Really hot for the rear facing seats

[BillShepp]

I didn't get rear facing seats for several reasons, not the least of which is I thought they were a gimmick to allow Tesla to make a marketing claim (7 passengers). They have always felt like an afterthought to me and this overheating/ventilation issue confirms that.

On the contrary, these seats work exactly as intended for us. We need the ability to carry four kids for school carpool, and hated the thought of getting a minivan or larger SUV just to accommodate the two or three mornings a week during the school year when we need the extra seating. We park in a garage and temps are always reasonable in the morning in Northern California, so there's no issue at all for carpools, nor for the occasional afternoon playdate or such requiring the jumpseats. We don't use them on longer trips, in part because we don't want the kids that isolated from us and in part our younger daughter is prone to carsickness, which seems to be heightened facing backwards. Nonetheless, the jumpseats serve their purpose beautifully for us.

Bill

 

[Arnold Panz]

I'm on both sides of this debate. I'd love to have better air flow back there, but understand as an early adopter that Tesla wasn't going to get 100% of the car perfect and am pretty forgiving in that regard. BTW, I made my reservation sight unseen (I was P96 originally), and upgraded to a Sig before we even had the test ride event at the factory a year and a half ago, so there was no way for someone like me to be able to inspect the car to determine what the air flow would be like back there. And being from Florida (and knowing the problems that the Roadster had generally with A/C and cooling the car), I asked numerous questions about the A/C, the panoramic roof (there's a whole thread on that for Florida peeps), the third row etc., and was given many assurances during the long wait period.

That said, I tend to agree with Bill -- I have no intention of putting anyone in the back seat for an hour-plus drive, even if we had good air flow, because I just assume that a kid would get car sick driving backwards for that long a period of time. For the short hops that we use it (car pools, taking cousins to dinner etc.), it's really perfect, and the kids love it. I'd also note that, other than weekends, I'm never on the road when the sun is at its hottest, and in the early morning and evenings it's much less egregious. The biggest thing is pre-cooling the car -- it's freezing for me, but worth it to get the kids cool air. That and the small, battery-operated fans, are enough for anything up to thirty minutes or so. Beyond that, and we're in my wife's SUV.

Speaking of which, the Model X will solve all of this with a third row front-facing! Less than two years away (we hope!).

 

[100thMonkey]

I have found a solution that works very well for us, it's been tested up to 111F exterior temp. tinting is not enough... IMHO, Tesla is going to have to add ventilation, there is just no way around it.

Our MOD:
in addition to preconditioning and adding a very heavy tint to the back (28%), we also added two battery operated fans in preparation for our 2K mile trip down to CA through the heat wave. we got these fans at Fred Meyer, they are "02 Cool" brand, we added Eneloop rechargables, which give a 10 hour burn time on full blast... very nice for long road trips. the battery compartment of the fan is doughnut shaped, with a whole in the middle, which turns out to be key for mounting. I added felt stickies to the bottom that comes in contact with the roll bar to avoid rubbing and used a handy bike tire tool to secure and adjust tension for a firm hold. they are easy to take on and off for battery charging. see pictures for how I mounted them on the roll bar by putting multiple zip ties together and lacing them over the bar. I point them toward the middle back of the car to push the hot air back out of the jump seat area to the sides. *** do not open the Pano roof with these in place *** (sorry the photos are upside down, this is my first time uploading to this site, not sure what I did wrong).

 

[Alpha]

I know for a fact that Tesla is hard at work on coming up with a genuine solution. I don't know what form that will ultimately take. But they have intimated to me that there are more ways to address the problem then at first meets the eye. If nothing is announced by the end of the summer, I think they really will have a crisis on their hands. We aren't even into the dog days yet, and the summer surely will make it patently clear to many that what they are recommending is woefully inadequate (as we already have confirmed.)

P.S. that's a creative solution, 100thMonkey

 

[100thMonkey]

not to sensationalize it, but my concern is that someone is going to get hurt and it's going to blow up from there. it's no small matter, small children can get overwhelmed easily and end up in distress. a few minutes running into a store can go longer than expected and the hot sun, to a new owner, can be incredibly unforgiving with respect to that back area.

while they are at it, they should offer an upgrade option for those wishing to flip the rear camera to monitor their kids in the jump seats. seems like it should be pretty easy, given the wiring for the outside camera is right there.

 

[Kaivball]

Well it's the legal limit here - so not much more I can do...

.

You have a legal limit on your REAR window?

As anal as California is, our tiny laws only apply to the windshield and driver and passenger window.

We have no regulation for rear passenger and rear windows.

I went llumar "limo tint" black and that blocks a lot of heat.

 

[Alpha]

You have a legal limit on your REAR window?

As anal as California is, our tiny laws only apply to the windshield and driver and passenger window.

We have no regulation for rear passenger and rear windows.

I went llumar "limo tint" black and that blocks a lot of heat. ...

Yes, and most states do. See http://www.tintlaws.com/
By the way, even if I could get a limo black tint. I don't want to! I want to be able to see well out the back.
In fact I really only got the tinting to try and solve this problem. I'm not the type that likes tinting or thinks it looks cool, etc.
Actually I don't like it as it reduces visibility, especially at night.

 

[andrewket]

not to sensationalize it, but my concern is that someone is going to get hurt and it's going to blow up from there. it's no small matter, small children can get overwhelmed easily and end up in distress. a few minutes running into a store can go longer than expected and the hot sun, to a new owner, can be incredibly unforgiving with respect to that back area.

while they are at it, they should offer an upgrade option for those wishing to flip the rear camera to monitor their kids in the jump seats. seems like it should be pretty easy, given the wiring for the outside camera is right there.

I'd like to see Tesla develop a retrofit kit to add vents. It's the right thing to do, and will demonstrate once again that they are different from the other car manufacturers. Having said that, I agree with the above that there is a significant risk to Tesla that an incident occurs and the negative press will be extremely damaging, never mind the actual liability and damages.

 

[dsm363]

Has anyone measured the temperature back there after you follow the new settings Tesla recommends? Being uncomfortable to the point where no one wants to sit back there (which is a problem and must be addressed) is different than life threatening conditions. Isn't there glass that Tesla can install at the factory that already has the solar guard built into the glass (had this for Roadster)? That would help some but not enough it sounds like.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Our MOD:
in addition to preconditioning and adding a very heavy tint to the back (28%), we also added two battery operated fans in preparation for our 2K mile trip down to CA through the heat wave. we got these fans at Fred Meyer, they are "02 Cool" brand, we added Eneloop rechargables, which give a 10 hour burn time on full blast... very nice for long road trips. the battery compartment of the fan is doughnut shaped, with a whole in the middle, which turns out to be key for mounting. I added felt stickies to the bottom that comes in contact with the roll bar to avoid rubbing and used a handy bike tire tool to secure and adjust tension for a firm hold. they are easy to take on and off for battery charging. see pictures for how I mounted them on the roll bar by putting multiple zip ties together and lacing them over the bar. I point them toward the middle back of the car to push the hot air back out of the jump seat area to the sides. *** do not open the Pano roof with these in place *** (sorry the photos are upside down, this is my first time uploading to this site, not sure what I did wrong).

View attachment 25387

And you're not upset even in the slightest that you paid $1,500 for an upgrade that forced you to do this to your beautiful $100,000 vehicle?

 

[huntjo]

not to sensationalize it, but my concern is that someone is going to get hurt and it's going to blow up from there. it's no small matter, small children can get overwhelmed easily and end up in distress. a few minutes running into a store can go longer than expected and the hot sun, to a new owner, can be incredibly unforgiving with respect to that back area.

while they are at it, they should offer an upgrade option for those wishing to flip the rear camera to monitor their kids in the jump seats. seems like it should be pretty easy, given the wiring for the outside camera is right there.

Again- I am not a lawyer, but when you are claiming that Tesla in some way is harming people, I cannot for the life of me imagine such a lawsuit coming to fruition. Simply put: if you put your kids in the hottest part of the car, then any "injury" was your decison. I don't think it's is possible to blame the manufacturer for this in court even though you would like the seats to be cooler.

If you're leaving kids in the car unattended in summer that's a whole nother issue. If you're driving a long ways and try start to get uncomfortable, the kid will complain/whine. You shouldn't have kids under 4 back there anyhow unless I am mistaken.
CDC - Child Passenger Safety Fact Sheet - Motor Vehicle Safety - Injury Center

To clarify: my opinion is that Tesla should try to make it better, but I think there is no liability danger for them.

 

[andrewket]

Take injury to kids out of the equation. Lets talk about the fact Tesla advertised the model S as a 7 passenger vehicle, and a non zero number of people made their buying decision based on this fact. If a buyer cannot safely use the seats in the back, it's a 5 passenger car. A buyer would have the right to seek compensation for this.

 

[brianman]

So you're basically saying it's the consumer's problem and Tesla has no responsibility here whatsoever?

That's not what he said. He's giving you practical advice on how to cheaply and easily (my interpretation) implement a workaround to enable the feature until Tesla offers a viable solution (or fails to).

 

[100thMonkey]

Mounting fans on the roll bar has consistently done the trick, got us through our 2,000+ mile road trip during the heat wave. turns out putting both on one side to create a circular pattern of air movement works the best. I'll be looking for a way to improve the mounting. A velcrow strap might work for more easy removal. the zip ties however allow for adequate tension to keep them from rattling. whatever is used, it has to be snug.

 

[Alpha]

Good to know. Out of curiosity, what areas did you drive through on your road trip? Did you make it down to the southeast anywhere (GA, SC, FL, etc.) ?

 

[jeffaa]

I have 16-month twins in car seats in the second row. I have a 4-year-old who used to love to ride in the 3rd row, maybe for the first 2 weeks we had the car. But since then, whenever we use the Tesla, he asks to ride in his brothers' car seats because it is so uncomfortable in the 3rd row. This is still the case even after installing window tint. This is still the case even after having a battery powered fan back there. This is still the case even after receiving the email from Tesla about a/c settings, and setting them accordingly. I really need an official, Tesla solution.

 

[100thMonkey]

not sure how you have the fan positioned, but the key is having the fan in the conditioned area, pushing the cold air back and warm air forward... there needs to be exchange.

I have 16-month twins in car seats in the second row. I have a 4-year-old who used to love to ride in the 3rd row, maybe for the first 2 weeks we had the car. But since then, whenever we use the Tesla, he asks to ride in his brothers' car seats because it is so uncomfortable in the 3rd row. This is still the case even after installing window tint. This is still the case even after having a battery powered fan back there. This is still the case even after receiving the email from Tesla about a/c settings, and setting them accordingly. I really need an official, Tesla solution.

- - - Updated - - -

Good to know. Out of curiosity, what areas did you drive through on your road trip? Did you make it down to the southeast anywhere (GA, SC, FL, etc.) ?

No, it was a west coast trip. humidity in your area may pose a greater challenge, though the heat pump should dehumidify the air nicely. I can say I was impressed with the fact that we could have the AC cranked the entire trip with little effect on efficiency.

 

[WarpedOne]

I really need an official, Tesla solution.

Anything Tesla does officially, you can do even better.
A battery powered fan? You could ask and we would tell you it won't change a thing.

Use a car ie. 12V fan with ~2" diameter in a ~2 feet long tube (in a color similar to your interior color) mounted over back seat rest. It needs to transport cooler air from front into the back.
Basic logic :|

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Simply put: if you put your kids in the hottest part of the car, then any "injury" was your decison. I don't think it's is possible to blame the manufacturer for this in court even though you would like the seats to be cooler.

Not even remotely close to accurate. Read Tesla's marketing claim for the jumpseats: "The rear facing child seat option provides seating for seven. Optimized for safety and equipped with 5-point seatbelts, the bucket seats provide a comfortable ride for children under the age of 10." Tesla represents the seats as "optimized for safety" and that they "provide a comfortable ride". Put that in front of a judge along with photos of your heat stroked children when you followed all of Tesla's instructions and maxed out your AC and fan speed, then yes, Tesla is at fault here because they misrepresented the product you purchased.

Stop blaming the innocent customer for "putting your kids in the hottest part of the car" because Tesla is saying it is not the hottest part of the car and, in fact, this area of the car is optimized for safety. Safety doesn't just mean crash safety. You are attempting to place the blame on the consumer for buying into the representations of the company. The company is clearly responsible for that, not the consumer. I wish you would stop blaming the victim here and hold Tesla accountable for fixing the problem or giving a $1,500 credit to anyone who is experiencing the heat issue.

 

[notailpipe2112]

I have the rear facing seats and they get used with my two kids aged 8 and 6 all time in the Toronto-area. Yes, we did get some extra tint to cut the heat. So far the kids are still interested in riding in the back, and we have done quite a few trips longer than 3 hours with them in the back. I also have a plug-in fan back there for extra air movement.

Two things that play out in the back seat that have nothing to do with heat, or tint, is the fact that the two kids sometimes like a little time apart from each other so one will come to the back seat for a break. The other factor is that we do these 3 hours+ drives with the two kids and the dog (medium size Shepard) in the back with them (dog lies on the floor at their feet). They love being with the dog. So, maybe the solution here is for everyone with rear-facing seats...is to also also get a dog (sorry about the fur on your new car!).