S100d: Reduced Supercharging Speed With 2019.12.1

[MartinPF]

Since the update to 2019.12.1 I'm seeing significantly reduced SuC charge rates on my 2017 S P100D.

Before the update, I'd have > 110kW up to 52% and hit 100kw at about 62%. Sustained peak around 116 kW before it starts going down.
After the update, charge rate starts going down at 47% and hits 100kW around 53% with a sustained peak of about 113kW.

I've just completed a round trip of about 1000 miles for the third time and noticed my charging stops were a bit longer this time. Anyone else seeing a similar change?
BTW, this is in Europe, so the increased max. charge rate for V2 Supercahrgers never made it here.

 

[Lasttoy]

Yes, yes, yes. My car has experienced it . Yesterday it started at 70kw, I was only one on my number. In Virginia last month I could only charge at 47kw, I called Tesla 4 times on my trip, got no satisfactory answer.
Y normal start rate is about 115kw if I'm very low, but used to be over 100 all the time.

 

[Gixx1300R]

I also reported slow charging at home and at superchargers. the new update was the cause

 

[2017S&XLftBhnd]

I was just looking to see if anyone else saw this, my 2017 S75, non dual motor Supercharger speed seems to peak out at a max of 80kw no matter what my start charge. Though it’s been happening for a few months at least idk when it started.

Our 2017 X doesn’t have the issue and charges over 100kw. Does mileage have anything to do with charge rates at Superchargers? Just over 2 years old and at ~73,000 miles.

 

[Lasttoy]

There are so many post about this subject under different titles.
This is not us or our cars. I have charged at gen 1, gen 2, and brand new gen3. Same affect.
This is v9. The only way I see to get attention is to call the 877 798 3752 every single time it happens. If they get a thousand calls, maybe just maybe we can get their attention.

 

[Gixx1300R]

 

[sorka]

I just started supercharging in Gustine a few minutes ago at 116KW on my P85DL....but then again I'm still on v8 so yea, not a car thing but a software thing.

 

[Kuhz]

On the contrary my 75D has seen a significant bump in SC rate. From 95kw Max to 110kw. I don’t supercharge often though.

 

[analRaviOli]

I just started supercharging in Gustine a few minutes ago at 116KW on my P85DL....but then again I'm still on v8 so yea, not a car thing but a software thing.

How are you on V8? Im assuming you did not upgrade which i understand, im just shocked that nobody else did it to you on purpose

 

[sorka]

How are you on V8? Im assuming you did not upgrade which i understand, im just shocked that nobody else did it to you on purpose

I refused the staged update for 302 days. When it disappeared, which it will do when they have a different update they want to install as well, the whole reduced range thread was blowing up. Realizing that I was about to get an update downloaded and forced on me without allowing me to reject it this time, I connected the car to a null hotspot. ie. a verizon hotspot without a sim.

Whenever the car is parked, it's wifi is connected to a hotspot that goes nowhere and the car appears to not be smart enough to disconnect...thank goodness.

I'm assuming that the car won't download and stage software while I'm actually driving it........I know big assumption but so far no new update.

The downside of course is I can no longer use the app remotely.....well sort of. I use the app every now and then to spot check that the car hasn't decided to reconnect via LTE when I'm away from it.Sad, huh?

This is a short term solution until I can get the car rooted. I've reached out to the usual suspects with no response, I'm getting ready to take it on myself.

 

[analRaviOli]

I refused the staged update for 302 days. When it disappeared, which it will do when they have a different update they want to install as well, the whole reduced range thread was blowing up. Realizing that I was about to get an update downloaded and forced on me without allowing me to reject it this time, I connected the car to a null hotspot. ie. a verizon hotspot without a sim.

Whenever the car is parked, it's wifi is connected to a hotspot that goes nowhere and the car appears to not be smart enough to disconnect...thank goodness.

I'm assuming that the car won't download and stage software while I'm actually driving it........I know big assumption but so far no new update.

The downside of course is I can no longer use the app remotely.....well sort of. I use the app every now and then to spot check that the car hasn't decided to reconnect via LTE when I'm away from it.Sad, huh?

This is a short term solution until I can get the car rooted. I've reached out to the usual suspects with no response, I'm getting ready to take it on myself.

Well congrats on the deferring but i think eventually some how they are gonna force that. Either the app is going to look for V9 or hopefully some idiot at the SC doesn't push it without your aproval. Either way, good job!

 

[Big Earl]

I was just looking to see if anyone else saw this, my 2017 S75, non dual motor Supercharger speed seems to peak out at a max of 80kw no matter what my start charge. Though it’s been happening for a few months at least idk when it started.

Our 2017 X doesn’t have the issue and charges over 100kw. Does mileage have anything to do with charge rates at Superchargers? Just over 2 years old and at ~73,000 miles.

How frequently do you supercharge and how many miles are on your vehicle? Per a recent thread about supercharger speeds, the 75 kWh pack will start to throttle its charging speeds after a certain amount of kWhs added via DC fast charging (CHAdeMO or supercharging). According to Tesla, the limit goes as follows:

"The DC charge limiting is set to start at 2,625 kWh and reaches maximum derating at 13,125 kWh."

So that means with about 8,000 supercharged miles, it will begin charging more slowly. By about 40,000 supercharged miles, it won't get any slower.

 

[iqless]

Good job Tesla. Now people are legitimately scared of your 'over the air updates'

 

[MartinPF]

There are so many post about this subject under different titles.
This is not us or our cars. I have charged at gen 1, gen 2, and brand new gen3. Same affect.
This is v9. The only way I see to get attention is to call the 877 798 3752 every single time it happens. If they get a thousand calls, maybe just maybe we can get their attention.

Unfortunately, there's also a whole bunch of different reasons for varying charge rates,
The effect I'm trying to verify / confirm is that 2019.20.1 seems to have implemented a new charging strategy where the peak rate is mostly the same as before but peak rate is not sustained as long as before,
Let me throw in another diagram to illustrate the issue. Yello lines are for charges since the upgrade to 2019.20.1, bluie lines for charges before the upgrade.
I've included only charges where I didn't have to share a charger pair and where I arrived at the charger with a warm battery.

Given the time of the update and the information we got from tesla about updates to the BMS following a car fire (see https://electrek.co/2019/05/15/tesla-fiire-update-battery-software/) I'd say this is the update mentioned in the article and that the earlier reduction in charge rate puts less stress on the battery.
So, from Tesla's popint of view this change is a feature, not a bug.

 

[MartinPF]

On the contrary my 75D has seen a significant bump in SC rate. From 95kw Max to 110kw. I don’t supercharge often though.

The change I'm seeing is an earlier reduction of peak charge rate that before.
From the Release notes it looks like US/Canada got an increase in peak charge rate at pretty much the same time. I'd be really interested to see charge rate diagram(s) before/after to see how peak rate / sustained peak rate actually changed for different models / batteries.

 

[MartinPF]

Good job Tesla. Now people are legitimately scared of your 'over the air updates'

That's definitely the case for Users in Europe, particularly for this years updates:

• Autopilot limited (max rate of turn reduced)
• lane change limited, will only attempt lane change for five seconds after touching the turn signal.
• Supercharger peak rate reduced earlier

My car used to handle some curvy highways perfectly and now bails out requiring me to take over.

I wonder what they're going to nerf next.

 

[Lasttoy]

No wonder my antique is not like it used to be on v9. Oh well have to adjust.
I'm using a lot more miles after new motor was installed in March.

 

[2017S&XLftBhnd]

How frequently do you supercharge and how many miles are on your vehicle? Per a recent thread about supercharger speeds, the 75 kWh pack will start to throttle its charging speeds after a certain amount of kWhs added via DC fast charging (CHAdeMO or supercharging). According to Tesla, the limit goes as follows:

"The DC charge limiting is set to start at 2,625 kWh and reaches maximum derating at 13,125 kWh."

So that means with about 8,000 supercharged miles, it will begin charging more slowly. By about 40,000 supercharged miles, it won't get any slower.

View attachment 423499

How frequently do you supercharge and how many miles are on your vehicle? Per a recent thread about supercharger speeds, the 75 kWh pack will start to throttle its charging speeds after a certain amount of kWhs added via DC fast charging (CHAdeMO or supercharging). According to Tesla, the limit goes as follows:

"The DC charge limiting is set to start at 2,625 kWh and reaches maximum derating at 13,125 kWh."

So that means with about 8,000 supercharged miles, it will begin charging more slowly. By about 40,000 supercharged miles, it won't get any slower.

View attachment 423499

I have 72,000 miles and Supercharging accounts for probably 65,000. So I hit those numbers a long time ago. The limit started in the past month or two so in the last 5,000 miles.

 

[smiley04]

The change I'm seeing is an earlier reduction of peak charge rate that before.
From the Release notes it looks like US/Canada got an increase in peak charge rate at pretty much the same time. I'd be really interested to see charge rate diagram(s) before/after to see how peak rate / sustained peak rate actually changed for different models / batteries.

You can find updated curves on abetterroutplanner.com/blog.

 

[smiley04]

Unfortunately, there's also a whole bunch of different reasons for varying charge rates,
The effect I'm trying to verify / confirm is that 2019.20.1 seems to have implemented a new charging strategy where the peak rate is mostly the same as before but peak rate is not sustained as long as before,
Let me throw in another diagram to illustrate the issue. Yello lines are for charges since the upgrade to 2019.20.1, bluie lines for charges before the upgrade.
I've included only charges where I didn't have to share a charger pair and where I arrived at the charger with a warm battery.
View attachment 423679
Given the time of the update and the information we got from tesla about updates to the BMS following a car fire (see https://electrek.co/2019/05/15/tesla-fiire-update-battery-software/) I'd say this is the update mentioned in the article and that the earlier reduction in charge rate puts less stress on the battery.
So, from Tesla's popint of view this change is a feature, not a bug.

It appears that a new reduced charging curve for 100 kWh battery matches fairly closely one for 75 kWh. I suspect that BMS was mis-configured when flushing new BMS firmware to the vehicle.