Rear camber issue caused Pilot Sports to fail at 24k miles (M3P+)

[Alanant]

Hi everyone. I'm just looking to see if anyone has had their rear Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires to wear so badly that the cords were showing only on the inside edge/sidewall at 24k miles?

The vehicle (M3P+ with factory 20s) alerted me to a flat on one side and after reinflation I could hear air leaking from the inside sidewall of the tire. To my surprise the entire circumference had exposed cord. The Tesla tire tech came out to inspect and replace it when he noticed exactly the same wear on the other side. The tires themselves still have 6/32s of tread except for the innermost inch. The fronts have even wear.

Evidently the alignment is way out on the rears. I assume it's been like this from the factory. Would that be a fair assumption? In addition to the $410 for each of the two tires Tesla also want almost $340 for an alignment (which they can't do in any Los Angeles service center until January 24). I wonder if I have any recourse here?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Casmium]

Had the same issue after about 90,000km but with the 18", just did an alignment at a local tire shop for 99.99

 

[Alanant]

I wish I got 90 thousand ks out of mine before noticing

 

[jjrandorin]

I wonder if I have any recourse here?

Not likely. Its likely it was out of alignment from the factory, but there is no way to prove that, and wheel alignment is a consumable item. Doesnt hurt to ask, but if they do, it would definitely be "good will" because there is no other leg to stand on, as it were.

 

[Alanant]

Thanks @jjrandorin. It's impossible to prove as you pointed out however with it being equally worn and therefore equally out of alignment on both sides I'm going to try my luck. I'd be happy at this point if they just comp'ed the alignment. I'm thankful that when the tire finally went is was in a parking lot and not 30 minutes earlier on the freeway with my 3 year old in the back.

 

[GHammer]

FYI, probably not a camber issue, too much toe out more likely. I dont believe any Tesla has stock camber adjustability.

 

[Krobbler]

Toe is a tire killer. That sure looks like a toe out issue.

 

[Alanant]

Good to know, thanks @GHammer

 

[dfwatt]

Hi everyone. I'm just looking to see if anyone has had their rear Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires to wear so badly that the cords were showing only on the inside edge/sidewall at 24k miles?

The vehicle (M3P+ with factory 20s) alerted me to a flat on one side and after reinflation I could hear air leaking from the inside sidewall of the tire. To my surprise the entire circumference had exposed cord. The Tesla tire tech came out to inspect and replace it when he noticed exactly the same wear on the other side. The tires themselves still have 6/32s of tread except for the innermost inch. The fronts have even wear.

Evidently the alignment is way out on the rears. I assume it's been like this from the factory. Would that be a fair assumption? In addition to the $410 for each of the two tires Tesla also want almost $340 for an alignment (which they can't do in any Los Angeles service center until January 24). I wonder if I have any recourse here?

Thanks in advance. View attachment 747709

Most of the time this is caused by wildly out of spec toe. Slight negative camber at rear (nominal and in spec) causes the wildly out of line toe to chew up the inner edge. If you have 4-5 degrees negative camber that could also explain (in which case you would have to appeal to Tesla if it came that way but this is very unlikely for a lot of reasons), but if camber looks pretty symmetrical left to right, then it's the toe. Stock suspension can't adjust camber F or R, just toe.

 

[Casmium]

I wish I got 90 thousand ks out of mine before noticing

The majority was on the winter tires, problem seemed to Develop sometime in the summer as the winters were even

 

[MasterC17]

This is a toe issue, not a camber issue.

Have you ever had it aligned since new? Literally hitting a single pothole could cause your toe to change. Have you ever rotated your tires?

I do alignment's every 6k miles, which is probably overkill, but if you're not doing them every 12k don't expect your tires to last long. Tire maintenance is on you.

 

[Jeremy3292]

I just got my M3 LR aligned at Tesla for around $125 with only 7,500 miles on it. The camber and caster on all tires was perfectly fine, but the toes were wildly out on every single tire. In a perfect world you would get your car aligned every time you rotate the tires, but that is cost prohibitive. In my experience all cars get out of alignment regularly and quickly from just general driving.

 

[earthwormjim]

This is a toe issue, not a camber issue.

Have you ever had it aligned since new? Literally hitting a single pothole could cause your toe to change. Have you ever rotated your tires?

I do alignment's every 6k miles, which is probably overkill, but if you're not doing them every 12k don't expect your tires to last long. Tire maintenance is on you.

Do your alignment specs actually change that much to warrant such frequent alignments? What's the before/after like at 6k miles? There's not even that many adjustment points on these cars without aftermarket parts.

I know some shops offer lifetime alignments for a pretty low price, but I can't imagine spending that much time at a service shop. That would be an alignment every 2-3 months for me, at 6k miles.

 

[Jeremy3292]

Do your alignment specs actually change that much to warrant such frequent alignments? What's the before/after like at 6k miles? There's not even that many adjustment points on these cars without aftermarket parts.

I know some shops offer lifetime alignments for a pretty low price, but I can't imagine spending that much time at a service shop. That would be an alignment every 2-3 months for me, at 6k miles.

Yes, that is correct. All of the toes on my M3 were wildly out after just 2-3 months and 7,500 miles. Unless you drive smooth roads all the time, the car will most certainly be out of alignment after 5k miles. I have the before/after printout from Tesla also.

This has also been my experience with all other cars I have owned, new and old.

 

[EmOne]

Yes, that is correct. All of the toes on my M3 were wildly out after just 2-3 months and 7,500 miles. Unless you drive smooth roads all the time, the car will most certainly be out of alignment after 5k miles. I have the before/after printout from Tesla also.

This has also been my experience with all other cars I have owned, new and old.

Well, my experience over 50 years of driving, mostly in pot-hole ridden Chicago, is wildly different. Most of my cars maintained near perfectly stable alignment. The Tesla has been the ONLY one that was badly out of alignment when delivered (or within first 6000 miles of pot-hole free driving) as determined by independent (they only wanted $100 to check, Tesla $275!) When I presented to Tesla with the uneven wear due to the bad toe, they offered the same option--alignment for $275. Took my business elsewhere, including MPP to get parts that allow for complete alignment. Just had rechecked after 10,000 miles, hasn't budged despite a few good pot-holes (no monsters), tho somewhat improved tolerance for such by going to 18" rims for both summer and winter.

 

[Alanant]

I just picked up the car from the Tesla Service Center (4 week wait for an appointment). My service advisor was not in so they wouldn't work with me on the cost of the allignment. I asked to speak with the tire tech to see if he could explain why it was out so much. They sent out another guy who couldn't explain it but kept saying that when he worked at Bridgestone they recommended allignment every 5-6k. See the attached before and after report, which I don't think they meant to leave in the car.

 

[Jeremy3292]

See the attached before and after report, which I don't think they meant to leave in the car.

That is normal. I got the same from Tesla when I got an alignment last month also.

 

[MasterC17]

I just picked up the car from the Tesla Service Center (4 week wait for an appointment). My service advisor was not in so they wouldn't work with me on the cost of the allignment. I asked to speak with the tire tech to see if he could explain why it was out so much. They sent out another guy who couldn't explain it but kept saying that when he worked at Bridgestone they recommended allignment every 5-6k. See the attached before and after report, which I don't think they meant to leave in the car.

There's nothing suspicious here, which is what you seem to be implying.

It is completely normal, on every single car ever, that your alignment will change over time due to hitting potholes, road imperfections, etc. The reason there is adjustment in the suspension is precisely because of this. Bushings wear, springs compress, etc over time which will cause toe variations. You cannot see such minor changes in the toe with your eyes, which is why you need a machine or strings to calculate the measurements.

 

[dfwatt]

I just picked up the car from the Tesla Service Center (4 week wait for an appointment). My service advisor was not in so they wouldn't work with me on the cost of the allignment. I asked to speak with the tire tech to see if he could explain why it was out so much. They sent out another guy who couldn't explain it but kept saying that when he worked at Bridgestone they recommended allignment every 5-6k. See the attached before and after report, which I don't think they meant to leave in the car.

Getting your car aligned every five to six thousand miles is obsessive. On the other hand getting your car aligned immediately when it's delivered from Tesla is a very good idea. You can't count on oems to deliver aligned vehicles. That's been my experience anyway and that includes cars from Toyota and Honda with better quality control at least ostensibly.

 

[Sam1]

They sent out another guy who couldn't explain it but kept saying that when he worked at Bridgestone they recommended allignment every 5-6k.

Of course someone who works at a tire and alignment shop wants you to come back every 5000 miles for an alignment. How else are they going to be able to buy themselves a Tesla?