"Refreshed" Model S model VIBRATION tracking and information thread!!!

[jebinc]

No need to measure, this is what CV joints operate at. I am not sure why, but the axels on the cars are asymmetrical in length (a guess I would say its how the motor is positioned and the differential it uses being on the left side) also, there is some type of bracket on the right side of the axel (to me its an actual clevis mount) but not what Tesla refers to as a clevis mount, I can see how this could be a problem. My 2 cents but until this whole setup is re-engineered it will be a problem. I vote for symmetry of axels and freedom to move in and out and I see great results coming from that, if I had to place my bet, I would say the right side is always the problem, its just a poor design from what I see.

And if true, not something Tesla would likely fix until the next model. These are low production models, so they care little to invest a ton of money into interim fixes that “are not safety concerns,” and that “do not affect the operation of the vehicle”.

 

[Donsla MS]

And if true, not something Tesla would likely fix until the next model. These are low production models, so they care little to invest a ton of money into interim fixes that “are not safety concerns,” and that “do not affect the operation of the vehicle”.

“are not safety concerns,” and that “do not affect the operation of the vehicle”.
No but they VIBRATE THE HELL OUT OF EVERYTHING ELSE NOT DESIGNED FOR THAT AMOUNT OF VIBRATION!!
What problems will come up later because Tesla just let it go??

 

[Donsla MS]

No need to measure, this is what CV joints operate at. I am not sure why, but the axels on the cars are asymmetrical in length (a guess I would say its how the motor is positioned and the differential it uses being on the left side) also, there is some type of bracket on the right side of the axel (to me its an actual clevis mount) but not what Tesla refers to as a clevis mount, I can see how this could be a problem. My 2 cents but until this whole setup is re-engineered it will be a problem. I vote for symmetry of axels and freedom to move in and out and I see great results coming from that, if I had to place my bet, I would say the right side is always the problem, its just a poor design from what I see.

So the short shaft is the problem, (As is for some men)... I finally found Tesla's parts listing and saw that the right side used a jackshaft as an extender because centerline of the differential is biased to the left, making the left side shorter. Suspension rise angles the left side CV joint more than the right...

 

[Vettepartz]

I have a simple question. Since the posters here have narrowed it down to a mechanical problem, why doesn't EVERY ONE of the newer refreshed models have this problem? If they are all built the same, and the problem indeed is mechanical, shouldn't every one of these models have the problem? Look at the poll at the beginning of this thread, and there are a lot of Teslas that DON'T have the vibration. Please don't say that eventually all the cars will develop the problem, Because I have not ever heard of anyone who could accurately predict the future. Just some food for thought........

 

[CLPMiami]

This thread aims to capture sub model (dual and trim motor) vibration occurrences for "refreshed" Model S cars. Please comment with as much information you can, should your car have this affliction (including VIN range).

Issue Description:

Vibration felt in accelerator pedal and sometime in yoke; passengers may also feel it on the floor and through
the console.

- Occurs: between 38 - 50 mph

- Conditions: Constant speed (e.g., holding 43 mph +/-), or under very slight acceleration in this range, especially after transition from regen
to slight acceleration (bit of gray bar)

- Frequency: Occurs more than 50% of the time


Related Threads:

POLL: vibration felt when slightly accelerating refresh Mode S Plaid or LR

Poll: 3x - 4x mph Refreshed Model S (LR and Plaid) Vibration issue build / VIN ranges

Plaid Vibration around 38-42MPH....

2021+ Model S and Model S Plaid Refresh Issues Thread

Hi all, I have a 2021 Plaid with 1600 miles. I've had it for about 5 months. Just brought it to Tesla in Miami this week for this exact issue (although I think mine is 100% of the time). They said Tesla is aware of the issue and is working on a fix, and said very casually to just check back with them later when I bring my car in for service in the future. Was really disappointed with their handling of what to me seems like a major drive train issue for a very expensive vehicle. They were really down playing this issue, and gave no sense of urgency. Joined TMC to learn about and keep up to date on this design flaw. Hoping for a fix soon. Contact me with questions if I can provide more info that might be helpful

 

[lbowroom]

I have a simple question. Since the posters here have narrowed it down to a mechanical problem, why doesn't EVERY ONE of the newer refreshed models have this problem? If they are all built the same, and the problem indeed is mechanical, shouldn't every one of these models have the problem? Look at the poll at the beginning of this thread, and there are a lot of Teslas that DON'T have the vibration. Please don't say that eventually all the cars will develop the problem, Because I have not ever heard of anyone who could accurately predict the future. Just some food for thought........

Furthermore, Kyle is presenting that these are known, basic facts about driveline design. This would mean that Tesla has been ignorant of basic design principles and keeps designing poor drive trains. Wouldn’t it also follow that if it’s merely the angle of the CV joint operation that the faster you go m, the worse the vibration would be? That’s not what we see though. What we have is vibration in a certain speed range.

Donsla, it’s not vibrating the hell out of everything. It’s a vibration so slight that people assume my car has it but I’m just too insensitive to notice.

 

[jebinc]

If your refreshed MS/Plaid has this vibration issue (at speed or under “slight acceleration”), DriveTesla would like to hear from you on [email protected]

They are collecting data to see how much concern in the community exists, re this matter. If extensive, I suspect we will see more articles and others picking up the story. Time to be heard if you have a vibrating Plaid or refreshed MS!

 

[MP3Mike]

Furthermore, Kyle is presenting that these are known, basic facts about driveline design. This would mean that Tesla has been ignorant of basic design principles and keeps designing poor drive trains.

But I haven't seen anyone say that they have measured the angles and that they violate the principals.

 

[Donsla MS]

Furthermore, Kyle is presenting that these are known, basic facts about driveline design. This would mean that Tesla has been ignorant of basic design principles and keeps designing poor drive trains. Wouldn’t it also follow that if it’s merely the angle of the CV joint operation that the faster you go m, the worse the vibration would be? That’s not what we see though. What we have is vibration in a certain speed range.

Donsla, it’s not vibrating the hell out of everything. It’s a vibration so slight that people assume my car has it but I’m just too insensitive to notice.

Maybe it's a yet to be turned on feature... Massaging Seats!

 

[Donsla MS]

But I haven't seen anyone say that they have measured the angles and that they violate the principals.

I did read that the inner CV joint does allow movement in and out to compensate for suspension travel..
I wonder if Tesla is sending all replaced shafts back to Factory. I would like to tear the rubber boot off and check it out.

 

[jebinc]

I did read that the inner CV joint does allow movement in and out to compensate for suspension travel..
I wonder if Tesla is sending all replaced shafts back to Factory. I would like to tear the rubber boot off and check it out.

Go for it! Be sure to share the photo evidence!

 

[Donsla MS]

Go for it! Be sure to share the photo evidence!

Made a few calls to Tesla service Lancaster, PA. No response from the parts dept. I could do a parts dumpster dive for an axle, then be arrested..

 

[Kyle [CK]]

So the short shaft is the problem, (As is for some men)... I finally found Tesla's parts listing and saw that the right side used a jackshaft as an extender because centerline of the differential is biased to the left, making the left side shorter. Suspension rise angles the left side CV joint more than the right...

You are spot on, length is an issue, asymmetry is not helping. As for measuring (someone else's comment), I am not sure how you would prove that the geometry is chosen wrong unless you had access to the software used to test the car, I mean design software that is used for design testing, not how it runs, and you could simulate the suspension movements and see what is going wrong. We don't have failures on the rear and the reason for that is there is a level of suspension jacking that is happening on these cars in the front due to the power/torque, causing the front to jack so high that you are exceeding the limits of travel for the CV joint -- that in combination with the asymmetry of the axels, you have a problem.

 

[jebinc]

You are spot on, length is an issue, asymmetry is not helping. As for measuring (someone else's comment), I am not sure how you would prove that the geometry is chosen wrong unless you had access to the software used to test the car, I mean design software that is used for design testing, not how it runs, and you could simulate the suspension movements and see what is going wrong. We don't have failures on the rear and the reason for that is there is a level of suspension jacking that is happening on these cars in the front due to the power/torque, causing the front to jack so high that you are exceeding the limits of travel for the CV joint -- that in combination with the asymmetry of the axels, you have a problem.

Given this, if the root cause, a fix will not occur any time soon. Has anyone with the vibration tried lowering links to see what effect that may have?

 

[lbowroom]

You are spot on, length is an issue, asymmetry is not helping. As for measuring (someone else's comment), I am not sure how you would prove that the geometry is chosen wrong unless you had access to the software used to test the car, I mean design software that is used for design testing, not how it runs, and you could simulate the suspension movements and see what is going wrong. We don't have failures on the rear and the reason for that is there is a level of suspension jacking that is happening on these cars in the front due to the power/torque, causing the front to jack so high that you are exceeding the limits of travel for the CV joint -- that in combination with the asymmetry of the axels, you have a problem.

But the vibration isn’t happening when the car is under load or jacked. It’s happening at virtually no throttle at all. It also assumes that Tesla ran no analysis or simulations on their suspension geometry which is not at all likely. Sounds like unsupported speculation

 

[n2mb_racing]

This is a 100% suspension geometry issue, and until that changes it will continue to be a problem. The angle of the axels is asymmetrical at all drive heights and has a maximum operating angle that never exceeds 54 degrees on outboard joints, usually 47 to 54 is what is put in most cars on the outboard joints and 22-31 degrees on inboard joints. The higher the degree range of operating angle the more cyclic vibration. This is why in low suspension setting the vibration can be eliminated. I am going to assume the problem is entirely the inboard joints that are being pushed beyond 31 degrees of movement and are prematurely failing. The fix to replace a clevis mount that allows sideways movement isn't the right answer, the axel has to be able to extend and compress or it will wear out even faster. If I was to bet what is causing the problem, it is the motor itself moving and putting stress on the right inner joint, until you solve for that, I don't see a resolution.

Although, going into low doesn't eliminate the vibration. It is the same in all suspension settings.

 

[n2mb_racing]

I have a simple question. Since the posters here have narrowed it down to a mechanical problem, why doesn't EVERY ONE of the newer refreshed models have this problem? If they are all built the same, and the problem indeed is mechanical, shouldn't every one of these models have the problem? Look at the poll at the beginning of this thread, and there are a lot of Teslas that DON'T have the vibration. Please don't say that eventually all the cars will develop the problem, Because I have not ever heard of anyone who could accurately predict the future. Just some food for thought........

I think they all vibrate, and some people don't notice it.

 

[MP3Mike]

It would be interesting to have someone install some isolation dampers, rubber washers?, on the mounts for the steering rack to see if the vibration is reduced or eliminated...

 

[jebinc]

I think they all vibrate, and some people don't notice it.

I do as well. And the vibration intensity varies from vehicle to vehicle and with time and mileage. I predict a year from now, we will see at lot more on this.

 

[lbowroom]

I do as well. And the vibration intensity varies from vehicle to vehicle and with time and mileage. I predict a year from now, we will see at lot more on this.

I think you’re both wrong.