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Russia/Ukraine conflict
- Thread starter amolina
- Start date
You can give them fighter aircraft but unless you give them the ammo missiles and bombs that the planes use they are useless. F16s use 20mm. How many thousands of rounds do we give them? Support equipment to process, download and upload that 20mm? AIM-9 missiles how many should we give them? Without the weapons they carry and the support equipment needed to take care of the aircraft the planes are no good. 20mm is a pain to process but not as bad as 30mm. Unless you use NATO air bases to process these aircraft and the weapon systems it won't work
Looks like the turrent popped and drove down into the elevated road bed. The whole tank did not just slide into ground without breaking the pavement.
I posted a link to a thread from retired US general Mark Hertling yesterday who lays out the argument why it would be a bad idea to give the Ukrainians a lot of sophisticated western equipment now. He's an ex tanker so that's his expertise. He thinks the Ukrainians could learn to fight the M-1 Abrams in a week or so, but it would take months to train the mechanics, even with a crash course. The western military equipment is very different and often vastly more complex than Russian equipment. Learning to operate it is not the hard part. Training people who are already working 100 hours a week maintaining what Ukraine has would be impossible in the middle of a full blown war.
Hertling said that a crash course on just turret maintenance for the M-1 was a month. Maintenance for the engine and lower chassis is at least another month.
One reason the Russians may not want the Ukrainians to get the NATO MiGs is that those planes have probably been modified to carry NATO ordinance which is in abundant supply and the Ukrainian MiGs have a limited supply of missiles.
Poland is getting Abrams tanks. Yes, we need to arm Ukraine, but we also need to arm all the other border countries as well.
Poland signs $4.75 billion Abrams tank deal as Russia’s war speeds procurements
https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2022/04/05/poland-signs-475-billion-abrams-tank-deal-as-russias-war-speeds-procurements/
Poland signs $4.75 billion Abrams tank deal as Russia’s war speeds procurements
https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2022/04/05/poland-signs-475-billion-abrams-tank-deal-as-russias-war-speeds-procurements/
In that pocket are the 126th Separate Guards Coastal Defense Brigade and the 11th Separate Guards Air Assault Brigade. Approximate strength 2 BTGs.
UAWarData
The Russians have a large force, one of the most concentrated in the country west of Kherson. They haven't moved of a week, which is indicative of supply problems. The high concentration of HQs is odd. That could also mean that those are shattered remnants of destroyed units. Probably broken trying to take Mykolaiv.
Tiger
Active Member
On the same note, every country bordering Russia needs something like this Israeli army to build laser-based shield against missiles
Furhtermore, it should be configured in such a way that it can eliminate tanks, missiles, and aircraft.
Wouldn't hurt if the laser could vaporize infantry, too.
Along the borders they should lay The Most Effective Weapon on the Modern Battlefield is Concrete - Modern War Institute in such a way that anyone coming through is slowed down enough to allow time to focus crosshairs on them.
And it should be autonomous with sufficient redundancy planning.
Laser-based attack and defence systems have been in development for many, many years but hardly ever in actual use. It's one of those things that's always "a year away".
Whatever you might think, they are not the magic pill and have several drawbacks, particularly if you wanted to deploy them in this type of conflict.
Israel's Iron Dome air defence system, however, is very effective and would probably make a big difference if they would agree to supply them to Ukraine. The only issue there is that there's a very large area to cover with it, especially as Russia doesn't really care much about where their missiles and shells are targeted half the time. Would be useful to have around Odessa and Kyiv, Kharkif and in the west protecting the supply routes from Poland.
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I consider Putin a cross between Stalin & Hitler, who seems determined to surpass both in level of cruelty & barbarism. You know, Putin’s also a big fan of Ivan the Terrible, so his interest in his historical roots of hideous torture does go way back.
As long as NATO’s attitude of “don’t upset Putin...” continues, it would likely get worse. Now is the time to start suppling Ukraine with crippling offensive weapons to take the fight to Russia.
If cruise missiles can be launched from Russia into Ukraine, then the reverse is also a fair game. If Russia is not feeling serious pain, they would punish Ukraine for as long as possible. I monitor the situation on russian losses on russialosses.com and hope their missiles end soon
As long as NATO’s attitude of “don’t upset Putin...” continues, it would likely get worse. Now is the time to start suppling Ukraine with crippling offensive weapons to take the fight to Russia.
If cruise missiles can be launched from Russia into Ukraine, then the reverse is also a fair game. If Russia is not feeling serious pain, they would punish Ukraine for as long as possible. I monitor the situation on russian losses on russialosses.com and hope their missiles end soon
Tiger
Active Member
I think we need to get past the "it's too hard to make a reusable rocket" mentality. Such system can be made and it can be incrementally improved alongside other proven solutions. Maybe it could use FSD vision.
I've worked with lasers in various fields for over 40 years so I have a good understanding of this technology and there are just some particularly difficult obstacles to overcome when it comes to a directed energy weapon of any sort. They were and are a money-pit so as long as there are conventional alternatives which do a reasonable job and come in under budget, that's what's going to be used on the battlefield and in the air.
I'm sure Elon could find a way to make them work, but he's not working at DARPA (AFAIK).
Images coming in from Borodyanka. Looks like no one has made it alive who was left there.
When russians we're approaching Vyborg in 1940 and had claimed that the area was theirs, all the Finns left and houses were set on fire on the way out. Even then, some people were left behind and ended up dead or at camps in Russia.
Finns knew what to expect from Russian invaders.
When russians we're approaching Vyborg in 1940 and had claimed that the area was theirs, all the Finns left and houses were set on fire on the way out. Even then, some people were left behind and ended up dead or at camps in Russia.
Finns knew what to expect from Russian invaders.
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I've had similar thoughts about the redeployment of the troops pulled out of the north
Thread by @PhillipsPOBrien on Thread Reader App
Throwing badly mauled units back into action is like trying to run a marathon with a broken leg. It's not only going to hurt, it could lead to permanent damage.
By normal military measures the units that fought in the north are a spent force. Even Stalin would pull them out of action to rebuild, but Putin is sending them back into the fray. They are depleted and in some cases broken now, trying to use them for anything but emergency second tier defense (in a very bad defensive scenario) will likely decimate them.
Another thread on the state of the Russian army
Thread by @kamilkazani on Thread Reader App
I have read this elsewhere, the Russians have mobilized anyone left in the occupied Donbas to be cannon fodder and they have been throwing them at the Ukrainians in WW I style mass charges. Another form of genocide.
Thread by @PhillipsPOBrien on Thread Reader App
Throwing badly mauled units back into action is like trying to run a marathon with a broken leg. It's not only going to hurt, it could lead to permanent damage.
By normal military measures the units that fought in the north are a spent force. Even Stalin would pull them out of action to rebuild, but Putin is sending them back into the fray. They are depleted and in some cases broken now, trying to use them for anything but emergency second tier defense (in a very bad defensive scenario) will likely decimate them.
Another thread on the state of the Russian army
Thread by @kamilkazani on Thread Reader App
I have read this elsewhere, the Russians have mobilized anyone left in the occupied Donbas to be cannon fodder and they have been throwing them at the Ukrainians in WW I style mass charges. Another form of genocide.
I'm definitely not an expert. Still, the Brazilian program could be a model fro the longer term Ukraine solution, assuming Ukraine can somehow survive the present hostilities. The versatility and support simplicity of the Gripen make it an almost obvious choice. In the meantime there are plenty of obvious choices now, mostly with US source and supply. All of those do require much more robust support than could be deployed quickly. For quick deployment there seem to be no alternative than more MIG those are not rare.
I do suspect the immediate important issues are command and control help, plus high-altitude surface to air missiles and drones (loitering can help. If they are to survive do they not need to be able to destroy logistical support of the Russian forces in Crimea, Belarus and Russia? Somehow the fight needs to be offensive if this si to end favorably.
Is that not true? It seems NATO and US military people have that sort of conclusion, but politically such a thing is fraught. The world needs to face reality.
Anyway, Sweden has long been really efficient in military tactical and strategic solutions. Were those resources somehow to be deployed many equations would change.
When Putin's stated opinions and goals have been clear ever since he was in Saint Petersburg I really cannot understand how the world keeps dithering. He'll never stop until the world stops him. Ukraine cannot do it alone. No single country can.
I have been in too many war zones even though I have never been a military person. Ones like this one never end until the aggressors are stopped or the defenders are obliterated.
Even those have festering resentments that can arise decades or even centuries later. In this one the NATO members and non-member allies have thus far kept Imperial Russia contained. That is only stoppable with overwhelming strength and unshakable resolve. Northern Europeans all understand history. The North and South Americans almost always fail to understand. They maintain their ignorance of China and nearly all of Asia. Now all that ignorance has combined with greed fro cheap fossil fuels.
Sorry for my rant. it is probably unhelpful.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Doggydogworld
Active Member
Should have left the houses standing and spiked all their liquor bottles with arsenic.
Tiger
Active Member
Interesting story about useful idiots:
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