The point is that a private business can legally discriminate on any non-protected basis. They could exclude red cars, they could exclude cars with a lifted suspension. They can exclude cars with salvage/rebuilt titles...
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Salvage title non-Tesla EV's and supercharging....
- Thread starter Fourdoor
- Start date
This is most certainly a violation of right-to-repair law.
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They aren't preventing you from repairing anything. They are preventing you from using a service that they offer, to a limited set of people/vehicles. (And most states don't even have a right-to-repair law.)
It is like EVgo restricts people to using adapters provided by the OEM. (It is against their TOS for you to use a Lectron CCS to Tesla adapter on their charging network, even though it should work just fine.) They just aren't implementing a technical restriction, it is in their TOS. So it is up to you to comply with the TOS. (I think they could technically charge you with theft of services, as you would have violated the agreement you had with them, so you had no legal basis to use their charger.)
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Tesla prevents third-parties from doing safety checks that Tesla requires to regain access to Supercharger.
Again, that isn't a repair. The third-party can do the repairs, but using the Supercharger network requires a Tesla certification.
Third-party mechanics should be able to run safety tests and turn Supercharger access back on.
Tesla is most certainly violating the right-to-repair law.
So, you should move to a state that has passed that law, Massachusetts is the only one I am aware of, and sue Tesla.
Though it looks like New York may have passed one, but I see it has some exclusions:
Oh wait, the New York law excludes motor vehicles altogether, so scratch that.
Im not sure how "right to repair' is being equated to a third party legally turning on access to a charging network, but people have made stranger leaps here.
Which one of those organizations is Tesla a member of? (As far as I can tell Tesla is not a member of any of them, so anything they agree to would not apply to Tesla.)
I guess we are going to have to wait until individual states pass their own right-to-repair laws or a national one gets passed.
It shouldn't be long now.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Hate to break it to you, but that is irrelevant to whether Tesla can ban salvage cars at superchargers. For example, practically every manufacturer voids your warranty if your car is salvage. Right-to-repair doesn't change that.
And as it relates to right-to-repair, that has nothing to do with safety inspections. For example, Massachusetts has right-to-repair, but you still have to go to a licensed inspection station to do your annual inspections:
Basic Inspection Information — Mass Vehicle Check
If push comes to shove, and a state interprets the salvage supercharger enabling inspection as a "repair" that the owner can do themselves, Tesla can always discontinue the program (which makes things worse for salvage owners). There is an obvious conflict of interest for an owner to self certify, given an owner of course would be highly incentivized to pass themselves (for the same reason state inspections don't allow self certification and also try to catch shops that are corrupt and take payment to pass a car without it actually really passing).
Good discussion but the 5th point I made regarding Tesla blocking sc physically is the weakest. My strongest point I believe is teslas intrusion into an owners vehicle to make modifications that suits them without owner permission should be found illegal - and I believe that would be found illegal. I don’t find any precedent that allows a dealer to change anything in your car if you don’t request or allow it - especially if you don’t even bring it to them for any reason. Worst yet, a manufacturer, not just a dealer.
henderrj
Active Member
If you think that's the case, then simply contact your state's attorney general's office. You can converse with them and they will tell you whether or not they will pursue the case. I for one, having paid Tesla to get mine reinstated, would love to hear the answer!
For your enlightenment I worked for almost a year with our state's attorney's general's office. In the end they gave it up. And Tesla had been giving me warranty work and free supercharging on my car for nearly 6 years, then suddenly discovered it was salvage title. It turns out it really was, though they had told me before I bought it (third party) it was a clean title. But I couldn't prove that (phone conversation). If my case couldn't get through I don't think yours has a chance at all. Sorry.
A gas station cannot blacklist an ICE car for having a salvage title, even though the gas station owns the pumps, so how is it that (in your mind) Tesla has the right to blacklist any Tesla from using the Supercharger network? HeII, you can even pump a tank full of gasoline into your Diesel truck if you want to, the gas station owner will consider you an idiot (and if they notice they will try to stop you) but they will not blacklist you from coming back.
Personally, I think that right to repair advocates should put pressure on the government to block Tesla from getting government funding for the Supercharger network on the grounds that they are not providing charging to all EV's... if the magic dock works with salvage title Tesla's this argument goes away, but it also makes the practice of blacklisting salvage title Teslas irrelevant as well as stupid.
Keith
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Actually they can if they wanted to as @MP3Mike pointed out that thay even blacklisted a car for leaking fuel. As he said, the title status of a vehicle is not a protected class. Businesses can refuse service for practically any reason, as long as they aren't discriminating against a protected class.
Edit: also up thread someone detailed working with a lawyer for years to try to fight Tesla's salvage blocking policy and didn't end up going anywhere, which is even more evidence what you say about what Tesla is doing being illegal isn't true.
I'm sure some Tesla owners would love that as they don't want people competing for chargers. On the government end, all they would be doing is shooting themselves in the foot as Tesla opening up their network is pretty much the biggest game changer for non-Tesla charging in a long while.
No it doesn't, as pointed out earlier, allowing non-Teslas to charge (due to impossibility of implementing a salvage block) does not change the blacklisting justification at all. If a Tesla caught on fire at a supercharger, it'll be widely reported and the media will practically never bother to find if it is salvage or not. If a non-Tesla caught on fire at Magic Dock, the negative impact on Tesla would be far less or non-existent, given it's not a Tesla.
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brainhouston
Active Member
Just have someone root ur car n enable SC, its cheaper than inspection. Profit 
Glad we have vulnerabilities n smart ppl.
Kicker: Tesla access can be blocked in the process so no more changes to ur car.
Glad we have vulnerabilities n smart ppl.
Kicker: Tesla access can be blocked in the process so no more changes to ur car.
Having crap loads of money and using it to pay for high priced lawyers doesn't mean what you are doing is not illegal, it just means your opponent gave up / ran out of money. That is why a push from an organized group (right to repair advocacy groups) would be more effective than an individual going it alone. Being part of a "protected class" just means you already have that organized group fighting for you... not that you have a better legal case.
Tesla wants that government handout just as bad as any other company, if the push was made to allow salvage Teslas access to the Supercharger network as a condition of receiving the government $$$, they would do the math and see that they would gain a hell of a lot more in corporate welfare from the government than they gain in charging money to recertify salvage Teslas... they would not pass up the corporate welfare over this issue, so the Tesla owners wanting to maintain the walled garden would be disappointed.
If you think that a magikdoc destroying a Porsche or Audi EV would make less headlines than a Tesla you are just being silly now. This is never going to happen BTW, see my "who wants to be a millionaire" question above. It is a spurious argument designed to distract from the real reason Tesla doesn't want salvage title Tesla's to be able to use the Supercharger network... they want to discourage repair of salvage Teslas to encourage sales of NEW Teslas.
Later,
Keith
That is provably false. Tesla rejected millions in money from California that they were granted for Superchargers because they didn't want to deal with the payment method requirements California required. Other companies wanted the money enough to meet the California requirements.
We may see the same thing with the Federal NEVI funding. Tesla may not want to meet all the restrictions, so they will just forgo the money. (This is my prediction.)
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