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Russia/Ukraine conflict

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If true, this is some real *sugar*. Supposedly Musk turned off Starlink so Ukrainian drones couldn't attack Russian ships.

CNN —
Elon Musk secretly ordered his engineers to turn off his company’s Starlink satellite communications network near the Crimean coast last year to disrupt a Ukrainian sneak attack on the Russian naval fleet, according to an excerpt adapted from Walter Isaacson’s new biography of the eccentric billionaire titled “Elon Musk.”



We have on the one hand an established author who has been writing an authorized biography of Elon saying that he shut is off, and on the other we have Elon saying he's wrong. I would think that contemporaneous text messages and emails would prove it.
 

More info on the push south of Robotyne by a great source. Also I will note that many mappers have moved the serious fortifications south of Robo into gray zone or into Ukraine. I expect that by this weekend that clarifies. Also many mappers have significantly widened the salient.
 

More info on the push south of Robotyne by a great source. Also I will note that many mappers have moved the serious fortifications south of Robo into gray zone or into Ukraine. I expect that by this weekend that clarifies. Also many mappers have significantly widened the salient.
Reporting from Ukraine reported something similar. He says the Ukrainians outflanked a Russian flanking maneuver southwest of Robotyne.

6 Sep: Next Level Warfare. Russians Don’t Know What to Do
 
There are many things Elon does that I strongly disagree with but IMO he was mostly a hero when he provided Starlink service to Ukraine so quickly. Of course, no good deed will go unpunished.
To be fair, only a minority of people were upset by that ("he's in for the fame!") but the backpedaling and "playing both sides".

I actually don't know if I prefer Musk to decide things or a US General... but it's a taboo discourse. Musk is now able to decide things outside the political/military hierarchy, and this is too much for a lot of people.
He's actually playing a dangerous game, for himself and for others. All things considered, he should understand that go with his gut is dangerous in situation like this, there are a lot of lives at stake, and it's quite easy to make damaging mistakes.
 
I actually don't know if I prefer Musk to decide things or a US General... but it's a taboo discourse. Musk is now able to decide things outside the political/military hierarchy, and this is too much for a lot of people.
He's actually playing a dangerous game, for himself and for others. All things considered, he should understand that go with his gut is dangerous in situation like this, there are a lot of lives at stake, and it's quite easy to make damaging mistakes.
This is the opposite of what happened, this entire episode occurred because Elon Musk *does not* want to make these life and death decisions, thus him asking "How am I in this war?". Shotwell made it very clear it is the government who should fund the military operation and make the decisions, not a private company, certainly not a private individual, that's why she wanted DoD to pay for Starlink and make the decisions. Except some idiot inside DoD leaked the negotiation and nearly sunk the deal, that person is the real traitor.
 
To be fair, only a minority of people were upset by that ("he's in for the fame!") but the backpedaling and "playing both sides".
I don't fully understand what you are saying. Elon provided the service for free. Months later he asked to get paid and he got condemned by many people with his request for payment being misinterpreted or spun into him making a threat or ultimatum. As the anti-Elon fervor kept growing he gave in and said "okay okay we will keep providing the service for free" (or words to that effect).

He did a good deed for free. Months later he asked that SpaceX get paid for what it was doing to stop losing money on it and he got condemned. That was the punishment for his good deed.

I actually don't know if I prefer Musk to decide things or a US General... but it's a taboo discourse. Musk is now able to decide things outside the political/military hierarchy, and this is too much for a lot of people.
That was not the choice. The choice was either Musk provide internet access via Starlink or none would be provided. The US military was not ready, willing, or able to do it.

SpaceX has longstanding ties with the US military. I am certain some approval by the US military was given either before or after Elon said he would provide the service. They were well aware of the situation and could have objected if they wanted to. Something like this had to have the consent of the US government or military.

He's actually playing a dangerous game, for himself and for others. All things considered, he should understand that go with his gut is dangerous in situation like this, there are a lot of lives at stake, and it's quite easy to make damaging mistakes.
Elon has been clear about what his approach would be in the context of FSD. He said that even if we save a thousand lives and cause one death, the thousand lives saved will be ignored and we will be blamed for the death. But we should do it anyway because it's the right thing to do.

This Starlink in Ukraine thing started shortly after the invasion when someone from Ukraine (I think) asked him to provide Ukraine with Starlink and he answered "okay". Then he got to work and they moved or reprogrammed satellites (I think) and then provided many new dishes to Ukraine and added new features to prevent/reduce Russian jamming.

Are you suggesting it was a dangerous mistake for Musk to help Ukraine in this situation when he was uniquely positioned to provide the help? I really don't think helping people in their time of need is a dangerous game. There was only one right and honorable thing to do and Elon did it. And then when he tried to end the situation Ronan Farrow complained about he got roundly condemned.
 
I don't fully understand what you are saying. Elon provided the service for free. Months later he asked to get paid and he got condemned by many people with his request for payment being misinterpreted or spun into him making a threat or ultimatum. As the anti-Elon fervor kept growing he gave in and said "okay okay we will keep providing the service for free" (or words to that effect).

He did a good deed for free. Months later he asked that SpaceX get paid for what it was doing to stop losing money on it and he got condemned. That was the punishment for his good deed.


That was not the choice. The choice was either Musk provide internet access via Starlink or none would be provided. The US military was not ready, willing, or able to do it.

SpaceX has longstanding ties with the US military. I am certain some approval by the US military was given either before or after Elon said he would provide the service. They were well aware of the situation and could have objected if they wanted to. Something like this had to have the consent of the US government or military.


Elon has been clear about what his approach would be in the context of FSD. He said that even if we save a thousand lives and cause one death, the thousand lives saved will be ignored and we will be blamed for the death. But we should do it anyway because it's the right thing to do.

This Starlink in Ukraine thing started shortly after the invasion when someone from Ukraine (I think) asked him to provide Ukraine with Starlink and he answered "okay". Then he got to work and they moved or reprogrammed satellites (I think) and then provided many new dishes to Ukraine and added new features to prevent/reduce Russian jamming.

Are you suggesting it was a dangerous mistake for Musk to help Ukraine in this situation when he was uniquely positioned to provide the help? I really don't think helping people in their time of need is a dangerous game. There was only one right and honorable thing to do and Elon did it. And then when he tried to end the situation Ronan Farrow complained about he got roundly condemned.
As has been pointed out "no good deed goes unpunished".

However the real underlying issue is why Musk and/or SpaceX ever curtailed Starlink geographic coverage to only being unoccupied areas of Ukraine vs all legal territory of Ukraine in the initial 'free' gift.

There is some anecdotal evidence that this may have been a decision to reduce risk of operational Starlink kit getting used by Russians as they overan Ukraine locations in the early stages. It is unclear whether this was a SpaceX concern or a Ukraine gov concern, and if so that nuance can at some futuretime be explained. It did have the side effect of meaning that Ukraine behind-the-lines teams were continually struggling with comms. And ultimately it was this that caused the problem re coverage for the Crimean activities.

Shifting to US DoD contract has - thankfully - shifted these issues away from SpaceX/Starlink and Musk. It is clear that Musk is out of his depth in these matters, or at least out of his zone of competence and understanding.

(Once can debate international waters coverage).

(Thank you @nativework re it being a Swedish sat network now being used for the naval drones. I wondered how that was being done.)
 
This really disgusts me. How many children and other Ukrainian civilians have since died by missile attacks from the Russian navy? Elon's big ego, thinking he understands everything better than the actual victims of the invasion and, for that matter, the US authorities, means people die that did not have to. I love the cars and have loved being a stockholder but this is very close to a red line for me, if not already over it. Even those who do not agree should understand how many Europeans reason like me, not least in countries formerly occupied by Russia/Soviet, and how that will effect any Musk related brand, like Tesla, for years to come. What a stupid, stupid guy.
 
Grain spats


and

 
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This really disgusts me. How many children and other Ukrainian civilians have since died by missile attacks from the Russian navy? Elon's big ego, thinking he understands everything better than the actual victims of the invasion and, for that matter, the US authorities, means people die that did not have to. I love the cars and have loved being a stockholder but this is very close to a red line for me, if not already over it. Even those who do not agree should understand how many Europeans reason like me, not least in countries formerly occupied by Russia/Soviet, and how that will effect any Musk related brand, like Tesla, for years to come. What a stupid, stupid guy.
Strongly disagree. It is not up to Elon to openly pick a side in a global conflict. Let the US military do so, as a customer of SpaceX's Starlink, or the Ukranian military.

But saying Elon is the bad guy because he didn't choose to enter a war (making SpaceX a private military corporation, basically) is wrong and detracts from the real enemy in this conflict: Russia.
 
To all who replied to me:
1. I personally favor the fact that Musk provided Starlink to Ucraine.
Many people still think he did it for clout, and pile on this. No good deed etc.
2. The fact that he asked for money later made his detractor happy. Some said he was aiding Russia. I have not a clear opinion on this, because communication-wise was a disaster. Musk wrote several tweets about Crimea and Donbass and stepped into the geopolitical game with very visible tweets.
3. CNN reported "Elon Musk secretly ordered his engineers to turn off his company’s Starlink satellite communications network near the Crimean coast last year to disrupt a Ukrainian sneak attack on the Russian naval fleet, according to an excerpt adapted from Walter Isaacson’s new biography of the eccentric billionaire titled “Elon Musk.” This has been said several times. Allegedly, he even spoke with Putin.
This third point is obviously the most controversial. This has been seen as "treason" by many. I'm not the one to judge, but the fact that he proactively shut Starlink off is "matter of life and death". I don't want him to make these decision, even if in the end I agree with him.
 
3. CNN reported "Elon Musk secretly ordered his engineers to turn off his company’s Starlink satellite communications network near the Crimean coast last year to disrupt a Ukrainian sneak attack on the Russian naval fleet, according to an excerpt adapted from Walter Isaacson’s new biography of the eccentric billionaire titled “Elon Musk.” This has been said several times. Allegedly, he even spoke with Putin.
This third point is obviously the most controversial. This has been seen as "treason" by many. I'm not the one to judge, but the fact that he proactively shut Starlink off is "matter of life and death". I don't want him to make these decision, even if in the end I agree with him.
CNN are fake news. He never enabled Starlink in Russian controlled Crimea so saying that he ordered engineers to turn it off is not true. The Ukrainian military wanted him to enable it in a specific Russian controlled area so they could send drone ships with starlink in that region, when they had agreed not to use starlink as part of miltary equipment. Elon has helped Ukraine a lot, but no good dead goes unpunished by his detractors. That he still chooses to help them says a lot about him given how much *sugar* he has gotten for the help.
 
CNN are fake news. He never enabled Starlink in Russian controlled Crimea so saying that he ordered engineers to turn it off is not true. The Ukrainian military wanted him to enable it in a specific Russian controlled area so they could send drone ships with starlink in that region, when they had agreed not to use starlink as part of miltary equipment. Elon has helped Ukraine a lot, but no good dead goes unpunished by his detractors. That he still chooses to help them says a lot about him given how much *sugar* he has gotten for the help.
As far as I know, this has been reported by Isaacson too. Maybe I am mistaken?