Rivian Automotive

[CarlK]

It is not the "way I think" but the reality in which legacy OEMs find themselves.

It is called the innovator's dilemma.

They can't make money at low scale. The CEO that heavily invest in electrification will bear the burden of the cost but unlikely the fruits of success. That will be one to three CEOs later. The CEO that invest heavily will not have immediate profits therefore the financial ratios performance will look bad. Likely these CEOs will get fired before significant profit roles in.

The CEOs of all the major legacy OEMs have not refused to invest in the obvious future because they collectively have an average IQ below 100. They are incentivized to think short term. Even the Germans and Japanese, despite what we hear to the contrary.

It not necessarily their intelligence per si but the culture they are used to. Those who could beat thousands of competitors to rise to the top position need to have one prominent quality. That is they know to avoid making any mistakes. Taking risks is just not in their blood. That's why pretty much ALL disruptive new technology came from new comers.

 

[RobStark]

It not necessarily their intelligence per si but the culture they are used to. Those who could beat thousands of competitors to rise to the top position need to have one prominent quality. That is they know to avoid making any mistakes. Taking risks is just not in their blood. That's why pretty much ALL disruptive new technology came from new comers.

I don't think that is necessarily true but it is another argument in favor of compliance numbers of trucks not a bold mass marketing of trucks and conversion from ICE pickup fleet to BEV pickup fleet.

 

[mikevbf]

Not good news for Riven if turns out to be true. GM could make conventional electric pickups and Tesla the radical blade runner one Elon wanted to make.

Scoop: GM Reportedly Working On Electric Pickup Truck With Tesla Powertrain | CleanTechnica

update: Tesla denies partnership:
GM Reportedly Working On Electric Pickup Truck With Tesla Powertrain — Updated: Tesla Denies Partnership | CleanTechnica

 

[JayP90X]

Rivian's Rally style model spotted -
Possible First Peek at Rivian's Future Rally Model

 

[mspohr]

update: Tesla denies partnership:
GM Reportedly Working On Electric Pickup Truck With Tesla Powertrain — Updated: Tesla Denies Partnership | CleanTechnica

Looks like the end of GM wishful thinking. Why would Tesla sell a pickup truck sled to GM to compete with their own?

 

[Cosmacelf]

Looks like the end of GM wishful thinking. Why would Tesla sell a pickup truck sled to GM to compete with their own?

If anyone would sell GM a power train you’d think it would be Rivian since they’ve actually said they would be selling power trains.

 

[Cosmacelf]

If anyone would sell GM a power train you’d think it would be Rivian since they’ve actually said they would be selling power trains.

Sure enough...

Street rumor that Amazon, GM to invest in Rivian

 

[CarlK]

update: Tesla denies partnership:
GM Reportedly Working On Electric Pickup Truck With Tesla Powertrain — Updated: Tesla Denies Partnership | CleanTechnica

Tesla denies partnership. GM declines to comment. Sounds like GM is doing it without Tesla's knowledge.

 

[mikevbf]

A cool render of Rivian's potential modular design from a Rivian forum:
Rivian May Introduce Swappable Module System (Check Our Previews Inside)

 

[mikevbf]

I got a nice letter which included drawings of the Rivian SUV and Truck:

 

[Lhshockey24]

I got a nice letter which included drawings of the Rivian SUV and Truck:



View attachment 390867
View attachment 390870

View attachment 390871

Very cool! I got just the SUV pic and letter but it makes me think of what things must’ve been like in the early Tesla days. Hopefully Rivian reservation holders aren’t waiting a few extra years for our cars though!

 

[walla2]

Very cool! I got just the SUV pic and letter but it makes me think of what things must’ve been like in the early Tesla days. Hopefully Rivian reservation holders aren’t waiting a few extra years for our cars though!

Tesla sent me an RC Roadster in 2010 when I reserved a Tesla Model S. They also used to do the artwork / drawings.

At the service center, they used to vacuum at Tesla T into the carpet in the trunk area of the S. Literally a perfect tesla T by vacuuming with and against the grain of the carpet likely using some kind of stencil.

Silliness for sure but certainly a nice touch back in the day.

 

[CarlK]

I got a nice letter which included drawings of the Rivian SUV and Truck:



View attachment 390867
View attachment 390870

View attachment 390871

How could he say he started 9 years ago with no technology? He started the company to make ICE vehicles with technology that has been around for more than a century. It switched to electric vehicle when Tesla cars have been on the market for years already. He's trying to sound like another Elon which he is not. Him and those Chinese guys who mostly are following Tesla's model but they all want to give credit to themselves only.

 

[RobStark]

How could he say he started 9 years ago with no technology? He started the company to make ICE vehicles with technology that has been around for more than a century. It switched to electric vehicle when Tesla cars have been on the market for years already. He's trying to sound like another Elon which he is not. Him and those Chinese guys who mostly are following Tesla's model but they all want to give credit to themselves only.

He wanted to make a 2+2 sports car with cutting edge light weight materials that gave you 0-60 under 3 seconds but got more than 100 MPG using something like a 1.0 litre turbocharged/supercharged ICE.

Quicker than a 911 Turbo much more efficient than a Prius.

That would be/would have been revolutionary.

But he smartly pivoted. BEV Pickups and proper SUVs are a much bigger market.

Tesla originally wanted to be a design and marketing firm. Contracting out all manufacturing. Now, manufacturing is increasingly becoming Tesla's strength.

 

[CarlK]

He wanted to make a 2+2 sports car with cutting edge light weight materials that gave you 0-60 under 3 seconds but got more than 100 MPG using something like a 1.0 litre turbocharged/supercharged ICE.

Quicker than a 911 Turbo much more efficient than a Prius.

That would be/would have been revolutionary.

But he smartly pivoted. BEV Pickups and proper SUVs are a much bigger market.

Tesla originally wanted to be a design and marketing firm. Contracting out all manufacturing. Now, manufacturing is increasingly becoming Tesla's strength.

Good to know that. Although Lotus had been making super light weight and fast sports cars for decades. Many of them powered by small supercharged engine too. There is nothing revolution about that. The only thing is these Lotus cars get 20 or so mpg instead of 100 mpg, which of course is an impossible pie in the sky.

I don't think he'd ever say that if he's a physicist instead of mechanical engineer. That idea although not perpetual motion machine it is pretty close to that. You can put every engineering trick you can think of on paper but if it's against physics it's still against physics. ICE is a heat engine. Efficiency of heat engine is limited by law of thermodynamics. At those operating temperatures ICE of today is pretty close to having ideal efficiency already. Every mpg means millions if not billions of dollars to those auto companies. You don't think they would have tried those simple things long ago if they could increase efficiency by that much or even just a fraction of that? I pretty much have removed my remaining doubts of this guy after hearing this.

 

[RobStark]

Good to know that. Although Lotus had been making super light weight and fast sports cars for decades. Many of them powered by small supercharged engine too. There is nothing revolution about that. The only thing is these Lotus cars get 20 or so mpg instead of 100 mpg, which of course is an impossible pie in the sky.

I don't think he'd ever say that if he's a physicist instead of mechanical engineer. That idea although not perpetual motion machine it is pretty close to that. You can put every engineering trick you can think of on paper but if it's against physics it's still against physics. ICE is a heat engine. Efficiency of heat engine is limited by law of thermodynamics. At those operating temperatures ICE of today is pretty close to having ideal efficiency already. Every mpg means millions if not billions of dollars to those auto companies. You don't think anyone would have tried those simple things if they could increase efficiency by that much? I pretty much removed my remaining doubts of this guy after hearing this.

That is like saying there is nothing revolutionary about Tesla since GM made the EV1 and Detroit Electric made EVs over a hundred years ago.

RJ wasn't aiming at Camry. He was making a high end sports car. $150k plus. Instead of investing in more HP he would invest in advanced materials and to a lesser degree in aerodynamics. Traditional sports car makers care far more about looks.

Advanced lightweight materials, very good aerodynamics, plus a small highly efficient yet powerful engine was the goal.

Daimler has also said Tesla is breaking the laws of physics.

And naysayers also claim than although Elon has a dual major B.S. degree in economics and physics but he is neither a physicist nor an engineer.

There are at least 10k Americans over the age of 30 that dreamed of starting their own car companies when they were 13.

RJ is #2 in that race.

I am not a fan of slinging at the doers.

 

[Lhshockey24]

RobStark = RJ Scoringe ???

 

[CarlK]

That is like saying there is nothing revolutionary about Tesla since GM made the EV1 and Detroit Electric made EVs over a hundred years ago.

RJ wasn't aiming at Camry. He was making a high end sports car. $150k plus. Instead of investing in more HP he would invest in advanced materials and to a lesser degree in aerodynamics. Traditional sports car makers care far more about looks.

Advanced lightweight materials, very good aerodynamics, plus a small highly efficient yet powerful engine was the goal.

Daimler has also said Tesla is breaking the laws of physics.

And naysayers also claim than although Elon has a dual major B.S. degree in economics and physics but he is neither a physicist nor an engineer.

There are at least 10k Americans over the age of 30 that dreamed of starting their own car companies when they were 13.

RJ is #2 in that race.

I am not a fan of slinging at the doers.

Not interested in arguing for arguing's sake or name calling like "erslinging at the doers". I'm a Ph.D. physicist and absolutely loved Elon and his first principle of engineering from the day I heard it. This guy is no Elon. I have spent my entire career in Silicon Valley start ups and have seen them all. A lot of eager people who would do or say anything to get people to fund his/her "idea". In the end only ones that make real sense survive. No exceptions. We'll see how this turns out. I have zero hope for it but you of course don't have to agree.

 

[TT97]

Daimler has also said Tesla is breaking the laws of physics.

Has the SEC fined Elon for that yet?

 

[Tardigrade]

Jumping in at the end of this argument to say that I also preordered an R1S. It looks very Land Rover-esque to me (well, in the back side. The front... may grow on me) and all the capabilities they say it's going to have are what I really want to see in an SUV. I hope it works out. I'm trying to get rid of a lemon Pacifica Hybrid and plan to get myself a Model X or S to hold myself over in the meantime, since it'll probably be three years before the R1S rolls out. I'm also going to the invitation thing in NYC in April to check it out in person, pretty exciting.