bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Another one from this series:
Does get a bit into the weeds, but that's what we are aiming for I suppose.
Does get a bit into the weeds, but that's what we are aiming for I suppose.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Russia/Ukraine conflict
- Thread starter amolina
- Start date
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
Marxism's target is capitalism, not democracy. In the ideal, Marx and Engels use of the word "dictatorship" is in the concept of a dictatorship of the proletariat. As you state, pure Marxism has never succeeded, as once the citizens revolt, the system molds itself to the leader of the revolution. The transition is unwieldy and the leader becomes a dictator.
Here's more, but this discussion is getting pretty far afield from the Ukraine war and Tesla:
Last edited:
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
R.I.P. Madeleine Albright, first female US Secretary of State. Thank-you for your service.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
EVNow
Well-Known Member
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
On November 23 2021, the warning of a Ukrainian Brigadier General was posted here in our thread, saying that Ukraine would be attacked by Russia in January or February. Little did we know how right this intelligence officer was.
Very often we do not understand the way Russians act and react.
This video from a intelligence colonel of Finland, although quite lengthy, gives great insight how the government machinery in Russia works.
Not only insightful for the war, but also why likely Tesla hasn't (and apart from the war shouldn't) put expansion in Russia high on its list of things-to-do.
Note: Unless you are Finnish, switch Subtitles in Settings to 'English'
Very often we do not understand the way Russians act and react.
This video from a intelligence colonel of Finland, although quite lengthy, gives great insight how the government machinery in Russia works.
Not only insightful for the war, but also why likely Tesla hasn't (and apart from the war shouldn't) put expansion in Russia high on its list of things-to-do.
Note: Unless you are Finnish, switch Subtitles in Settings to 'English'
Last edited:
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
It's late March right now. I would bet gas demand is dropping steadily day by day.
Got 6-8 months to get things in place to reduce demand for next winter.
It never succeeded but created more death than any other philosophical movement in the whole history of humanity by likely at least one order of magnitude. The only place marxism belongs is in the trash bin and maybe in a "Museum of Oddities and Errors of the Human Race". Any attempt to legitimize marxism is basically the same as finding justifications for Hitler's or Putin's crimes. There are plenty legit left-wing philosophies and movements that embrace democracy - liberalism and social-democracy come to mind. communism is not something to embrace if you know history in the least.
Academic musings about communism from someone that was 12 when communism fell in her home country shouldn't be justification for the most hideous experiment in human society. Enver Hoxha, local Albanian dictator for 40 years was a Stalinist of first order. While his body-count was lower than that of other communist dictators, it was purely due to Albania's smaller size, not to his murderous style. Over 25,000 "enemies of the people" were executed during this time. For reference Albania's population was ~1M in 40s and ~3M when communism fell. The reason for the growth? Abortions were illegal. Another model of communist paradise...
And I did read the article. For the TL;DR crowd here is the conclusion
"If we accept that capitalism is unjust and needs to be overcome, the idea of the dictatorship of the proletariat provides a plausible and attractive account of legitimacy in non-ideal circumstances. As I tried to suggest, Marx’s analysis of it ties in with a neutral, non-derogatory, use of the term, which goes back to a respected republican tradition and has had a long legacy in the history of political thought. It provides an interesting alternative to liberal and anarchist accounts of political obligation and a useful way of describing the authority claims of a just future state (the dictatorship of the proletariat) or criticising the injustice of the current one (the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie). It also helps us see better what is at stake in Marx’s claim about the withering away of the state and his intentionally elusive account of utopia in a communist society."
Abhorrent.
Last edited:
It is very likely after the latest economic disaster in Russia that it's going to be some time before Western companies dip their toes into that mess again. Having a big chunk of your business in a location subject to potential sanctions and nationalization by the Russian government is a massive red flag. It took decades for Russia to earn the trust they did and get Western companies to set up in Russia. Going to take some time for them to earn that trust again.
Tesla had a lot of reasons not to go to Russia previously and I'm not sure why people thought it was likely to begin with. Now they have more reason to avoid Russian than ever.
Ukraine on the other hand is likely to be very friendly to Tesla in the future.
Last edited:
EVNow
Well-Known Member
I was searching for reactions to this move by Putin on Twitter. Couple of things stood out
- a very large number of accounts tweeting that this is a “genius” move by Putin. So, obviously lot of alt-right / bots still tweeting.
- apparently about 80% of gas is for non domestic use. So, the reduction in gas needs will only move a bit down in summer. The world really needs to get off gas/oil to be not beholden to petro-dictators.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Yes, this has been debated by scholars for a long time. One of the things they note is that western countries greatly changed their labor practices as a result of Marxist ideology or perhaps in reaction to it. We can’t separate out Marx from all the improvement we have seen in labor conditions … from near slavery that Marx witnessed to social democracies of Western Europe today.
BTW, in India couple of states went Marxist. They have elected Marxist government for decades with mixed results. Marxists have also been part of governing coalition in various countries.
But coming back to Russia, definitely Western Europe labor todays enjoys better conditions than Russia or US.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Pinning the blame of what dictators did in the name of Marxism on Marx is like blaming Jesus for all the genocides European colonialists committed in the name of Christianity (or for that matter on Mohammed or Buddha or similar figures for the atrocities committed by the followers).
The Belarusian railroad workers have created a quagmire. The Russians have probably sent some of their railroad support units in to sort it out. Belarus is also trying to mobilize its army to invade, but their troops are less motivated than the Russians and more sympathetic to the Ukrainians, and their equipment is inferior to the Russians.
Even with the ability to move the rail heads into Ukraine, there is still the last mile of service by truck and their truck fleet has been hit hard. The troops NW of Kyiv appear to be very low on supply now. Feeding more troops in would just make the supply crisis worse.
Tariffs are a tax on your own people, not the seller. Imposing tariffs then giving the money back to the citizens sounds like a waste of money.
The US has had a few of these systems for evaluation and those might be in the mix for handover, but the bulk of the old Soviet hardware is in Eastern Europe.
I just saw that. His analysis is pretty good.
His second video does a better explanation that I could give that what we have seen thus far is the Russian A team (minus a few exotics). I've had this discussion with my partner. She has thought maybe Russia was holding back something and I've tried to explain it, but this did a better job than I did.
I'll check out the third later today.
I was sloppy in my terms. The 20th century was a battle of economic systems and political systems. Communists did gain some ground here and there in democracies, but their political gains were short lived. @EVNow just pointed out (while I'm writing this), Marxism did have some impacts within democracies, but it was in the name of democratic socialism for the most part.
All the countries that went full communist also went down the dictatorship rabbit hole too, for the reasons you mention.
Back in the late 1970s series Connection James Burke talked about how Darwin's theory was misapplied to social systems in three different ways.
In America it was applied by the robber barons to justify their control over everything. The claim was natural selection in an economic and social system would lead to the "best" building monopolies and controlling everything and that was the natural order.
In Germany they had the argument that the Aryan "race" was superior to all others and because of that it would dominate the world because the best always comes out on top.
Marx also argued that the natural order for any industrialized society was for the workers to rise up and overthrow the capitalists and create a worker's paradise. He argued that all industrialized societies would move in that direction because of social Darwinism. Lenin became quite a fan of this and took it to Russia with him during the Revolution.
It's all based on a flawed assumption that human social systems follow the same evolutionary laws as biology.
Marx was also quite the leech. He was only able to write his works because he sponged off a few wealthy patrons.
The US is also ramping up LNG exports. When the war started the US promised more LNG to Europe to replace Russian gas. It means higher natural gas prices in the US and bigger profits for US oil and gas companies, but it will help Europe disconnect from Russian NG.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
But this is the important thing all these guys miss or won’t talk about.
Putin is the ideal “strong man” that a lot of authoritarian leaders in other countries aspire to be. They look pro-Russian because they genuinely like Putin, like his ultra-right wing ideology and want to emulate him.
Modi, Bolsonaro, an important US politician whose name can’t be mentioned all fall in this group. They are not “Russian assets” like some claim - more like Putin fans. Alt-right propaganda in all these countries frequently use Putin’s image as approving of local leaders.
You can’t deal with Putin (esp his propoganda) without dealing with alt-right in all these countries.
And, perhaps China would learn that the world would not tolerate similar behavior!
If China did something similar we'd either have to suck it up or we'd have a massive recession.
China is simply too integrated into the global economy to cut off. Russia has a pretty good chunk of sales of some commodities. Huge portions of our manufacturing and technology are homed in China with no great alternatives.
I'm sure this is quite informative to the Chinese leaders... but they know it couldn't play out the same.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Odd thing is you wrote this comment instead of checking my tweets with thousands of tweets about Putin in the last decade, like this one below.
McConnel’s wife isn’t white either.
Anyway, I’m sure you can show me all your comments that don’t involve Russian invasion, right ?
adiggs
Well-Known Member
True enough - it wouldn't play the same (sanctioning China to isolate it).
But it also doesn't need to. If companies shift some of their sourcing to other countries and/or started working towards redundancy in their supply chain with more local companies, that'll put headwinds into China's economy. Big enough headwinds creates a recession, and pretty big motivation on China's part to not pursue policies that cause the rest of the world to go find alternatives to doing business with China.
Especially if the drive to find alternatives turns into a multi-year or multi-decade decision / effort. I think this is the real problem Russia faces, even if they decided today to stop the invasion and withdraw, they have still lost a lot of trust that needed decades to build.
