Roundabouts indicator challenge in Western Australia

[TM3RWD]

My test drive of the stalkless Model 3 was fine (good enough for me to order one soon) but I wondered how much indicating out of roundabouts might be an issue for me. It seems overblown as In WA indicating out (when wheel position would be most challenging) is encouraged not mandatory:

More road rules and penalties.

Turning left​

• On approach, indicate left from the left lane.
• Stay in the left lane.
• Exit the roundabout from this lane.

Driving straight ahead​

• You do not need to indicate on approach.
• Enter in either the left or right lane.
• Stay in and exit from the same lane.
• If practicable, indicate left when you’ve passed the last exit before the one you intend to use.

Turning right or making a full turn​

• On approach, indicate right from the right lane.
• Stay in the right lane and exit the roundabout from this lane.
• If practicable, indicate left when you’ve passed the last exit before the one you intend to use.

 

[Jules22]

I found it easy to get used to, both with the real M3H and I've also been using my current car's volume button as a trick to get my muscle memory used to it while I wait for my M3H to be delivered.

For exiting off, you only need to worry about the left button, so you know where that is in relation to the steering wheel, you can see and know what position the steering wheel is in out of the corner of your eye, without needing to take your eyes off the road, and I've been able to hit the indicator button or substitute every time using that method. (even with the added complexity in my current car of having to indicate using the stalk as well).

If someone was REALLY struggling they could just stick one of those red or yellow sticky dots on the left indicator button until they get used to it, but I don't think that should be necessary. Of course last resort is the aftermarket stalks.

This is all in the roundabout capital of the world, Canberra where I'm constantly driving through dozens of roundabouts of all sizes.

 

[Zoltrix77]

I just find the argument that it "saves costs" on building the vehicle insane. They designed a new steering wheel, backup shifter buttons, new steering column cowl etc etc. Lets be honest, on a vehicle this is a $20 part, most people want the stalks and it would have been cheaper to leave it.

 

[X Æ A-12]

I like the design, I’ve seen BMWs and Mercs that have more issue with indication.

 

[Midnight Man]

The real problem here is dual lane roundabouts where the driver is turning right.

You enter the roundabout in the right lane, with the right hand indicator on - that's easy on approach.

However, to exit, you are now crossing 2 lanes of traffic (the traffic that is oncoming to your original direction of travel). Without turning on your left indicator as you're about to exit the roundabout, traffic in the left oncoming lane would have no idea you are about to exit, particularly if you cannot "locate" your indicator button to at least turn off your right hand indicator. In such a situation, that left lane of oncoming traffic would rightly assume you are continuing to turn, and may therefore enter the roundabout, causing a collision.

I get where Tesla is coming from in their design and aesthetics, but there are some things that you just can't compromise on, this being one of them IMO. I've seen a YouTube video taken in the UK on this very issue, and it makes for interesting viewing:

 

[paulp]

I like the design, I’ve seen BMWs and Mercs that have more issue with indication.

And the relevance is?

 

[X Æ A-12]

And the relevance is?

Most people with indicators on stalks fail to use them correctly anyway

 

[TM3RWD]

The real problem here is dual lane roundabouts where the driver is turning right.

You enter the roundabout in the right lane, with the right hand indicator on - that's easy on approach.

However, to exit, you are now crossing 2 lanes of traffic (the traffic that is oncoming to your original direction of travel). Without turning on your left indicator as you're about to exit the roundabout, traffic in the left oncoming lane would have no idea you are about to exit, particularly if you cannot "locate" your indicator button to at least turn off your right hand indicator. In such a situation, that left lane of oncoming traffic would rightly assume you are continuing to turn, and may therefore enter the roundabout, causing a collision.

I get where Tesla is coming from in their design and aesthetics, but there are some things that you just can't compromise on, this being one of them IMO. I've seen a YouTube video taken in the UK on this very issue, and it makes for interesting viewing:

I hadn't thought about that scenario. An adaptive response would be to get into the left lane before entering the roundabout to avoid having to cross lanes exiting the roundabout. I am keeping a watch on the Sexy Button offer that might extend to a bluetooth indicator-stalk-equivalent (knobby button?).

Otherwise just get adept at finding the left turn button.

 

[cafz]

I hadn't thought about that scenario. An adaptive response would be to get into the left lane before entering the roundabout to avoid having to cross lanes exiting the roundabout.

In general you cannot "turn right" (exit the roundabout at the third or later exit) from the left lane of a multi-lane roundabout. In most cases the right lane is permitted to exit at the second exit, and you'd be cutting them off.

 

[aegidius]

Two lane roundabouts always have several points where traffic can cut other traffic off. Otherwise you could never get out of the inside lane. You're in those spots so briefly that it seems hardly worth indicating at all, to me at least. Qld rules here.

 

[cafz]

Two lane roundabouts always have several points where traffic can cut other traffic off. Otherwise you could never get out of the inside lane.

No, if you follow the rules or the arrow markings, you should never be cutting anyone off. Any place where you are crossing the outside lane to exit from the inside lane, the outside lane traffic that entered with you should be exiting as well, and no traffic from later entrances should have entered because it had to give way to you, as traffic already on the roundabout.

 

[moa999]

Correct.. albeit some drivers turning left will try and scoot through it a car is in the inner lane and not signalling.

 

[Midnight Man]

Two lane roundabouts always have several points where traffic can cut other traffic off. Otherwise you could never get out of the inside lane. You're in those spots so briefly that it seems hardly worth indicating at all, to me at least. Qld rules here.

NSW Rules are here: Roundabouts

Please carefully note the word "Must indicate if practical" on leaving... I would argue that "My car is insufficiently designed to allow indicator use whilst in a roundabout" isn't going to wash well.

I am slightly surprised that the Model 3 Highland, as it stands, has gained regulatory approval (though only on this aspect).

I will also note this situation would be completely solved if there were buttons in fixed positions (i.e. not on the steering wheel).

S3XY buttons may be a viable workaround here, or S3XY knob.

 

[X Æ A-12]

many cars have stalkless designs.

 

[Jules22]

many cars have stalkless designs.

Yes, not like it's new, they've had it in the X and S for quite a while now, so it's clear they believe it is worth keeping and are very unlikely to be going back.

Also four other manufacturers who have released vehicles with indicator buttons rather than on stalk and a number of others with concept vehicles using that design. I think the writing is on the wall.

One thing Tesla could easily do for those who for whatever reason struggle on roundabouts is implement that into the auto indicator code for at least the situations where you have a navigation route active, it could automatically do the indicator off of the roundabout. Not really required but may help some who are struggling.

 

[Quickst]

auto indicator code

And Tesla will disclaimer it as a "beta". . And another thread will have to be created here for all the people unhappy with its implementation.

 

[Vostok]

Also four other manufacturers who have released vehicles with indicator buttons rather than on stalk and a number of others with concept vehicles using that design. I think the writing is on the wall.

Yes, but has anyone else removed the stalk/knob/shifter to change gears?

I’m mostly OK with indicator buttons on the steering wheel. I am less fine with swiping the screen or reaching for the dome buttons to change gears. I mean, what’s the point of getting rid of the gear stalk, but then deciding it might be essential to replace that functionality with four buttons on the dome as a failsafe?? Net cost/complication benefit of that is what, zero?

 

[moa999]

Yes, but has anyone else removed the stalk/knob/shifter to change gears?

Plenty of 'sports' vehicles have F1 style shifters.

 

[X Æ A-12]

Yes, but has anyone else removed the stalk/knob/shifter to change gears?

I’m mostly OK with indicator buttons on the steering wheel. I am less fine with swiping the screen or reaching for the dome buttons to change gears. I mean, what’s the point of getting rid of the gear stalk, but then deciding it might be essential to replace that functionality with four buttons on the dome as a failsafe?? Net cost/complication benefit of that is what, zero?

You truly think they didn’t discuss this? Like your comment is the first to ever think of the net cost of the removal.

 

[Jules22]

You truly think they didn’t discuss this? Like your comment is the first to ever think of the net cost of the removal.

Yeah I highly doubt a few basic buttons are anywhere near the cost of a stalk.

They've obviously weighed it up and not only implemented it with the S and X but have clearly evaluated it as worth continuing after having it in vehicles for some time.