EVNow
Well-Known Member
What "odd" things ? You mean those things where I say people of all skin color have the same rights ?
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Russia/Ukraine conflict
- Thread starter amolina
- Start date
Wow. I am speechless. Marx with the rest of that crappy group (Engels, etc) are responsible the philosophy that created the biggest massacre in human history. The biggest criminals in history were all followers of the "Communist manifesto". Mao, Lenin, Stalin, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Ceausescu, Kim Il-sung were all their descendants. And no, we are not arguing about this except if you have first hand experience of what communism meant. I do. World would have been a MUCH better place if those two would have never been born. Period, f'king period. Without those 2 idiots (Marx and Engels), we'd never had Lenin or Stalin or guess what, no Putin either. Not that the Romanovs would have necessarily be better (they were ruthless criminals as well), but I doubt that would have been worse. Half of Europe, most of Asia and a good chunk of Africa suffered because of those two for half of a century at least. There is no hell tough enough for them. And their followers above.
Ayn Rand inspiring oligarchs around the world ??? Really? I guess people should actually read her stuff before commenting.
The russians used to have an insult: некультурный (nekulturny). Back in the Soviet era was a pretty strong one. Something on the lines that you are not smart enough to realize that you're not smart.
And just to make it crystal clear. This is regarding that guy Amir (AmirAminiMD) and not EVNow. He seems so far left (read communist) that'd like for him to have grown behind the Iron Curtain v1.0 to see what his wished for society is in reality. Orwell's books, 1984 and Animal Farm were our reality for God sake.
Especially in todays' situation when Putin tries to bring back the USSR by invading another country, comments like this are insulting to the people that actually experienced the Marxist "Utopia"Read about 1956 and 1968 invasions. This is standard behavior for the USSR/Russia
Marx and Engel definitely didn't do the world any favors. But the world has had dictators before Marx. Marxism just gave would be dictators a new shiny package to sell to the masses. Putin is not a Marxist, he's more of the garden variety dictator and he wants to take Russia back to the 1600s more then the communist era. He's been influenced the last couple of years by a couple of nutters stuck deep in the past.
I have noted that Marxism really was a complete failure from the get go. Marx predicted that the workers would rise up in industrialized countries, overthrow the government and establish a worker's paradise. But that didn't happen in a single instance. Every country that went communist was not very well industrialized. A few industrialized a fair big during communism (like the USSR and China), but no fully industrialized country went that route. Some industrialized countries like East Germany were forced into it, but they didn't go voluntarily.
Ayn Rand has been weaponized by Putin to help feed political chaos in some countries, including the United States. In each country where he has sought to divide, he found existing fault lines in that country's politics and did everything he could to make them bigger.
Odd that that you still have not made a single critical comment of Russia. Russia...you know...that country that spent 4 years carpet bombing Aleppo. Aleppo? Heard of it? None on the Russian fossil fuel issue, the anti EV propaganda from Russia. Nothing about one country invading another and is in the process of turning a city into a lunar scape and...you post about "freedom fries" and marx not being russian even though they turned him into a religion. I find that sort of posting odd. Just out of curiosity.... what do you think about Russia? Have you been? I'm actually curious. How do you view Putin? evil psychopath hell bent on recreating a Russian empire or savvy world leader making earth better for humanity? You mention Rand and you don't mention who uses her. Ask Facebook and twitter who pays for Rand adverts and I pretty much guarantee most are from a Russian embassy account. Facebook is going to face a huge issue if forced to divulge and stop taking payments from Russia. Big issue for them.
FYI...my children aren't "white" so you know you can take that snarky line back home, that dog don't hunt.
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Here is Cringely's take:
Here’s why Putin won’t use nukes in Ukraine — Pass it on.
Snippet:
Most of the fallout of a Kiev attack, in fact, would land in Russia. The cities of Bryansk (427,000 population), Kaluuga (338,000), Kursk (409,000), Orel (324,000), and Tula (468,000) would all be hit, not by weapon strikes, but by fallout. That’s just under two million people exposed in those five cities, not counting folks in the countryside between.Two million is approximately the population of Kiev, or was before a lot of those people fled west.
We can estimate civilian deaths from radiation, from heat, from atmospheric over-pressure, but I’ll just jump here to the bottom line that about one million Russians would die from such a nuclear attack, both directly and through greatly increased cancer deaths in later years.
So a nuclear attack on Kiev would kill more Russians than Ukrainians.
I hope Ukraine is the new standard, and all countries subject to a hostile invasion, get the same help in terms of arms supply and trade sanctions.
There are however some complex issues to resolve, Israel/Palestine being one where I partially sympathise with both points of view.
I think the majority of Israelis/Palestinians would accept a fair peace deal, the problem is a small but vocal minority with extreme views.
This one conflict and oil are the cause of a lot of division and hostility in the middle east.
There are "just causes" worldwide where extreme bullies are beating up weaker opponents just because they can.
Draw a line on new invasions then try to settle old disputes by negotiation.
For trade sanctions a UN mandate is not required, al that is required is a group of like minded countries prepared to introduce sanctions.
This war has also shown that a highly motivated weaker opponent can put up a good fight with a well trained army, missiles and drones, a big budget and the latest tech isn't 100% necessary to mount a good defence. The tech just needs to match what the Ukrainians currently have.
To stand a good chance, the weaker opponent probably needs some arms supply from the US or China, but not the best gear the US or China have.
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_Redshift_
Member
I have some comments about Ayn Rand. I used to be a huge fan of her growing up, and I still like parts of her Philosophy.
However, the big problem with her thinking is that her assumption that the general public is smart enough to make good choices.
Nope. A big, fat nope. The average citizen is stupid and apathetic, sorry to be blunt. More so nowadays with the proliferation of the Internet and the the ‘smart’ phones.
With the advent of fake news, anything is possible to believe in. Anything. Critical thinking is endangered, and in some sections of the populace, extinct. This says more about us humans than the people manipulating us. If we were clever enough to realize fake from true, bias from objective decision making, we would have some hope. Large sections of even seemingly smart people easily follow their own inherent biases, and make ultimately bad choices for humanity in the long term.
Given that, incompetence, oligopolies, crony capitalism, etc. flourish.
In an ideal world though, Ayn Rand’s philosophy would work well, and I’d be a huge proponent.
Now Marx, I’ve never read. I don’t really find the concept of communism in any form, appealing.
However, the big problem with her thinking is that her assumption that the general public is smart enough to make good choices.
Nope. A big, fat nope. The average citizen is stupid and apathetic, sorry to be blunt. More so nowadays with the proliferation of the Internet and the the ‘smart’ phones.
With the advent of fake news, anything is possible to believe in. Anything. Critical thinking is endangered, and in some sections of the populace, extinct. This says more about us humans than the people manipulating us. If we were clever enough to realize fake from true, bias from objective decision making, we would have some hope. Large sections of even seemingly smart people easily follow their own inherent biases, and make ultimately bad choices for humanity in the long term.
Given that, incompetence, oligopolies, crony capitalism, etc. flourish.
In an ideal world though, Ayn Rand’s philosophy would work well, and I’d be a huge proponent.
Now Marx, I’ve never read. I don’t really find the concept of communism in any form, appealing.
Since it is tough being Russian and reading this thread I though I'd highlight something spectacular from Russia- Ivan Shishkin one of the great painters from Russia, he was in the school of realism and for a forester that is key. His forest paintings are so accurate that I could use them to teach. He was doing this before cameras, he had to setup in the field and draw and capture and he captured details that are often missing, say in the hudson school which is interesting but nothing useful in terms of understanding the interaction of man/environment because artistic license was often used. Nearly all Shishkins forest paintings captured the impact of man on the environment, the cow wallows, the grazed understory, the stumps, etc. Perhaps one will grab your fancy. I'm a fan, have a few prints. Glad the originals are in exhibits.
Not the biggest fan of Russia/USSR (pretty obvious from my posts in this thread), but an admirer of most of the Russian art. The classical Russian music is the best in my opinion(Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff, Prokofiev and a lot more); great painters too (Chagall, Shishkin, Bryullov et al), fantastic architecture, some decent literature (my opinion may be biased due to the fact that Russian literature, especially modern Soviet was part of education in my childhood and also due to the trauma of attempting to read Tolstoy's books). I still have on my bucket list a visit to Hermitage and to see the St. Basil. As long as the bear stays in his forest, no complaints. Unfortunately that was a problem for most of the post Renaissance era in Eastern-Central Europe. Either the Ottoman Empire or the Russian Empire and its successors...
Since it is tough being Russian and reading this thread I though I'd highlight something spectacular from Russia- Ivan Shishkin one of the great painters from Russia, he was in the school of realism and for a forester that is key. His forest paintings are so accurate that I could use them to teach. He was doing this before cameras, he had to setup in the field and draw and capture and he captured details that are often missing, say in the hudson school which is interesting but nothing useful in terms of understanding the interaction of man/environment because artistic license was often used. Nearly all Shishkins forest paintings captured the impact of man on the environment, the cow wallows, the grazed understory, the stumps, etc. Perhaps one will grab your fancy. I'm a fan, have a few prints. Glad the originals are in exhibits.
Unfortunately I don't think that would stop a sociopath like Putin. Look at the history of the Chernobyl accident. It took almost a week until the disaster had been officially acknowledged in the communist block, so it would not affect the may first celebrations. God only knows the total body-count that came out of it...
The eternal George Carlin said it best
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Tiger
Active Member
There is lot of evidence Why smart people are more likely to believe fake news. Proof is in the pudding - it's not like all smart people are atheists.
People simply believe anything they want to believe.
A few selected quotes:
Smart people can be ignorant at the same time.
A bit OT but I think a lot of people don’t know the difference between the words ”intelligent” and ”smart”.There is lot of evidence Why smart people are more likely to believe fake news. Proof is in the pudding - it's not like all smart people are atheists.
People simply believe anything they want to believe.
A few selected quotes:
Smart people can be ignorant at the same time.
Smart Is an acquired or obtained trait whereas, intelligence is a trait with which people are naturally born. Smartness is about using the obtained knowledge and applying it to practical situations. Intelligence is about gaining knowledge easily and swiftly.
I know lots of intelligent people who are not smart. And the problem with being intelligent is that often you can use your intelligence to win arguments even when you are wrong and thus don’t have good way of updating your beliefs. I also know smart people who are not intelligent, but are smart enough to know that and use it to their advantage. Instead they surround themselves by intelligent people and let them do the cognitive work for them and stay humble with their current set of beliefs.
Imo Elon Musk a good example of an intelligent person who is also smart.
Interestingly Rand's hero in Atlas Shrugged, John Galt, created and drove an electric car.
Tiger
Active Member
Good point, me for example, not a native speaker and didn't think I needed to look it up from the dictionary
Tiger
Active Member
But doesn't make him always right, it (being right lot of times) might cause him being overly confident (and thus wrong) even about topics he's not well versed in. Which is not smart, though.
There is lot of evidence Why smart people are more likely to believe fake news. Proof is in the pudding - it's not like all smart people are atheists.
People simply believe anything they want to believe.
A few selected quotes:
Smart people can be ignorant at the same time.
Confirmation bias. Instead of letting the evidence lead you to the best conclusion, you let your biases filter the information so you only see the data you want to see and come to the conclusion you wanted to come to.
I think I've mentioned before some people just want to be right: have someone tell them they are right
vs
those who want to get it right: come to the conclusion that fits all the valid evidence even if its a long ways away from where you thought it would go.
There are a lot more of the former than the latter in the world.
Hmmm, then there is POV of Larry Johnson, former CIA and US mil intel: Larry C. Johnson: 'The Ukrainian Army has been Defeated. What's left is mop-up'
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Another character that is far from trustworthy:
"Johnson is "best known for spreading a hoax... in 2008 that Michelle Obama had been videotaped using a slur against Caucasians""
"In 2013, Johnson falsely accused John Kerry of war crimes in Vietnam, alleging that Kerry had "raped some poor Vietnamese woman.""
"In March 2017, Andrew Napolitano spread the unfounded conspiracy theory that GCHQ, one of Britain's top intelligence agencies, had wiretapped Donald Trump during the 2016 presidential campaign on orders from President Obama.[1][22] Johnson was the source for Napolitano's claim."
Larry C. Johnson - Wikipedia
Why are you continually quoting such figures?
_Redshift_
Member
He has become arrogant. He thinks he can do no wrong, but some of his decisions are pure crap.
Are you referring to Elon above? Because the post you were responding to was. And if that’s the case, “…he thinks he can do no wrong…” has already been refuted by examples posted by others in the main investment thread. On this many would disagree with you including me.
A list of former military and intelligence people who helped QAnon with their conspiracy theories, this guy is on that list
Another article
Discredited Intel “Professionals” Push Lie About Russian Interference by Larry C Johnson
I would not be surprised if at least some of these people are actively collaborating with the Russians, the rest are what the intelligence community calls "convenient idiots".
One of the tactics of Russian psyops is to make it appear there are "reasonable" counter arguments on various topics. The US Constitution defines treason very narrowly (the country needs to be at war), but IMO these people are aiding a foreign power in their attempts to weaken the country. The Russians have done similar stunts to weaken other countries.
The Russians are terrible at fighting wars, but their spook services are pretty good.
I read a little bit of the article posted. The analysis is laughably bad. He makes some specious arguments that might sound plausible to someone who doesn't really understand military analysis, but to anyone who understands anything military, it's laughably bad.
The site itself is questionable. It was founded by Ron Unz
Ron Unz
The curious case of Ron Unz
There was a discussion among some of the Brits here a few days ago about how the Tories in the UK have been corrupted by the Russians. There still are Conservatives who are trying to do the right thing for the UK, but they are overshadowed by those who have been too friendly to Putin.
A similar thing has happened in the US. Despite what some people think of my political views, I do believe there is a place for healthy conservatism in the politics of democracies. When any foreign power with goals opposed to those of a country gain influence in that country's influence, the politicians and parties tainted by have become de facto traitors to the values of their country.
This phenomenon in the US is not completely limited to the right. There are a few Quislings on the left too, but they have a lot less influence. In 2016 Jill Stein was (I think) one of those convenient idiots who helped weaken Hillary Clinton's vote (though it didn't help that Clinton was not well liked from the start). Tulsi Gabbard also had a hot minute in the spotlight the last few weeks with her comments about the war.
For the most part the left rejects these people or ignores them. The right makes some of these people rock stars. That's where the danger lies. A nutter preaching their truth on the street corner and nobody paying attention are just harmless nutters. Everyone in the US has a 1st Amendment right to speak out politically, even if it is crazy. The danger is when the crazy starts getting traction.
The US has always had an "alternative facts" wing who believed some pretty crazy things. Historically they have been small, had no political power, and kept to themselves. This was not a right or left phenomenon, it was both. I've known some pretty nutty liberals, but they had no political power and their chances of getting any were infinitesimally small.
Nobody who understands what war is and has any kind of conscience wants to be at war. But someone without a conscience has started a quite significant war that could disrupt the entire world order. Their agents (whether unwitting or not) are working very hard to divide us so our response will be weakened.
The US has committed a lot of sins on the world stage. A lot of other players have too. But the "what about ism" needs to stop. What we have is the 21st century's Hitler who made a major mistake going to war with a broken army and now can't get out. The world needs to be united in making sure he pays the worst possible price for his hubris so this doesn't happen again.
Putin. Is. Losing. But we need to make sure he doesn't wiggle free. We have an opportunity to bring down or dramatically weaken one of the world's most potent dictators. And if we play our cards right we may be able to make the world a better place coming out of this.
In the 1940s the UK, the US, and the USSR made an alliance despite their differences. The US and UK were closer to one another than the USSR, but all three recognized that the imminent threat posed by the axis was the most important problem. We have reached one of those points again.
The figures inside and outside of Russia who have given flank support to Putin over the years all helped this happen. Ultimately responsibility falls on Putin's head, but all those others have a share of the blame too. We need to hold all those people accountable if we really want to make the world a better place post-Putin. Those people either have very poor values, or are easily turned to the darkness, or both. We don't need them anywhere near any kind of power.
