Rumor Mill: Upcoming 500-Mile Range For Tesla Model S, 400 For Model X

[Xn3Fan]

Where are all you folks going that needs 500 miles of range?

At 65mph, that’s nearly 8 straight hours of driving. Is there a store that sells a bladder fluid to stomach solid conversion device?

 

[Xn3Fan]

We drive a lot in the winter and lose 20% or more range. We're driving at 70 most of the time; 60 in the cities. With a cushion at the low end of 10%, we're only getting 350 miles range. That's only 5 hours... quite doable.
I hadn't planned to get rid of my X, but, for 400 miles of range, I'll definitely give it serious consideration.
BTW, my friends with travel trailers will love the extra range.

 

[Uncle Paul]

If it cost $20,000 to increase your range from 350 miles to 400 miles, how many would pay the cost to upgrade?

 

[Rowan256]

I think I would need it about twice a year, so can't that be an option? Charge it from 0-10 for double the price, from 10 to 80% for the normal price, the 80% to 90% for a double the price and the 90% to 100% for 4 times the price? That way you also avoid a few delays at the superchargers. And let's get real, the Tesla normal price is like 25 cents, all other fast charging options cost between 59 cent and 89 cent in The Netherlands at least, for every kWh.

 

[Uncle Paul]

It might cost a lot for Tesla to add additional batteries to make a 120 pack.

 

[Rowan256]

It might cost a lot for Tesla to add additional batteries to make a 120 pack.

Battery day might stun us all.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Agreed. Most are looking forward to Battery day. You could hear the contained excitement in Elon's voice when he announced they hoped to address it around April (Elon time.)

 

[dark cloud]

If it cost $20,000 to increase your range from 350 miles to 400 miles, how many would pay the cost to upgrade?

And then I would pay Tesla $10-15k to upgrade to the pack they just removed from his car to go from 250 to 350 miles. Hey, I think you are on to something here...

 

[mswlogo]

It might cost a lot for Tesla to add additional batteries to make a 120 pack.

It will more likely cost less and they will charge about the same. I don’t know the exact numbers but Model 3 battery packs are packed tighter and cooled better and a slightly smaller cell. I don’t know if that accounts for 20%. It might not be all kWh to reach 400 miles on X and 500 on S. But a Model 3 style battery is probably part of it.

400 miles on X is a 20% boost. 500 miles on S is a 30% boost.

 

[AdamMacDon]

I wouldn't even be surprised if a styrofoam plate underneath the battery pack in
the winter could extend the range by quite a bit in the winter, right now it loses it's warmth too easy.

An interesting idea, I find the pack holds heat really well when parked, I'll come back several hours later on a day that is nearly freezing and if the car was fully warm when I left it, there is still usually some heat left. However, splashing water and slush seem to REALLY slow down it's warm up times and almost halt them on some days.

They certainly do and I’ve replaced some. Older cars more than newer ones. But I’m nick picking since that degradation doesn’t have anything to do with range and just leads to a fuel leak.

Your concerns are around keeping the battery healthy. What does happen with gas cars is sludge can build in the tank, which does reduce range. Cars with in tank fuel pumps also generally rely on a filled tank to do double duty to cool the pump. It is generally recommended not to run those tanks down for too long as then the pump won’t cool as well. But I don’t recall the last time someone talked about keeping their gas tank above 1/2 tank to prevent their fuel pump from overheating or getting clogged by junk.

All of your concerns are valid, but let’s not pretend they don’t affect ICE vehicles too. Tow in the cold with a diesel engine and you’re not going to get 25mpg. You’re going to get 14mpg. Which means your range has dropped by 44%. Sounds pretty darn familiar to doing the same in an X.

Sure a bigger gas tank/battery would be nice, but the real issue is charging infrastructure and speed. I don’t want a 1000 mile battery. It’d be heavy, I rarely go 1000 miles straight, and I’d constantly pay the weight penalty of it. What I want is a quicker fill rate. I want to go from empty to full on a battery pack within 15 minutes - regardless of pack size.

Even with the current infrastructure, solving the charging speed issue would make even a 60D ok. Go back to an ICE, there are quite a bit of cars with small fuel tanks. imagine if it took an hour to fill up the gas tank. How much of a pain would that be?

I was one of those people who always left at least a 1/4 tank of gas in my ICE car to save the fuel pump from overheating. The gunk story is just that, a story. Modern gas is really clean, there are fuel filters, and most importantly, where do people think the fuel pickup point is? Lowest point on the tank of course, ahaha! I once replaced a fuel pump because of overheating and I learned my lesson! Took me $300 and a lot of crawling under my car in the mud to fix.

Agreed that the current Tesla lineup is more than sufficient for range IF the infrastructure was there. Driving my SR+ from Canada down to the Mexican border was easy and stress free, Cali is the home of Tesla and I never worried about charging much. It was pretty much the same as driving a gas car, you only think about it around 25%, then go fuel up and go back to forgetting about it.

 

[Daisame]

Where are all you folks going that needs 500 miles of range?

At 65mph, that’s nearly 8 straight hours of driving. Is there a store that sells a bladder fluid to stomach solid conversion device?

For daily drives, most people don't need it. But for people that spend all day on the road, or for those weekend road trips, having the extra range is nice. It helps to also ease those that are still suffering from range anxiety, but I would argue those are for people who don't currently drive EVs. Because most people who do drive them know you don't normally need a huge range as long as you are full every morning from a home charger.

 

[rbirell]

Sure 500 miles. Well except what they don't tell you is 250 miles in the winter.
Yes I own a Model S, and I get 1/2 the mileage when it's cold, the battery just
is less efficient and the heater uses WAY too much electricity for some reason.
A tiny 500 W space heater would heat that cabin in a minute and not waste
the constant battery drain of Tesla's super innefficient heater.

Electric heaters are 100% efficient. All the electrical energy is converted to heat.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

You seem to miss the fact that many Tesla drivers live in cold environments, use ski racks, and don't drive 65

Hey, that's me!

On long drives in the dead of winter I don't see anywhere near a 50% drop...though short drives (where range doesn't matter) I do see a significant drop of around 40%.

People losing 50% battery on drives where they actually need the range are clearly doing something wrong, or they need to book a service appointment.

 

[Krash]

If the battery is a mixture of cells and supercaps maybe. Not sure if you can call a conglomerate of supercaps a "battery" though.

Super and Ultra capacitors are a magnitude less energy dense than batteries by volume. Although they would be a great addition to manage short duration power needs like regen and max performance requirements, It doesn't make sense to put them in the battery pack as that is valuable space and the capacitors likely don't need the cooling. Better to stuff capacitors other places in the car.

 

[Rowan256]

Electric heaters are 100% efficient. All the electrical energy is converted to heat.

And a tiny bit of light, or movement (when the heater got a fan).

 

[Evbwcaer]

Electric heaters are 100% efficient. All the electrical energy is converted to heat.

My electric water heater is 355% efficient (energy factor of 3.55), so there is a lot of room past 100%.

 

[dark cloud]

My electric water heater is 355% efficient (energy factor of 3.55), so there is a lot of room past 100%.

uhm, that defies the laws of conservation of energy.

 

[Daniel in SD]

uhm, that defies the laws of conservation of energy.

He has a heat pump water heater. It cools down the air around it. Thermodynamic laws remain unbroken.

 

[Brovane]

I wonder if this new pack for the S&X will support the same charging speeds as the Model 3 packs.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Probably much faster.