Santa Clara County retroactively Changing ESS Rules

[Vines]

Can you guys contact Enphase as a potential partner and get the details of their test?

While I could, and do have contacts there it's not the direction we are taking as a company, we are still all-in Tesla. Generator integration would be nice, but it's not super critical to most of our clients. The ESS systems we sell are usually large enough to not need the generator assuming reasonable off-grid usage.

I just hope that we can start putting the units within 3' of each other soon. It's a large challenge to find about 13' of exterior wall, without doors or windows, and where the customer would care to install ESS.

Interior locations are possible but the heat detector issue is not solved yet either. At least the OSFM did release the official guidance regarding R327.7, indicating there are no heat alarms that are listed for an unconditioned garage. Unfortunately, that guidance doesn't give any real concrete solutions in the meantime.

On the bright side, it looks like the ICC will accept our proposal for the IFC, so the bollards required in Santa Clara will become reasonable size...sometime in 2025

 

[holeydonut]

Lol I want to see an installation with 6 bollards, 8 disconnects and a cool reflective placard etched on aluminum.

 

[Vines]

Lol I want to see an installation with 6 bollards, 8 disconnects and a cool reflective placard etched on aluminum.

One poor customer we just installed 7 bollards in his 3 car garage for 5 powerwalls spaced 3' apart. There is now enough room for 1 car...

 

[holeydonut]

One poor customer we just installed 7 bollards in his 3 car garage for 5 powerwalls spaced 3' apart. There is now enough room for 1 car...

There’s no way he agreed to that… like bollards will lead to irreconcilable differences. Worse than leaving the toilet seat up or squeezing the toothpaste tube from the top.

 

[Vines]

There’s no way he agreed to that… like bollards will lead to irreconcilable differences. Worse than leaving the toilet seat up or squeezing the toothpaste tube from the top.

The customer explicitly agreed, after calling the fire officials himself to complain. I am so over it and just advising our team the ESS go outside in SCC territory.

 

[miimura]

@Vines, If the customer has the available space, could you install a cluster of Powerwalls in a concrete bunker/shed away from the dwelling? That would be preferable to me compared to giving up garage space.

 

[Vines]

@Vines, If the customer has the available space, could you install a cluster of Powerwalls in a concrete bunker/shed away from the dwelling? That would be preferable to me compared to giving up garage space.

As long as they are 3' apart, then yes.
If you need the stacking kit, it's better to wait for the testing. The rules of the CFC otherwise make this quite restrictive.

When we install batteries in bunkers or on exterior pads they must still be 3' apart.

 

[miimura]

As long as they are 3' apart, then yes.
If you need the stacking kit, it's better to wait for the testing. The rules of the CFC otherwise make this quite restrictive.

When we install batteries in bunkers or on exterior pads they must still be 3' apart.

So ridiculous. Put it away from the dwelling and anything else combustible and just let it burn if it ignites...

 

[holeydonut]

Random question, does SCC restrict where you can store the gasoline used to power a generator? Like does it have to be 3 feet away from the generator and 3 feet away from doors and stuff?

Because if I'm worried about something catching on fire, it's going to be a thing that holds a bunch of gasoline.

 

[Vines]

So ridiculous. Put it away from the dwelling and anything else combustible and just let it burn if it ignites...

I agree.

It's even more ridiculous once you see how difficult it is to get a Powerwall to burn without massive physical damage. it just doesn't want to go into a thermal runaway when you overheat a few cells.

 

[badpirate]

So it's been a few more months, any word on Tesla getting powerwalls UL9450A certified, or the CA / Santa Clara County fire chiefs updating their hot take on the new restriction?

Is there somewhere to watch in order to be first to know when it's possible to finish my power wall install with the ooomph it deserves?

 

[Vines]

Powerwalls have had a UL9540A Test Report for a while now, but Santa Clara County fire officials to this point not accepted it. From what I understand, I don't understand why.

Most other jurisdictions aren't in the business of double-checking the work of a Nationally Recognized Testing Lab (NRTL) but a couple are being overly restrictive.

 

[bayareaever]

My city in Contra Costa County just inspected/approved my project without even looking at the Powerwalls. The inspectors are obviously not thorough enough- I’m actually not sure which is worse.

 

[Vines]

My city in Contra Costa County just inspected/approved my project without even looking at the Powerwalls. The inspectors are obviously not thorough enough- I’m actually not sure which is worse.

Just like any city, depends on how well your installer did their job. The inspectors are only going to spot check anyway.

Powerwalls, as a sealed unit there isn't much to check, unless your inspector does wire torque inspections.

 

[sunwarriors]

Powerwalls have had a UL9540A Test Report for a while now, but Santa Clara County fire officials to this point not accepted it. From what I understand, I don't understand why.

Most other jurisdictions aren't in the business of double-checking the work of a Nationally Recognized Testing Lab (NRTL) but a couple are being overly restrictive.

I'm sure you're more knowledgeable than me, but I've never heard Powerwalls being UL9540A, at least it's not in the current datasheet:

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/powerwall/Powerwall_2_AC_Datasheet_EN_NA.pdf

UL Launches UL 9540A Database to Recognize Manufacturers Who Have Completed Testing for Their Energy Storage Systems

UL today launched a free online database recognizing manufacturers who have completed testing under the ANSI/CAN/UL 9540A Standard for Test Method for Evaluating Thermal Runaway Fire Propagation in Battery Energy Storage Systems (BESS).

www.ul.com

I didn't check this database and don't want to bother with an account, but we can search the database here:

Login

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www.ul.com

More UL info:

UL 9540A Test Method

UL 9540A was developed to address safety concerns identified by the building codes and the fire service in the United States.

www.ul.com

Enphase has it listed on their spec sheet:

https://enphase.com/sites/default/files/2021-04/Encharge-10-DS-EN-US.pdf

 

[Vines]

I'm sure you're more knowledgeable than me, but I've never heard Powerwalls being UL9540A, at least it's not in the current datasheet:

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/powerwall/Powerwall_2_AC_Datasheet_EN_NA.pdf

UL Launches UL 9540A Database to Recognize Manufacturers Who Have Completed Testing for Their Energy Storage Systems

UL today launched a free online database recognizing manufacturers who have completed testing under the ANSI/CAN/UL 9540A Standard for Test Method for Evaluating Thermal Runaway Fire Propagation in Battery Energy Storage Systems (BESS).

www.ul.com

I didn't check this database and don't want to bother with an account, but we can search the database here:

Login

Login

www.ul.com

More UL info:

UL 9540A Test Method

UL 9540A was developed to address safety concerns identified by the building codes and the fire service in the United States.

www.ul.com

Enphase has it listed on their spec sheet:

https://enphase.com/sites/default/files/2021-04/Encharge-10-DS-EN-US.pdf

I cannot speak for Tesla datasheet, but I have seen the test report and have personally had the plans approved with the test report submitted.

Enphase went through UL who is widely recognized as the leading NRTL. This may have led to their more rapid acceptance, I cannot say.

Most of the Bay Area AHJ's accept this test report, a couple are still being difficult.

UL is not the only testing lab but certainly, their product IQ will not return results from other NRTL.

 

[wwhitney]

So at what level did Tesla pass UL9540A, and what Powerwall spatial density does that allow?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Vines]

So at what level did Tesla pass UL9540A, and what Powerwall spatial density does that allow?

Cheers, Wayne

Tesla passed the unit level testing with 6" side to side or to a corner, and 1" face to face, so stacking is approved.

 

[wwhitney]

Tesla passed the unit level testing with 6" side to side or to a corner, and 1" face to face, so stacking is approved.

Did the previous stacking arrangement provide 1" face to face, or is a new bracket/spacer required?

Thanks, Wayne

 

[Vines]

Did the previous stacking arrangement provide 1" face to face, or is a new bracket/spacer required?

Thanks, Wayne

The current stacking arrangement has about 0.9" between units. The existing stacking kit will continue to be used.