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Russia/Ukraine conflict
- Thread starter amolina
- Start date
Algeria has been a customer of Russian military hardware for some time. Algeria is also a supplier of gas to the EU.
Blinken visited them a few days ago.
RIght now, an Algerian military/government Gulfstream is on final approach to Moscow airport.
Anyone know what this could be about? Any significance?
More background on Algeria's involvement in the current Ukraine situation here:
www.washingtoninstitute.org
Blinken visited them a few days ago.
RIght now, an Algerian military/government Gulfstream is on final approach to Moscow airport.
Anyone know what this could be about? Any significance?
More background on Algeria's involvement in the current Ukraine situation here:
Ukraine Invasion Ushers in Algeria’s Return
Although the wave of Western overtures is understandable, Algeria is unlikely to make up for Europe’s energy supply gaps or take other actions that give the appearance of choosing sides.
TheTalkingMule
Distributed Energy Enthusiast
It's only 450 miles by road from southern Polish cities to Kyiv. Is it feasible to provide Tesla armored autonomous Semis for materials transport?
petit_bateau
Active Member
Unfortunately what we are seeing here is basically a replay of what Russia under the control of Putin has previously done in :
Chechnya
Ingushettia
Abkhazia
South Ossettia
Syria (Aleppo & Homs, etc)
Luhanks & Donets (Donbass)
which us why they know exactly what to do.
The extent of violence was significantly less in the Crimea, so that ought to be considered somewhat differently from a quantitative perspective, but not a qualitative one.
The Russians (via their operatives, Wagner Group) have yet to get sufficient control in either eastern Libya or in Mali to be fully accountable for the issues there.
It is time to bring Putin to a stop.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
One more interview with Khodorkovsky. This time on CNN.
"Exiled Russian oligarch Mikhail Khodorkovsky discusses President Vladimir Putin's mindset and what his remaining options are in the war against Ukraine."
"Exiled Russian oligarch Mikhail Khodorkovsky discusses President Vladimir Putin's mindset and what his remaining options are in the war against Ukraine."
The Nuclear threat Putin is using to scare the world into inaction is not a one-side-only threat.
It is the weapon of mutually assured destruction, including the complete annihilation of Russia.
He knows this, but that does not matter. It should be communicated abundantly clearly to him publicly.
The bully needs to be bullied back.
It is the weapon of mutually assured destruction, including the complete annihilation of Russia.
He knows this, but that does not matter. It should be communicated abundantly clearly to him publicly.
The bully needs to be bullied back.
Taiwan has one big thing in common with Ukraine: its populace wants nothing to do with the larger bully on its doorstep. Ukraine had seen what Russia did to Chechnya, parts of Georgia, and later to their own territory of Crimea, and now, even Ukrainians that used to be okay with Russia controlling parts of the east have turned on what they previously thought was a friendly country. In Taiwan, the same thing holds, except it wasn't Chechnya or Georgia or Crimea that was the catalyst, it was Hong Kong. Tsai Ing-Wen probably would have been defeated in the last election except the PRC decided to meddle in Hong Kong, and at that point, Taiwan's populace decided that they didn't want to vote for a candidate that was pushing a platform of closer ties to the PRC.
They did do this. Remember the USSR, check out the czarist era geographies over a couple fo hundred years, or go earlier. Borders have never been terribly consistent. For them, and the rest of Europe.
It just is not that simple.
Doggydogworld
Active Member
C'mon, no company is going to invest while Putin is in power, anyway. He know that.
Those failures predated sanctions and were due to internal corruption.
Terrified? Good grief. Countries with a fraction of China's economic power openly flaunt the sanctions. China is not happy with Putin, but they won't submit to US bullying.
Louis Vuitton??? You can't possibly be serious. You really think Putin gives a rat's ass about Louis Freaking Vuitton?
I'll repeat myself again and again. Russians will experience hardship (even worse than the loss of overpriced handbags, lol). Their economy will contract. Inflation will be high. There will be spot shortages, sometimes of necessary goods. None of this will stop Putin, or even materially affect him. He's fighting to reverse the "greatest tragedy of the 20th century", to reassemble an empire and establish his place in history alongside Stalin and Tsars.
The collapse came a decade after the start of that war. I completely agree Putin's empire will likely collapse by 2032. I also agree we must impose sanctions, to express moral outrage if nothing else. But I dispute this absurd notion that sanctions will "bring Russia's economy to its knees" and force Putin to the table or even out of office. That's a fantasy. North Korea has suffered worse sanctions for decades, with vastly fewer resources. Iran is a similar story..
Ukraine (with many more of our weapons) must beat Russia badly on the battlefield. That's the only way to get to Putin. After a cease fire or armistice or whatever we can allow sanctions to slowly grind away.
Belief in such fables impedes our efforts to take the riskier and potentially ugly steps which are actually necessary.
FX rate is just a signal. The real question is whether Russia can buy what they need (not want). Almost everyone here says they can't. I say they can.
Knock it off. We're all here to try and understand. I've said repeatedly the Russian economy will suck. Standard of living will decline. Putin doesn't care. Ex-oligarch (and ex-prisoner) Mikhail Khodorovsky was on CNN today, saying Putin no longer even cares about his own wealth. And that makes him much more dangerous. As long as we keep fooling ourselves about this, and keep looking at things through a western lens, we will be ineffective.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Actually it is a price increase because Gazprombank sets the FX rate, not any sort of market. It is not 'just a signal' it is a thinly disguised price increase. Will it work? Another question. We'll see.
OK, you're right. I should not have said that.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
The war crime was Putin attacking Ukraine for no reason, indiscriminate missile attacks and bombing civilians. Interesting this comes out at the same time Ukraine forces are taking back and finding Russian murders of civilians.
I’m not going to condone torture by the Ukrainians, but let’s please don’t do the equivalence thing. That’s a trap used by an aggressor or bully to minimize their bad actions. Yes, call out any actions that are abhorrent, but focus most forcefully on the clear evil - mobile crematories and 45,000 body bags. Makes my skin crawl to write those words.
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
As to polls showing 80% of Russians supporting Putin, I saw a Western expert on TV who claimed to be in contact with the Russian polling organization. He explained it like this. Let's say you are an average Russian. You get a phone call and someone says, "Do you support Putin?" You're going to think twice before answering "No". No one wants THAT knock on the door, even if in reality it would never happen.
But all that aside, I believe that either a majority of Russians or perhaps a large minority strongly support Putin, but for reasons other than the Ukrainian war. This demographic is poorer, older and more religious than the average younger Russian. It's steeped in Cold War fervor and like Putin, wants a return to the Soviet era. This bloc has far more influence than its actual size. Its zeal keeps Putin in power.
But all that aside, I believe that either a majority of Russians or perhaps a large minority strongly support Putin, but for reasons other than the Ukrainian war. This demographic is poorer, older and more religious than the average younger Russian. It's steeped in Cold War fervor and like Putin, wants a return to the Soviet era. This bloc has far more influence than its actual size. Its zeal keeps Putin in power.
In 18 months EU could, if it moves aggressively sanction all oil. If this happens and there are no exemptions granted to India or China by the USA and EU than the sanctions will in effect destroy the Russian economy. EU has to keep moving.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Nobody is condoning anything.
But don’t fall victim to propaganda of one side or the other.
Afterall clearly many war criminals on the US side went unpunished in Vietnam war.
I’ve to say one thing. Some people on this thread just don’t want anything that is not CIA approved posted here. They will attack everyone who post anything different.
We’ll said. Some people get so wrapped up in propaganda, they become part of it.
ps : Here is an excellent look at Russian justification and propaganda within Russia. If we don’t get it, we won’t understand why Russians are behaving the way they are.
It seems to be they are somewhat copying Iraq war propaganda methods. Nazis = terrorists.
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The Nazi "Final Solution" wasn't proposed until 1942 when the US was already in the war. The Nazis did discriminate against Jews, Gypsies, and other "undesirables" starting in the 30s. Before the war started most of what the Nazis were doing was not that dramatically different from what was happening in the US South. One thing the US did do to its shame in those years was turn away ship loads of Jewish people fleeing the oppression in Germany.
The Nazis admired the whites in the US South before the war.
The mass deaths started after the war in Europe started, but they started out small scale and mostly in secret. First they started putting the undesirables in labor camps. When they invaded an area where there were a lot of Jews or Gypsies they would exterminate a lot of them, but an officer high up in the SS was disgusted by the mess of shooting them, so he contributed to the "clean" solution of poison gas.
Most of the mass murders were in the east, first in Poland, then in Soviet territory during Barbarossa. Mostly people were taken to the forest, lined up and shot in secret. If any news got out at all, it was just rumors.
The Soviets did their own atrocities too. In 1939 the Soviets divided up Poland with the Germans taking a slice of Polish territory for their own. The Germans took it all in 1941 though. After the war the Soviets moved the eastern Polish border to the line where the Russians stopped in 1939. Lviv was Polish up until 1939. Though it was traded back and forth between Eastern European countries over the centuries. The borders of Eastern Europe have historically been quite fluid.
When the Russians took the eastern slice of Poland in 1939 they took all the captured officers and killed them en masse. The mass grave was found in Belarus, Poland, or Ukraine (I can't remember now) about 20 years ago. The Russians back then could be quite brutal too.
But the mass murder of Polish officers wasn't proven until this century.
These mass atrocities were done in secret and proving it was difficult. Now it's much harder to hide these things when social media is still working.
The Russians had planned this style of warfare from the beginning. But they had planned to have complete control over the media before they did so they could do this in the shadows and there would just be rumors, but no proof until someone dug up the mass graves many years from now.
The Chinese don't have the ability to make the highest tech ICs. One reason they haven't made a move on Taiwan is because Taiwan makes some of the most complex chips they need and they don't have any way to reproduce them. Taiwan has probably made arrangements and told the Chinese that they will move that fab to someplace far away from Chinese control if the Chinese invade and they will just inherit the smoking ruins of the fab facilities.
The Chinese are not masters of all industries. They only recently figured out how to make the balls on ball point pens. They made a lot of ball point pens, but had to import all the balls.
Always blame the other guy for what you're doing. A good thing to keep in mind for nationalist politicians in democracies too. They do the same thing.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
The problem is you seem intent on whataboutism, much of it completely irrelevant to the current situation. Yes people have done bad things in the past, and are doing so right now in many places, will do so again in the future. Sure there are "bad" people on both sides. So what? Only one side is the aggressor here and this will only stop when they do.
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