Salvage title non-Tesla EV's and supercharging....

[stopcrazypp]

Having crap loads of money and using it to pay for high priced lawyers doesn't mean what you are doing is not illegal, it just means your opponent gave up / ran out of money. That is why a push from an organized group (right to repair advocacy groups) would be more effective than an individual going it alone. Being part of a "protected class" just means you already have that organized group fighting for you... not that you have a better legal case.

That's not what protected class means at all. I see no pathway to a vehicle title status ever being considered a protected class. Protected classes are things like race, gender, age, disability.

Tesla wants that government handout just as bad as any other company, if the push was made to allow salvage Teslas access to the Supercharger network as a condition of receiving the government $$$, they would do the math and see that they would gain a hell of a lot more in corporate welfare from the government than they gain in charging money to recertify salvage Teslas... they would not pass up the corporate welfare over this issue, so the Tesla owners wanting to maintain the walled garden would be disappointed.

Not true at all. Tesla recently just dropped a huge California government funded project because they didn't want to deal with the requirements. You think Tesla won't readily drop a project if it threatens things beyond just that project?

If you think that a magikdoc destroying a Porsche or Audi EV would make less headlines than a Tesla you are just being silly now. This is never going to happen BTW, see my "who wants to be a millionaire" question above.

It'll certainly be less than if it was a Tesla, especially if the manufacturer involved advertised widely in the media. And it gives shared responsibility to the other manufacturer, while if it was a Tesla, it'll be fully Tesla's fault.

It is a spurious argument designed to distract from the real reason Tesla doesn't want salvage title Tesla's to be able to use the Supercharger network... they want to discourage repair of salvage Teslas to encourage sales of NEW Teslas.

Later,

Keith

Regardless of the justification you want to believe in, point is that Magic Dock not being able to block non-Tesla salvage doesn't change it.

 

[GasNah]

so will Tesla do the CCS retrofit on a salvaged vehicle that doesn't have CCS enabled? I have seen a Tesla Y salvaged with SC disabled and CCS enabled and can fast charged a third party stations.

 

[buckets0fun]

so will Tesla do the CCS retrofit on a salvaged vehicle that doesn't have CCS enabled? I have seen a Tesla Y salvaged with SC disabled and CCS enabled and can fast charged a third party stations.

Yes. You’ll likely need to pay for the HV inspection, but at that point why not spend a little less than the retrofit and have supercharging turned back on by tesla?

 

[Fourdoor]

That's not what protected class means at all. I see no pathway to a vehicle title status ever being considered a protected class. Protected classes are things like race, gender, age, disability.

Not true at all. Tesla recently just dropped a huge California government funded project because they didn't want to deal with the requirements. You think Tesla won't readily drop a project if it threatens things beyond just that project?

It'll certainly be less than if it was a Tesla, especially if the manufacturer involved advertised widely in the media. And it gives shared responsibility to the other manufacturer, while if it was a Tesla, it'll be fully Tesla's fault.

Regardless of the justification you want to believe in, point is that Magic Dock not being able to block non-Tesla salvage doesn't change it.

Did you really think I was saying that salvage title is a protected class? Reading comprehension must be at an all time low. I said that being a member of a protected class gives you automatic clout because you have a group / organization backing you. If you want to get any consideration in a legal scuffle it helps to have clout / backing. Going it alone against any large corporation is not a winning strategy and a going through a right to repair organization is a better path to follow.

Do you think Magic Dock would exist if there wasn't a huge government windfall on the horizon? I guess it must be a coincidence.

You think a burned up Audi at a Supercharger would be no big deal, but a burned up salvage title Tesla would be. Whatever.

Magic Dock not blocking salvage title non-Tesla cars but Tesla blocking salvage title Tesla cars makes sense to you... enough said.

Keith

 

[stopcrazypp]

Did you really think I was saying that salvage title is a protected class? Reading comprehension must be at an all time low. I said that being a member of a protected class gives you automatic clout because you have a group / organization backing you. If you want to get any consideration in a legal scuffle it helps to have clout / backing. Going it alone against any large corporation is not a winning strategy and a going through a right to repair organization is a better path to follow.

The only pathway your comment suggests to title status getting Tesla to be forced to allow salvage cars is via being classified as a protected class. Protected classes are given special treatment not because of clout, but because of the 14th amendment. Right to repair has nothing to do with it.

There is no "clout" pathway that will get Tesla to be forced to allow supercharger access to salvage cars. There needs to be a legal framework first, which does not exist for salvage cars. Salvage titled vehicles being treated as second class extends to plenty of businesses (car manufacturers voiding warranties, insurance companies offering limited or refusing to supply coverage, shops that refuse to work on them) and government (title being "branded"), and I don't see a legal way that would change otherwise.

Again the guiding principle is businesses are allowed to refuse doing business for practically any reason other than discriminating against a protected class.

Do you think Magic Dock would exist if there wasn't a huge government windfall on the horizon? I guess it must be a coincidence.

That doesn't matter. The point is Tesla has shown they are willing to drop charging infrastructure deals worth millions simply because they found the requirements were a bit cumbersome. That shows certainly they would be willing to drop any possible deals related to Magic Dock if it meant they would be forced to make policy changes that would affect them nationwide. Also so far there is zero evidence they have gotten government money for any of their Magic Dock installations (if you do have sources for that, please post it, as other discussions are very curious what kind of requirements would be part of it). Keep in mind they opened up CCS access in Europe even in absence of government funding.

You think a burned up Audi at a Supercharger would be no big deal, but a burned up salvage title Tesla would be. Whatever.

Nope, not what I am saying. I'm saying it would be WAY LESS of a deal than if a Tesla burned up. And as others pointed out, a Tesla doesn't have a way to detect salvage status anyways via CCS, so they can reasonably say it's not possible to prevent it.

Magic Dock not blocking salvage title non-Tesla cars but Tesla blocking salvage title Tesla cars makes sense to you... enough said.

Keith

I already described reasons why it makes complete sense:
1) a Tesla burning up at a supercharger station is way worse in negative PR than a non-Tesla doing so. It was likely the primary reason to have the policy in the first place
2) CCS does not pass through the VIN, so Tesla would have no practical way to even do a salvage check if they wanted to.
3) Your own suggested reason that they want to make salvage Teslas less attractive, still applies in this case. That they can't block non-Teslas doesn't change that either.

You certainly disagree, but those are my main points.

 

[phemark]

2) CCS does not pass through the VIN, so Tesla would have no practical way to even do a salvage check if they wanted to.
3) Your own suggested reason that they want to make salvage Teslas less attractive, still applies in this case. That they can't block non-Teslas doesn't change that either.

Hey, a bit on these.

I have a US Salvage MS 2020, with retrofitted Type2 port, and CCS board retrofit, so I need to use Type2-CCS adapter to charge on DC chargers.

However, I am not allowed to charge at Tesla SC. I use Tesla app, select a charging station which allows non-Teslas, select a charging point, and everything works fine until then - app is showing that it is waiting for a non-Tesla to be plugged in. However, as soon as I plug into my Tesla, using Type2-CCS adapter, it recognises that I am US Salvage, and says that DC charging is disabled. So some sort of identifieble information is being passed via this adapter, at least in Europe.

Any idea how to hide it are welcome, so I could pay and charge as non-Tesla

(However, there are plenty of other DC chargers in Europe that I can use, so not a big of a deal in the end, but would be nice to have that option).

 

[stopcrazypp]

Hey, a bit on these.

I have a US Salvage MS 2020, with retrofitted Type2 port, and CCS board retrofit, so I need to use Type2-CCS adapter to charge on DC chargers.

However, I am not allowed to charge at Tesla SC. I use Tesla app, select a charging station which allows non-Teslas, select a charging point, and everything works fine until then - app is showing that it is waiting for a non-Tesla to be plugged in. However, as soon as I plug into my Tesla, using Type2-CCS adapter, it recognises that I am US Salvage, and says that DC charging is disabled. So some sort of identifieble information is being passed via this adapter, at least in Europe.

Any idea how to hide it are welcome, so I could pay and charge as non-Tesla

(However, there are plenty of other DC chargers in Europe that I can use, so not a big of a deal in the end, but would be nice to have that option).

There are a couple possible scenarios:
1) Your car already had all DC charging disabled (this was how it was done for Model S).
2) Having a CCS2 connector is irrelevant to EU charging because Tesla uses that connector by default even for Tesla charging. So Tesla still does the regular Tesla supercharger handshake.
3) A car side flag was set via OTA to disable supercharging already. That was how Tesla had been doing things for a while.

You can eliminate number 1 by seeing if the car can DC charge at a non-Tesla charger.

If you look up thread, people were speculating if Tesla still tries regular supercharger handshake first even if you activate the supercharger via the non-Tesla option. If that is the case, then a Tesla to CCS1 to MagicDock would make no difference to salvage car, even assuming a car side flag was not set already.

 

[phemark]

There are a couple possible scenarios:
1) Your car already had all DC charging disabled (this was how it was done for Model S).
2) Having a CCS2 connector is irrelevant to EU charging because Tesla uses that connector by default even for Tesla charging. So Tesla still does the regular Tesla supercharger handshake.
3) A car side flag was set via OTA to disable supercharging already. That was how Tesla had been doing things for a while.

You can eliminate number 1 by seeing if the car can DC charge at a non-Tesla charger.

If you look up thread, people were speculating if Tesla still tries regular supercharger handshake first even if you activate the supercharger via the non-Tesla option. If that is the case, then a Tesla to CCS1 to MagicDock would make no difference to salvage car, even assuming a car side flag was not set already.

Yes, Tesla probably still does a regular handshake to see that I am a "Salvage Tesla".

I am just wondering, is there a way to prevent that, so that Tesla would not recognize me, and I would charge as "another EV", via app?


P.S. As my Tesla is from US, EU services do not do high voltage test on those - they said that they only do that for EU Salvages, not US ones.