Need explanation or enlightenment - My new 2020 X LR+ 350 "rated" mi MX gets 260 miles really. See the TeslaFi info below. I am getting over 350 "rated" miles, whatever that means. So what does one need to do to get "rated" miles? What I learned from this trip (which was an out and back, Mesa AZ to Eherenberg AZ Supercharger and back) is that highway trips in the 2020 MX take about 35% more clock time than the same trip in an ICE vehicle (2 road hours and 45 min SC time). This was somewhat of a disappointment. So like everyone else on the road, in AZ I drive 80 (in a 75). Not much ascent/descent.
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Rated (350) vs real (260) miles?
- Thread starter Bob Denny
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X Fan
Active Member
Elevation
Wind
New Tires ( you don't say how long you've had your X, but tires need to be broken in )
Speed bursts
Size of tires
All can impact efficiency....I'm assuming you don't have the P version, correct
Wind
New Tires ( you don't say how long you've had your X, but tires need to be broken in )
Speed bursts
Size of tires
All can impact efficiency....I'm assuming you don't have the P version, correct
Not P, LR+ -> Long Range Plus. The tire pressures are exactly as on the door placard, 40 psi cold. Elevation: you can see the very minimal elevation changes in the graphs, 45 ft net in 75 miles, and and 930 ft net in 87 miles. This is nothing. Most of this trip was on full autopilot, the energy graph was quite flat, no jackrabbit starts etc. Tires are the standard 20" silver wheels. You can see the ODO for tire mileage, 493-685.
What is "rated miles" then?
What is "rated miles" then?
Tesomega
Member
80mph will do that to you.... (rated is based on 55+ mph, I think with various other parameters)
Tam
Well-Known Member
One just needs to replicate EPA treadmill test: city speed average is 20MPH and highway speed average is 48MPH.
Higher speed would consume too much energy so the speed for the testing must be capped to make the results look good.
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
Will not get Highway rated MPG at +80 mph on any ICE SUV as well.
YMMV.
At 70 mph you can probably get from Mesa to Quartzite or Eherenberg Superchargers without Supercharging. Will give similar round trip times as ICE SUV. If you can't quite make it, a easy 15 minute stop to charge and get a Wendys at that truck stop will easily get you back home with juice to spare. Eherenberg has the new V3 250 amp faster chargers. Really charges fast when you battery is low.
I just drove from San Diego to Scottsdale. Only needed to stop at Eherenberg for 20 minutes at their fast chargers. Barely time to use the bathroom and grab a burger.
Rated miles is what the EPA estimates your car will get in typical driving cycle at County and City driving combinations. At +80 MPH few cars achieve their EPA estimates.
If it was raining on your trip, your energy use will go up as well.
Also, you arrived at Supercharger with 28% remaining. There was no reason for you to hang around until you recharged to 89%. That is the main reason you experienced long charging time. 15 minutes should have been enough to get you home.
YMMV.
At 70 mph you can probably get from Mesa to Quartzite or Eherenberg Superchargers without Supercharging. Will give similar round trip times as ICE SUV. If you can't quite make it, a easy 15 minute stop to charge and get a Wendys at that truck stop will easily get you back home with juice to spare. Eherenberg has the new V3 250 amp faster chargers. Really charges fast when you battery is low.
I just drove from San Diego to Scottsdale. Only needed to stop at Eherenberg for 20 minutes at their fast chargers. Barely time to use the bathroom and grab a burger.
Rated miles is what the EPA estimates your car will get in typical driving cycle at County and City driving combinations. At +80 MPH few cars achieve their EPA estimates.
If it was raining on your trip, your energy use will go up as well.
Also, you arrived at Supercharger with 28% remaining. There was no reason for you to hang around until you recharged to 89%. That is the main reason you experienced long charging time. 15 minutes should have been enough to get you home.
40 psi Cold !! Which tires and wheels?
My 20" LR Raven says 45 psi Cold.
If you have 22" Wheels they will eat a bunch of range.
EDIT: I see you said you do have the 20" are you sure the placard says 40?
Rated miles measures energy left in your battery, ie a portion of the energy left from the test cycle drive. Unless you drive exactly like the test cycle (max 55mph, 72F/21C, never stop until the battery runs out) you will not get those miles. Use the % display on the dash and use the energy application on the center console to estimate your remaining range.
EPA ratings are based off 362 Wh/mi (2016) for highway. If you can somehow manage to achieve that, that's when you'll see the real world miles flattening out to the rated. In addition, the cold PSI for my X said 42 psi on the placard.
Yes, for long road trips (requiring a charging stop), driving in an EV will take longer than driving in an ICE because an EV may need to stop more frequently for refueling and those stops will be longer.
However...
With an X LR+, even at 80 MPH, it should be possible to drive 2 hours without having to make a charging stop. So saying a 2 hour drive requires a 45 minute charging stop isn't reasonable.
With our 2018 X 100D, rated range is around 300 miles. If we charge to 100% before we leave home, we're able to drive 210 miles before we stop for supercharging, with about half of that drive at 80 MPH, getting to the supercharger with 5-15% of charge (depending upon conditions).
The Tesla navigation app can help considerably in managing charging stops. When we drive from Houston to Dallas, we'll enter our final destination and the navigation software will provide advice on how long we should stay at the supercharger to make it to our destination. We don't need to stay there for 45 minutes and get back to an 80-100% charge, since we'll need to drive less than 100 miles after the supercharging stop.
If you can start with enough charge to get to the destination without a charging stop, then an EV is the same as an ICE. If you need to stop once, the drive will be a little bit longer due to the charging stop. For very long trips requiring multiple charging stops (where you'll likely need to stay until you get to 80-90% charge), then the charging time will become a larger factor.
Though... We've found the extra rest time while charging has made the long drives easier. Stopping about every 3 hours for 30-40 minutes provides time to hit the restroom, get a snack/meal, check e-mail, play a game, ... Plus, if you can plan the stops when it's time to get a meal, the charging time will likely take about the same time it takes to get the meal.
As Tesla increases range (close to 400 miles of rated range for S) and more V3 superchargers are deployed, the impact of charging will become less in the next few years.
However...
With an X LR+, even at 80 MPH, it should be possible to drive 2 hours without having to make a charging stop. So saying a 2 hour drive requires a 45 minute charging stop isn't reasonable.
With our 2018 X 100D, rated range is around 300 miles. If we charge to 100% before we leave home, we're able to drive 210 miles before we stop for supercharging, with about half of that drive at 80 MPH, getting to the supercharger with 5-15% of charge (depending upon conditions).
The Tesla navigation app can help considerably in managing charging stops. When we drive from Houston to Dallas, we'll enter our final destination and the navigation software will provide advice on how long we should stay at the supercharger to make it to our destination. We don't need to stay there for 45 minutes and get back to an 80-100% charge, since we'll need to drive less than 100 miles after the supercharging stop.
If you can start with enough charge to get to the destination without a charging stop, then an EV is the same as an ICE. If you need to stop once, the drive will be a little bit longer due to the charging stop. For very long trips requiring multiple charging stops (where you'll likely need to stay until you get to 80-90% charge), then the charging time will become a larger factor.
Though... We've found the extra rest time while charging has made the long drives easier. Stopping about every 3 hours for 30-40 minutes provides time to hit the restroom, get a snack/meal, check e-mail, play a game, ... Plus, if you can plan the stops when it's time to get a meal, the charging time will likely take about the same time it takes to get the meal.
As Tesla increases range (close to 400 miles of rated range for S) and more V3 superchargers are deployed, the impact of charging will become less in the next few years.
MXLRplus
Active Member
If you bought a gas SUV with a 23 mpg Monroney but it achieved 17 mpg at 80 mph in cold weather, most people would understand.
Now, do a trip and use your foot to control your speed to a maximum of 65 mph with the tires at the recommended cold inflation. Watch it jump. No car built that I know of will get EPA #'s at 80 mph. The Corvette base model will come the closest, the EV that will come the closest today is the I-Pace. It will probably hit it because it's been recalibrated since the EPA test.
Now, do a trip and use your foot to control your speed to a maximum of 65 mph with the tires at the recommended cold inflation. Watch it jump. No car built that I know of will get EPA #'s at 80 mph. The Corvette base model will come the closest, the EV that will come the closest today is the I-Pace. It will probably hit it because it's been recalibrated since the EPA test.
That was one "leg". My assumption was a "long range" drive with multiple legs. Each 2 hours requires 45 min to top back up. See my TeslaFi data. Consider a cross-country drive and compare to the time for an ICE vehicle at the same speeds and conditions.
Since charging significantly slows down as the battery charge level increase, there is an increasing time penalty for waiting for more charge than you need to reach the next charging stop. Tesla's navigation app will help with this, and recommend how much charge you should need to get to the next charging stop, and will avoid recommending overcharging. "Topping up" is only needed if the distance to the next charging stop will require 80 to 90% of your battery. Otherwise, you can save considerable time by stopping the charging early.
As a long-time Tesla owner since the beginning of 2013, we've done a lot of road trips of varying lengths. Before the current navigation app (version 2.0), we had to manually plan the charging stops for long distance trips and calculate how much charge we should have before leaving each stop. With the current NAV 2.0 app, the software does this for you, and makes charging optimization much easier.
For drives requiring more than one charging stop, we pre-plan the superchargers we'll likely stop at - and research where we will stop for meals near the charging stop. For those stops, because we'll be eating a meal, we'll usually plan to "top off" the charging, since the time required to get the extra charge isn't wasted while we spending time to eat.
Until EV's have over 400 miles of range (Tesla could break that barrier soon) and charging times get down to around 15 minutes to go from 10-90% (V3 supercharging also gets closer to that), then long distance trips (especially those with more than 1 charging stop) will take longer in an EV than an ICE. And will require some pre-planning to make sure there is a place to charge along the route and at the destination.
And for those ICE owners not interested in accepting this, they may be better off in waiting a little longer before making the change to EVs.
However... With the Covid-19 crisis, it's great that we can avoid going to a gas station - because we can "refuel" at home...
As a long-time Tesla owner since the beginning of 2013, we've done a lot of road trips of varying lengths. Before the current navigation app (version 2.0), we had to manually plan the charging stops for long distance trips and calculate how much charge we should have before leaving each stop. With the current NAV 2.0 app, the software does this for you, and makes charging optimization much easier.
For drives requiring more than one charging stop, we pre-plan the superchargers we'll likely stop at - and research where we will stop for meals near the charging stop. For those stops, because we'll be eating a meal, we'll usually plan to "top off" the charging, since the time required to get the extra charge isn't wasted while we spending time to eat.
Until EV's have over 400 miles of range (Tesla could break that barrier soon) and charging times get down to around 15 minutes to go from 10-90% (V3 supercharging also gets closer to that), then long distance trips (especially those with more than 1 charging stop) will take longer in an EV than an ICE. And will require some pre-planning to make sure there is a place to charge along the route and at the destination.
And for those ICE owners not interested in accepting this, they may be better off in waiting a little longer before making the change to EVs.
However... With the Covid-19 crisis, it's great that we can avoid going to a gas station - because we can "refuel" at home...
Most people's cross country drives (if they ever do them) are measured in days, not minutes. Entire days at a time would be dedicated to a cross country trip anyway, so I don't see why a couple hours of that are going to matter that much anyway. I did a 5,000+ mile trip halfway across the country and back a couple years ago in 11 days, and I was averaging about 600 miles a day. Yes, there is some extra time to it, but if you go in expecting to take some breaks every 2-3 hours to get a snack or coffee or something, it doesn't seem too unreasonable.
I think the best thing to help adjust to this is to already be decided that you are going to go walk somewhere. Just pick some place. Look at what's around on Google maps and go. Don't just sit in the car and wait for time to pass. That is always going to make things seem boring and to take forever. But if I go walk to some place and get something, then you can make 10-15 minutes disappear like nothing browsing around on email and Facebook on your phone, and then you walk back to the car, and it didn't really seem like much time.
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