from work. I charge higher when I feel the need for speed.
Also, during winter at this latitude we use winter tyres with spikes. These wouldnt suvrive the winter if all the power is used (dont aks me how I know this. Powerfull Audis doesnt come with the "Chill mode" )

Also, the M3P looses power quite quick with speed. My hobby car is way faster above 100km/h so if I really need to feel the force, that one is the way to go.

 

[KenC]

From the recent posts, it seems like taking delivery in Winter is best for the battery as it will be parked at low ambient temperatures. I take delivery of a M3P in about two weeks (EDD in signature.)

Armed with this info, this Winter I plan to:
* Keep the car in my unheated garage (stays around 40°F/5°C in winter)
* Keep the charge limit around 50% SoC
* Not charge over 50% except immediately before driving when I will need the range (my electricity is not on a TOU plan)

During the remainder of the first year:
* Get an air conditioning unit large enough to keep the garage cool in Summer, preferably no higher than 75°F/24°C
* Continue keeping the “sleep” SoC low as above
* Try to keep the total mileage under 5000mi/8000km in the first year (this might be harder than expected)
* Minimal or no Supercharging

Since the first year or so is crucial in terms of calendar aging, I want to avoid the frequently-reported 10% capacity loss after the first year.

Questions:
Is there anything else I should plan to do in the first year to minimize the early degradation?

Does anyone know the SoC the packs are charged to before being put on trucks/trains/ships for delivery to sales/pickup centers?

Is there any way to request a lowered SoC percentage at pickup? I’d rather them not charge past 70% if possible. The last two (used) cars I have bought from Tesla were charged to 100% SoC, and had probably sat at that charge level for days.

While your plan seems like a lot of effort, I'm all for it as another datapoint, to see if current best practices actually are best practices; or whether battery longevity is totally random, as it sometimes feels.

Whether the first year is "crucial" is an interesting theory. I may have missed it. Are you just basing that upon the common initial high degradation seen in the first year, ~5%? ~10% range loss are generally the worst-performers after only a year.

The SOC levels before they go out? Ha! Dunno, but mine arrived in Maine, mid-December, with ZERO SOC, not including the bottom reserve. Since I was taking home delivery at a rest area, the driver unloaded it assuming that there was a charger nearby, but there wasn't! I had to push the car back onto the transport, in order to take it to a supercharger 10 miles away.

Can you ask for a lower SOC? It really depends upon your delivery center. Charging up to 100%, pre-delivery, doesn't seem to be the norm.

 

[AAKEE]

While your plan seems like a lot of effort, I'm all for it as another datapoint, to see if current best practices actually are best practices; or whether battery longevity is totally random, as it sometimes feels.

Whether the first year is "crucial" is an interesting theory. I may have missed it. Are you just basing that upon the common initial high degradation seen in the first year, ~5%? ~10% range loss are generally the worst-performers after only a year.

The SOC levels before they go out? Ha! Dunno, but mine arrived in Maine, mid-December, with ZERO SOC, not including the bottom reserve. Since I was taking home delivery at a rest area, the driver unloaded it assuming that there was a charger nearby, but there wasn't! I had to push the car back onto the transport, in order to take it to a supercharger 10 miles away.
View attachment 735314

Can you ask for a lower SOC? It really depends upon your delivery center. Charging up to 100%, pre-delivery, doesn't seem to be the norm.

That’s low!

I got mine with 97%, If I got it right they charged it up close before delivery, knowing I had a 1000km drive home.

@BigNick:

Even 100% isnt an issue if they charge it up close to delivery.
There are more than one research report showing that the worst calendar aging on Panasonic NCA-cells like the one Tesla use happens below 100%. The research data shows that about 75-90% might be as bad or worse than 100%.
I’m not saying people should start leaving their cars with 100%, instead it could ve wise to see that long time at 85% not is that good. Or, that the battery wont be bricked for some hours at 100%.

Se attached pics for examples of calendar aging.

 

[Dave EV]

I think we can look at it like this:

The DoD/Dept of Discharge causes wear, but in the low end of the SOC range the cycles doesnt wear almost at all.
One cycle 25-50% have quite small wear, but if you continue to discharge to 10%, you only add the very little wear between 10-25%. That has a smaller effect than another 25-50% cycle, so still better.
(We can think of the battery as a rubber ballon, the less inflated the less wear.)

Anyway, 25-50% will cause so small wear that this is only a hypothetical discussion.
The battery will probably last “forever”(longer than a model 3) anyway.

The absolute main part of the degradation will be calendar aging and the only cars that comes even close to even parts of cycle aging and calendar aging is the ones doing very big cycles and a lot of driving each year.
We that minimize calendar aging by using a lower SOC and “in time charging” also will minimize cyclic aging by smaller DoD in a low SOC region, so we will have even less cyclic aging.

Yes, based on the data, I have to agree - people with lots of miles don't seem to have any worse capacity loss than people with low miles - for most it appears to be mostly time-based calendar loss.

 

[Keggers74]

So I charged fully to 100% in my July 2020 Model 3 SR+, unplugged and immediately drove non stop on the motorway for 224 km and was now at 7% battery. BUT, the car says I have used 42 kWh since last charge.

That suggests I have a useable battery of 45 kWh for 100%.

I understood my car should have 49 kWh useable battery.

Am I missing something?

Note the car didn’t sit before or after unplugged and it was one drive without stopping. And I’ve only 13500km on the car.

 

[vegasron76]

Up until today I didn't realize there were any SR vehicles sold in 2020 model year (or in 2020 in general). But, it seems that there have been. I am not talking about the SR+ - obviously those have been sold this year.

For range/constant documentation, for anyone who has an SR (not SR+), which is a 2020 model:

1) What was the initial range in rated miles @ 100% when new, indicated? (It looks like it should be 220 miles based on fueleconomy.gov...2020 Tesla Model 3 Standard Range)

2) If you have any TeslaFi or Stats historical data for projected rated range as the car has aged, would it be possible to post screen captures?

3) Please state the date of purchase/door pillar info.

4) If you bought the 2020 SR at end of 2019, please indicate whether you ever got a "range update" or any other software update.

The issue here that is weird to me is that we have a screen capture of the Energy Consumption screen from an SR 2020 showing the constant is 210Wh/rmi now. If the rated range when new is 220 miles, that would imply just 46.2kWh of usable capacity including the buffer.

But Tesla extracted 50.2kWh from this vehicle in their testing (in 2019)!

So that doesn't align - it's not even remotely close as compared to other vehicles. Just trying to figure out what is happening/has happened. There are a couple possibilities, but wanted to see what the data suggest.


Also, an SR 2019 owner can help here:

If you have a 2019 SR (not SR+), can you capture a picture of the energy consumption screen, capturing:

First, Set Energy display to DISTANCE (NOT ENERGY), then capture, at a high SoC (greater than 80%, ideally 100% but it doesn't need to be):

1) Rated miles remaining:
2) The Energy Consumption graph showing: Projected range, and the recent consumption number (last x miles average)

So three numbers should be visible in the picture: Rated miles remaining, projected range, and recent consumption. And it has to be at an SoC > 80%.

The idea here with the 2019 data is to confirm that the constant on the SR 2019 is still 219Wh/rmi. Just wanted to confirm that is what it has always been (this is what I would expect; the constant typically does not change except in special cases).

I do not believe it is the battery but software updates and issues.

 

[vegasron76]

I do not believe it is the battery but software updates and issues.

MY standard range was around 256 to 250 when it was new.Now it is at 218 with battery at 92 percent capacity.

 

[RAZL]

I had a 19 sr. 220 new. Dropped to around 210 within 5k miles or so. 198 (10%) at around 25k mi. Part of loss may be due to sporadic driving during 2020. I did a few <10pct to 90pct and more consistently drove it and it was back to 210 or so by 27k mi earlier this year.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

So I charged fully to 100% in my July 2020 Model 3 SR+, unplugged and immediately drove non stop on the motorway for 224 km and was now at 7% battery. BUT, the car says I have used 42 kWh since last charge.

That suggests I have a useable battery of 45 kWh for 100%.

I understood my car should have 49 kWh useable battery.

Am I missing something?

Note the car didn’t sit before or after unplugged and it was one drive without stopping. And I’ve only 13500km on the car.

I predict you have:

((223.6mi*190Wh/mi/0.93)/0.955/0.99 ) /52.5kWh *250rmi = 230rmi at 100%

Pack would be 48.3kWh with 46.1kWh usable above 0%.

Unfortunately you did not capture your rated miles at 100% to cross check the result. (The result could be off by 1kWh or more, for a variety of reasons.). You could also give any rated mile number at a reasonably high % to cross check.

Your car started around 52.5kWh with 50.1kWh usable above 0%.

Seems like with just 8% loss, your car battery is loving the cool weather in Ireland!

 

[ro_explorer]

Try to keep the total mileage under 5000mi/8000km in the first year

Good luck with this
My LR is almost 6 months old and I have 16500 Km on it already.

 

[jaz4uk1]

Ordered my M3LR July and Telsa UK web site shown 360 miles. Got the tesla 17th Sept and it was showing 330 mile range from day one. I have not seen any information on battery size on any paperwork or head unit, app.

So using TelaFi and home charger to determine a few things.
I can see at 1,000 miles range has increased to 335 and now at 2,000 miles range is 340 all good so far.

I normally charge from 50% to 90%.

Last charge I added 28.5Kw 38% battery and claimed added 127 miles. This works out at 75 to 77KW/hr battery and range of 344 miles. (some loss as the car is not sleeping and efficiency of the inverter ect).

I have read there is a hidden range so it could be 82kw? Is there a way to check

Now the issue is range...

So did 2 runs at 43 miles both took 16% battery. TeslaFi showed 259w/mile (53 range miles) and claimed used 10.8kw each
Quick maths 10.8/16*100 only gives 67kW battery pack.

SO the loss should have been 12% based on 82kW not the 16%.
OR I used 13.1kW not 10.8kW indicated so not 259w/m but more like 304w/mile

So I have a real world range of 269 miles at best and not 344 or even 360.

If I have the 2021 pack I have also read that they do not mind regular 100% non supercharge.

 

[clerks]

After doing a few 90 to below 10 cycles I was able to recover 8 miles of range fwiw. So there is some value in trying this. Back to 296 from a low of 288. Still 19 miles of loss in less than a year but an improvement.

 

[BigNick]

I stopped by the SC 3 days before taking delivery of my previous (used) Tesla, and it was on the charger, showing 249 of 253 miles on the dash and charging had stopped. So I know that pack had sat at high SoC for at least 3 days. Not as important in terms of calendar aging, because the battery was already nearly 4 years old, but still not great for it.

 

[bro1999]

Picked up my SR+ 3 July of this year (NCA battery, 263 rated miles). After 8,900 miles, Teslafi is telling me my max range is now 251 miles (4.4% loss). Usually charge to 90% every day and drive it down to 20-30% most days before plugging in, FWIW.

Looking at the drive logs, I've been consistently been using 15-20% more rated range compared to actual miles driven. Need to really granny the car to get actual miles driven to match or exceed the rated miles used.

 

[jrmfreitas]

Hello,

I've just received my brand new Model 3 Long-Range (614 km variant), however noticed that the car advertises 570 km range when fully charged (after its very first charge).

Is it normal to have such gap? I have the 18" inch wheels (without the aero caps), but the car displays the 19" inch wheels on the control panel (as I bought those for summer).

Note: Surrounding temperate is somewhere around 8 C.

Is anyone else experiencing the same issue? I am starting to suspect I got delivered the 580 km variant, even though the car leaflet advertises 614 km.

Would appreciate some feedback from other Model 3 owners.

João