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S40 Max range change with SW 6.2 (2.4.239)?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by santana338, Jun 15, 2015.

  1. santana338

    santana338 Member

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    I got the 2.4.239 update on 6/5. I have been getting a rated range of 135 miles for the last 6 months or so. I just notice that I am only getting 130 miles of range now. Even when I check just after charging has completed.

    We know that Tesla has modified the algorithm for S40 charging in the past. I don't know if this is a real change to my battery, a change to the amount of reserve in the battery, or just an accidental software change.

    Is anyone else with an S40 seeing this change?
     
  2. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    Dude you've got a 20 kW (50%) buffer. You don't need to worry about degradation! It has to be all software. Would be kind of funny if Tesla chose to emulate degradation in software for the "40s" that didn't unlock :) But cruel too!
     
  3. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    What's the cost to "software up" to the 60? I forgot they had a 40 at one point!

    How time flies!

    Yea, with a physical 60 pack, you should only ever see full use of the 40.
     
  4. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how many S40's were delivered. A few dozen? Tesla should just unlock the entire 60kWh battery in those cars, for free, as a goodwill gesture.
     
  5. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    They will, after a bit more time has passed, so that people who chose and paid for the 60, but was considering the 40, don't feel suckered.
     
  6. santana338

    santana338 Member

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    It's $10K to upgrade. I am pretty sure this is just a SW change. This happened before when they were adjusting the range algorithms (the 40's got shorted), but it was fixed in a subsequent release.

    From the changelog:

    Improved Range Calculations
    Range calculations have been adjusted and will generally appear higher (empirical data suggests c. 10 extra miles at 90% charge), especially for 40kWh cars.
     
  7. Sacrament055

    Sacrament055 Member

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    Yes, I've noticed similar lower rated range with the latest update. I had been seeing 135 to 138 range and I'm seeing 131 to 133 now.
     
  8. fluxemag

    fluxemag Member

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    Same exactly. 135 down to 130. But in reality it's more like 110, even driving conservatively. I ran it down to zero miles and the trip counter said I only used just over 30kWh.

    I believe the upgrade is $11k now, which if we're honest is never going to happen. However, if they were to unlock it as a 60 for free, I'd pay the $2500 for supercharging.
     
  9. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    Maybe they could bundle the upgrade and sell it as a package. $8,000 for 60kWh & Super Charging in one.

    The costs are 'sunk' at this point... the cars have been built and left the factory. The super chargers have been built.

    $8k for 20 more kWh for software (so like $50 cost per car?) and enableing super charging... it's win/ win. They get to make $8k they were not expecting, and people get more range and super charging.
     
  10. Brandonm

    Brandonm Member

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    Yeah, I'm seeing the same exact thing. I put it on the list for service to look at my 25k mile appointment in a couple weeks
     
  11. santana338

    santana338 Member

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    Good idea. I'll put it on my list too. Maybe if enough of us squawk about it they will fix it (again).

    I'd buy an upgrade if they brought the price down. I don't really need it, but it would be fun to take longer trips.
     
  12. wk057

    wk057 Senior Tinkerer

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    As a somewhat random thought, I would be kind of mad if I ran out of power in a 40 knowing there is 20 kWh sitting there that I couldn't use... :(
     
  13. dragyoul

    dragyoul Member

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    Noticed the exact same behavior of my S40 when I upgraded to 2.4.239 June 7th. My rated range dropped from 140 to 133 miles.

    With this 20 kWh buffer we have, I can't believe this is degradation. I feel like Tesla is artificially dropping my range to convince me to purchase the whole battery!

    I wonder if Tesla figured out that 40kWh battery also needs balancing. Normally, it is done when battery is 100% ... but we will never reach this charge level!!
     
  14. Papafox

    Papafox Active Member

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    #14 Papafox, Jul 12, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2015
    Add me to the list of 40kwh owners who saw a drop from about 135 epa miles to about 130 epa miles after the software update. The problem is that for many of us, the upgrade to a 60 battery on a car that is two years old doesn't really make sense at $11,000. Add $2500 for supercharging and buying a new 70D makes a bit more sense than upgrading your 40 (which is what I did for my mainland driving). On the other hand, trading in a 40 that suits my present needs doesn't work either. Thus, I am a two Tesla owner for the moment.

    As our 40 cars get older, the value we receive from upgrading to 60kwh also decreases, both because of the years of service we've already missed and the reduced number of years ahead. Consider that a Tesla battery can typically be counted on to last 10 years and the original price of the upgrade from 40 to 60 was $10,000. It follows, then that the value of the upgrade decreases approximately $1000 a year because in the tenth year there would be little value in doing the upgrade then. A battery replacement would be more appropriate. In order for Tesla to attract 40 owners to upgrade to 60kwh, the rational pricing would be something along the lines of a decreased cost of $1,000 per year, with some floor (maybe $3000) that the company does not drop below. I think I'd likely need a pricing offer along these lines to spring for an upgrade.
     
  15. spaceballs

    spaceballs Member

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    I understood what your saying, but one interesting note is since the 40 pack is actually a 60 pack you should see pretty much no loss of range for that entire time in that 10 years, and likely will exceed that before you see any range loss.
     
  16. Papafox

    Papafox Active Member

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    Listening to a discussion of Tesla battery range degradation at TMC Connect this past weekend, the presenter showed a typical shallow degradation rate for range for quite some time, but mentioned that for Lithium Ion batteries, they reach a point in their lives where range will eventually drop quite dramatically. At that point, replacement batteries should cost Tesla $100 per kwh to produce and buying a replacement battery makes far more sense than upgrading to the 60.

    While the 40 will theoretically maintain its current charging level for years to come, Tesla has apparently introduced an artificial degradation of battery life into the equation. This is problematic to those of us who have been very careful with how we treat our batteries. We'll be looking carefully to see what the company does with the next software upgrade.
     
  17. dragyoul

    dragyoul Member

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    No, are you kidding me?! Did they really spoke about artificial degradation?? Can't believe it! Tesla sold me this S40 saying it would experience a REDUCED rate of degradation!! Didn't you also hear that from TM when you purchased it ?

    I keep the car charged at 50% to take care of the battery and charge it often to avoid depleting it under 20% ... I understand that I'm simply wasting my time!
     
  18. spaceballs

    spaceballs Member

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    I believe this wouldn't be true as that be over the grey area in my view.
     
  19. deonb

    deonb Active Member

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    That's not possible... The day when it became publically known (which include by store employees) that the S40 would be carrying a 60kWh battery, was simultaneously the end of the 40 line. Nobody who ordered a 40 placed that order with the knowledge that they'd be getting a 60 instead.


    This is not really artificial 'degradation'. The 40 is behaving the exact same way a 60 would behave if you continuously charge it up to 66% each day.

    At that low a SOC the algorithm drifts quite a bit and it requires a 100% charge (on all cars) to reset it so that the car knows how much capacity the battery has. (There may or may also not be balancing taking place at the end of the range).

    Without that, the car effectively has to guess how much capacity the batteries has available. It does this by keeping track of charges & voltage, but it can only be so accurate. Imagine filling a cup 66% of the way full of water every day and draining some of it again. Every day some unknown amount of dirt accumulates and stays in the bottom of the cup. You can measure how much water you're letting in and letting out, and you can weigh the cup, but you can't measure how much dirt has accumulated. How accurate will you be in hitting that 66% mark after 2 years? Not very. HOWEVER, if I allow you to fill the cup all the way and drain it once - voila, you immediately know where the 66% mark is now and you can start filling / draining it correctly again until the dirt factor becomes significant again.

    I think Tesla should allow each 40 owner to do a 100% charge once a year, or do this at a service center overnight during the annual service.
     
  20. Chris TX

    Chris TX Active Member

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    If an S40 gets traded in for a newer model, I wonder if Tesla CPOs it as an S60 with Supercharging. I guess the only way to tell would be to check the VINs of S60s in the CPO page.
     

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