Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

[Resolved w/12V Battery] Model 3 Hypermiled 606 Miles Down To 0% - Now Will Not Take A Charge

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
It is amazing to see the rapid expansion of SuperChargers - Tesla knows that the SuperCharger infrastructure is the glue that solidifies Tesla as the world leader in EV's for the foreseeable future...

The Supercharger network is what I consider to be Tesla's one true killer feature, even when the legacy car companies start putting out 300+ mile range cars as well.

It will really be interesting to see if some other "universal" charging network appears as competition. I mean, it's theoretically possible, but even with the billions VW was forced to pledge, I just don't see the car companies all agreeing on some universal standard and making a network as robust as the SC network. Car companies just don't play well together. Ford and GM shared resources on a 9 speed auto and they still mucked things up enough that they might as well have just gone it alone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dhrivnak
@Sean Mitchell - Did you try to jump or otherwise support the 12V battery while trying to get it to charge? Also, wasn't it obvious that it wasn't Supercharging when you connected it? Personally, I'm not at all surprised that the 12V battery got low after the car stopped moving. The car must open the contactors on the traction battery pack in order to protect it. After that, the 12V is on its own and all Tesla cars have significant 12V drain unless they're sleeping.
 
It's a 10 speed automatic trans. Listen to it shift. Shifts quicker than a Porsche PDK:

But all auto companies share suppliers. Yes that means Tesla too.

No, I meant the 9 speed. They actually did decently sharing the 10 speed. There's no reason the 9 shouldn't have been the same and been widely adopted. Not what ended up happening.

There's a big difference between sharing suppliers and sharing development. It can go ok, but that tends to be on more niche vehicles like sports cars. On mass market stuff where the competitors are fighting tooth and nail for market share, not so much.

Toyota/BMW/Subaru on a low volume sports car? Great!

Ford/GM on much more volume? You get this: Ford Refuses To Use GM's 9-Speed Automatic Transmission
 
  • Informative
Reactions: McRat
Wow. Just wow.

I visit this site to learn facts about Tesla and its cars, not to see people to spin every story and excuse every shortcoming in order to give Tesla "protection". (Tesla's reputation deserves every bit of protection that they earn. No more. They're a big boy company now.)

I can't believe anyone would seriously suggest anything different.
Agree. I do not want this site turning into one dominated by an echo chamber of fanboys.

There are some here. Some of those "protection" folks should honestly evaluate themselves against The psychology of fanboys, explained by a professional | GamesRadar+.
 
No, I meant the 9 speed. They actually did decently sharing the 10 speed. There's no reason the 9 shouldn't have been the same and been widely adopted. Not what ended up happening.

There's a big difference between sharing suppliers and sharing development. It can go ok, but that tends to be on more niche vehicles like sports cars. On mass market stuff where the competitors are fighting tooth and nail for market share, not so much.

Toyota/BMW/Subaru on a low volume sports car? Great!

Ford/GM on much more volume? You get this: Ford Refuses To Use GM's 9-Speed Automatic Transmission

I was not aware of the 9 speed saga, thanks. I seldom wander into the FWD transmission area. Seems to working fine in the performance version of the Malibu. It's not a common transmission. Note that the Ford Mustang, Cobra, Chevrolet Corvette, Camaro, Pontiac Firebird, T/A, GTO, Cadillac CTS-V, the Dodge Viper and some others all used the same transmission adapted to their specific needs, the legendary T-56. Love that gal. Wide ratio for the Z06, close ratio for the F-bodies, smooth as silk.

But all was not well with Ford in "mass market" 10 Speed Land. While GM has tore up tracks with the 10R90, Ford recalled 350,000 of their variant of the 10 speed last month. GM also has had the best heavy duty transmission in a light truck for the last 18 years with the Allison. Virtually indestructible. Often goes over 250,000 miles behind high torque diesels in heavy vehicles.
 
If I was reporting on the drive I would de-emphasize the 600 miles too since it took a hypermiling stunt to achieve.
Operational word: stunt.

I totally get people wanting to figure out how to squeeze out every bit of juice they can. However, driving with interior temps as high as 107F, at an average speed of 22mph or whatever it was... that's a stunt.

Drive a mix of city/highway, keep at or slightly below posted speed limits. Use chill mode, highest regen (or lowest, or do multiple tests with different settings), always accelerate slowly. Keep A/C or Windows cracked open to a minimum, but keep the temperatures in usable range.

But don't do a stunt and act like the car can go 600 miles. It can't. In any appreciable real world scenario, it won't come even close.
 
Ar
Operational word: stunt.

I totally get people wanting to figure out how to squeeze out every bit of juice they can. However, driving with interior temps as high as 107F, at an average speed of 22mph or whatever it was... that's a stunt.

Drive a mix of city/highway, keep at or slightly below posted speed limits. Use chill mode, highest regen (or lowest, or do multiple tests with different settings), always accelerate slowly. Keep A/C or Windows cracked open to a minimum, but keep the temperatures in usable range.

But don't do a stunt and act like the car can go 600 miles. It can't. In any appreciable real world scenario, it won't come even close.

Sure, but aren't all of these super hypermiling attempts stunts. Of course nobody would ever drive that way. I sure hope there aren't people out there that think it's a 600 mile car. That being said it's still interesting to know what different cars can do under similar "ideal" test conditions.
 
Exactly. I fully charged my S90D last weekend and drove about 250 miles before charging again. My car reported I'd used 61 kWh and had about 45 miles range remaining (~11 kWh). 61 kWh +11 kWh is only 72 kWh and I know my battery is larger than that. The other energy was used for A/C, battery cooling, headlights, TACC, AP, etc.

You cant extrapolate to full charge based on a partial discharge and using the remaining range. This is because many vehicles actually push 2-4 kWh below 0.

However, in this test, the authors drove right up until the bricking buffer kicked in. The energy reported on the dash should be fairly accurate in this case, assuming the vehicle was driven a short while after it reached 100%.
 
Ar


Sure, but aren't all of these super hypermiling attempts stunts. Of course nobody would ever drive that way. I sure hope there aren't people out there that think it's a 600 mile car. That being said it's still interesting to know what different cars can do under similar "ideal" test conditions.
Yes, they all are stunts if they don't even attempt to get a real-world scenario. Hypermiling by itself (let the interior get a little uncomfortable, always go at or below speed limit [but reasonably so], slow to accelerate, etc...) is valid, especially if a car is low on charge and the next charging stop is right on the edge of available range. Or for people who like to drive the most efficiently they can. But as Sean said above, people were amazed the car could go 600 miles. I really hope that had the caveat attached to it of "Tesla's range estimate is 310 miles, and we think you might be able to squeeze out 350 or 400 (or whatever) under super ideal driving conditions, but this 600 mile range is in no way practical and is only because we like to do stunts." It needs to be firmly implanted in their head. Because anyone who's not already an EV enthusiast who knows what these stunts are might think "well, surely I can get 500 miles then if I just drive reasonable".
 
  • Like
Reactions: McRat
Yes, they all are stunts if they don't even attempt to get a real-world scenario. Hypermiling by itself (let the interior get a little uncomfortable, always go at or below speed limit [but reasonably so], slow to accelerate, etc...) is valid, especially if a car is low on charge and the next charging stop is right on the edge of available range. Or for people who like to drive the most efficiently they can. But as Sean said above, people were amazed the car could go 600 miles. I really hope that had the caveat attached to it of "Tesla's range estimate is 310 miles, and we think you might be able to squeeze out 350 or 400 (or whatever) under super ideal driving conditions, but this 600 mile range is in no way practical and is only because we like to do stunts." It needs to be firmly implanted in their head. Because anyone who's not already an EV enthusiast who knows what these stunts are might think "well, surely I can get 500 miles then if I just drive reasonable".

For EV enthusiasts, we know about how variables affect range, and competing in range contests can be fun. To those who are buying their first EV ever, and have not driven one extensively, they don't what to expect. Look at the number of threads on all EV boards about "Why isn't my car getting the range that it should? It is 3 miles off!!!".

It's good these hypermiling threads can generate national attention to get the EV out there as something that goes more than 80 miles. But I'm not sure about have corporate comments concerning these kinds of numbers. It could even have bizarre effects. Politicians and bureaucrats aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer. If they use these kinds of numbers for planning (history is full of bad planning from junk data), it could actually harm EV adoption at a national level.

I can make an EV do a loop on the freeway without impeding traffic, and hit 50% over EPA rated highway numbers. I don't put that in my sig but I will discuss the conditions and methods I used to get there. ACC/cruise off, look far ahead, warm weather and tires, keep following distance at 2 seconds or better, stay in the right side lanes, cabin on FAN ONLY, no unnecessary weight, gentle regen and accel, avoid brakes, avoid full stops. Look for smooth areas of the lanes and following an 18 wheeler at a safe distance doesn't hurt.

These methods can be used by any EV to improve range considerably, even by new drivers who want to experiment with hypermiling or need to stretch their range. HOWEVER, one of the major advantages of EVs is their ability to have instant acceleration, so hypermiling negates one of the prime features of an EV. Even when you are hypermiling, never be afraid to use the pedal 100% if it makes for a safer drive.
 
Perhaps in your car Tesla can hide the Wh/mile and SoC meters.


I'm not OCD, I understand that driving conditions affect range just as they do in an ICE. I use the NAV to estimate my route with a little cushion and it's been near exact every time and more often than not slightly conservative. Don't care if my battery is 72kwh or 80kwh and they called it a 75. I pay near zero attention to Wh/mile other than it's high going uphill and low going down since I live in the mountains.
 
But I'm not sure about have corporate comments concerning these kinds of numbers. It could even have bizarre effects. Politicians and bureaucrats aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer. If they use these kinds of numbers for planning (history is full of bad planning from junk data), it could actually harm EV adoption at a national level.
Yes, I didn't mean for my part to be saying that Tesla should respond. I just think that whoever is doing the hypermiling stunts should have a very clear, oft repeated, disclaimer that says "[manufacturer] claims a range of XXX miles, and we think that under super ideal conditions, you might be able to go YYY, but our ZZZ miles is in no way achievable in any normal road conditions." And you're right - because people who make policy hear about the Tesla that got 600 miles and thinks that EVs should all be able to drive more than a regular car with a tank of gas, and we get shitty policies. And because people new to EVs will wonder why they didn't get exactly the range they were told (or thought they could get if they just went "easy" on the accelerator).
 
Yup, unless the fuel level is higher than the injection pump, or you have secondary 'lift' pump, a diesel cannot prime itself if you get air in the lines. This isn't going to change in the foreseeable future. Sometimes you will get lucky and crank it until it starts without killing battery or damaging the injectors or pump by running them while dry, but most the time you need to bleed the air out of the system or force feed the injection pump (Duramax style) or do something risky which is to light it with ether.

It's the nature of the beast. Gasoline injection systems are loose tolerance, cheap, and low pressure. Diesels are high pressure, past 30,000 psi sometimes.

I put a pair of Kennedy's electric fuel pumps in my truck to help cure this issue. :)
 
The hypermiling is all well and good, but I’m more concerned as to why only 66 kWh was usable. That’s a considerable difference from the rated 75 and assumed 80 kWh.

I wonder if there was a bad 12V battery or a 12V short somewhere that was putting a constant drain on the traction battery. Once the TB shut down to save itself the 12V battery would continue to drain itself into oblivion.
 
I wonder if there was a bad 12V battery or a 12V short somewhere that was putting a constant drain on the traction battery. Once the TB shut down to save itself the 12V battery would continue to drain itself into oblivion.
The 12V was still working at the end. The screen was on, the lights and hazard lights still worked, etc., so the 12V wasn't totally dead. It was unfortunate that the Supercharger wasn't able to charge it back up.
 
The 12V was still working at the end. The screen was on, the lights and hazard lights still worked, etc., so the 12V wasn't totally dead. It was unfortunate that the Supercharger wasn't able to charge it back up.
That is interesting. I think I read that they also tried to jump the 12v to get supercharging working without success.

This all sounds like another software errata that will be quickly solved now that it is known.