TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Seattle to Portland and back

Discussion in 'Northwest' started by Blurry_Eyed, Feb 15, 2013.

  1. Blurry_Eyed

    Blurry_Eyed MS Sig #267, MX Sig # 761

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Messages:
    561
    #1 Blurry_Eyed, Feb 15, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
    Going to take the Model S to Portland this weekend. Leaving from the Kirkland area and will do a straight shot down to Portland on Saturday via I-5. I'll do my best to monitor power usage and charging stops. I know the trip will be much different once Tesla gets a Supercharger on the I-5 corridor between Seattle and Portland, but until they do, we'll have to make due! Plan on driving fairly conservatively on the way down until I get a good sense of the power consumption. If things are looking good, I may open things up a bit as I get closer to Portland. Also will keep the temp in the cabin to be comfortable, but I plan on running the car in range mode on the way down. The car will have two adults and two kids, so it should be a fair test in terms of weight and luggage. I'll do a max charge on the way down to start off as well.

    The family and I will be staying overnight Saturday and Sunday, so it will be a good example of a tourist type weekend vacation drive to Portland from Seattle. I may not post much over the weekend, but when I get back on Monday, if I haven't posted before then I'll post info here.
     
  2. hvb

    hvb Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2012
    Messages:
    179
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    We have family in Portland and make frequent visits, so I would be interested to hear about the details of your trip. Have a good one, and keep us posted!
     
  3. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    Messages:
    2,399
    #3 ChadS, Feb 15, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
    Good luck, Blurry. I've made that trip about ten times. You should generally be fine, but that trip is just on the cusp of what I figure to be risky from a planning perspective.

    The speed limit is about half 60, half 70. Consumption is about 16% higher at 70. If it's freezing outside, consumption goes up about 13% for heat. And if it's raining and there is standing water, that can increase consumption by 10%. (Numbers behind all of this are HERE).

    If the weather is dry and 70 degrees, you would expect total consumption of rated miles to be about 108% greater than the actual miles based on the extra speed. Kirkland to Portland is 182 miles, so I would expect you to use 197 miles of range if you have cruise set at the speed limit. Easy! But of course you aren't going to get those weather conditions in February; if you plan on 32 degrees and rain, I would expect consumption to be 131% of actual miles, or 238 miles. Still likely to work with a range charge, but close enough that you have to start looking for unexpecting things that zap range. You want to make sure you have a buffer in case you arrive and the charger you plan to use is blocked.

    If you set cruise control over the speed limit, or hit headwinds or snow, or do some hooning (awfully tempting, that), that really could be pushing it. While I know I could almost always make it to Portland without a stop (and have done so in good weather), my rule is to at least plan a stop when going over 177 miles (even though I might not take it if conditions are good). In my case I usually stop at a 70A Roadster HPC in Centralia, but most people don't have an adapter for that (you also need twin chargers to take advantage of the speed). Plus that's in the middle before most of the 70mph stuff, so you won't know for sure yet if you need the stop.

    On the way there, if you're falling just a bit short, the West Coast Green Highway has some Aerovironment 30A chargers at exits 49, 14 and 11. On the way back, The Landing in Renton has some Blink 30A chargers if you need just a little oomph to get home.
     
  4. v12 to 12v

    v12 to 12v Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,063
    Hi Chad. I remember that there we chatted very early on about the possibility that the roadster charger in Centralia might be modified so that the Model S could use it. I was wondering if that and idea got any traction.

    I have a roadster/Model S adapter on order and we have been talking about setting up a system to share it by installing a lock box or something at Burgerville. The idea was that anyone who wanted to share in the adapter cost would get a key. Do you know who we would contact at Burgerville about the possibility of adding a lock box or coming up with another way to secure the adapter?

    I am wondering if the Supercharger is going to arrive before the adapter though. The last I heard was that we would be seeing Superchargers in the Northwest by the end of the year. Now I am starting to wonder. The chargers at Wendy's in Centralia were pretty busy when we were there last time and there was some waiting.
     
  5. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    Messages:
    2,399
    #5 ChadS, Feb 15, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
    Hi v12. I did mention the HPC head conversion idea to a few people, but it never really went anywhere. Tesla of course won't talk about their plans, like whether a Model S connector will be available for the Roadster. Without that, changing the head would be great for Model S owners, but would be a disaster for Roadster owners that don't have the pricey J1772 adapter (and some of them pitched in to pay for chargers like that; if they aren't on the forums but are used to using it, they could get stranded).

    Having an adapter at Burgerville sounds like the best option until we learn more from Tesla. I've only talked to people behind the counter there. I know some executive there had talked to Tesla a few years back; maybe Lance at the Bellevue store remembers. I think one of the local owners had a brief email exchange too - [edit] but it sounds like they don't have contact info anymore; sorry.
     
  6. v12 to 12v

    v12 to 12v Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,063
    Thanks for the leads!
     
  7. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Messages:
    14,241
    Location:
    Columbia River Gorge
    Please rethink who can have access to the key. Owners who are unaware of this requirement could be left without options. I've helped pay for more than one EVSE in the wild with no restrictions on who can use. I'd like to think we all keep paying it forward.
     
  8. richkae

    richkae VIN587

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,917
    I don't have the contact info any more.
     
  9. Blurry_Eyed

    Blurry_Eyed MS Sig #267, MX Sig # 761

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Messages:
    561
    Hi ChadS,

    thanks for the tips, hopefully we will have weather like we're having today on the drive down to Portland. It would be wonderful to drive in such nice weather! But it looks like the forecast for around Seattle is for rain, so I'd assume conditions on the drive won't be optimal and I'll be prepared for worst case.

    On the Model S adapter at the Burgerville, one way to secure it would be to have a box next to the charging station that holds the Model S to HPC adapter and secure that box with one of those push button number locks. The code could circulate among the Model S community and it could be occasionally changed to improve the security of it. There is always the risk that someone could wander off with it, but I'd operate under the assumption of honest people. Also if we can amortize the cost of the adapter over enough owners, if the cable were lost, it would not be a big financial loss to any one owner. Just a thought!
     
  10. Chgd Up

    Chgd Up Sig 1004

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2012
    Messages:
    62
    Location:
    United States
    #10 Chgd Up, Feb 15, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
    I've also made this trip +30 miles several times. You should have no problem barring really bad weather. Its looking pretty good this weekend so you should be in reasonably good shape. I find you just have to manage your speed to achieve your desired range. But go for the full 275 range charge.

    If it is really cold consider some blankets for the kids as the heat can run an additional 50 wh/mile and when it is really wet the semi's do a good job of clearing the water to reduce the standing water range losses. If you end up heading to the Oregon coast and need some electrons feel free to stop in for a charge at our place.
     
  11. XrstalLens

    XrstalLens Model S P1327 VIN P01867

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2011
    Messages:
    115
    Location:
    Kirkland, WA
    Another option would be to physically attach the cable to the charger or building, such as using a length of aircraft cable/wire rope with a clamp on the adapter and bolted to the building on the other end. That way the adapter can't be physically removed (it would be vulnerable to a determined thief, I'm sure, but no more so than the charger itself I suppose), and could be used or not depending on who's charging.
     
  12. Blurry_Eyed

    Blurry_Eyed MS Sig #267, MX Sig # 761

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Messages:
    561
    Made the trip from Seattle to Portland today with ease! Weather conditions were great and car performed superbly! I'll post more about energy usage on different legs of the trip, other impressions and pictures when I have some time. Quick summary is we drove about 200 miles today and used about 70 kWh. Weather was in the mid 50's outside and we kept the cabin around 70-72 degrees. No real rain to speak of during our trip and we used cruise control almost the whole way. I set the speed for the posted limits, so either 60mph or 70mph. HVAC was set to range mode. Stayed with the traffic flow of the right or middle lanes and never felt like I was being slow and holding other cars back. Ride with the air suspension was very smooth and comfortable. Kids also seemed to really enjoy the ride as well!
     
  13. Blurry_Eyed

    Blurry_Eyed MS Sig #267, MX Sig # 761

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Messages:
    561
    #13 Blurry_Eyed, Feb 17, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
    Just about ready to head back to Seattle tomorrow. I've been watching the trip meter to show the exact mileage that I was able to get on 85 kWh of energy. Been driving conservatively the whole time under almost perfect weather conditions for minimal HVAC use. Been doing the tourist kind of thing in Portland, just driving around exploring, so I think the mileage I have for 85kWh of energy could be considered fairly representative of what a tourist type trip would be. This would probably be the maximum someone will get with conservative speed limit driving (Almost no big bursts of acceleration. Also very smooth and steady speeds with maximum use of cruise control). I've been driving the car as smoothly as I can and hanging back when merging with traffic, rather than trying to out accelerate everyone.

    Final mileage reading for 85kWh of energy usage is 235.3 miles! I'm actually very impressed, as much of that was at highway speeds of between 60 to 70 mph. When I get home tomorrow and have time, I'll post different shots of my energy graphs and trip meter readings over various legs of the trip so people who want to take the trip can see what driving at the posted highway speed limits and driving under near ideal conditions would be like. My HVAC usage was very minimal with the temps in the mid 50's and sunny conditions for the majority of the trip. Didn't have to heat the car much and didn't have to cool it either. The Model S is a fantastic roadtrip car. Very smooth, comfortable, with tons of storage space and tons of room inside. Nice audio system to listen to and the navigation really is great, especially when in range of a cell connection to utilize Google maps to receive traffic information and get point of interest information. When I post more, I'll give a much more detailed review and critique of what the car is like as a longer road trip car and some things people might want to factor in until the Supercharger network is available for use in our area.

    IMG_1681.jpg
     
  14. XrstalLens

    XrstalLens Model S P1327 VIN P01867

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2011
    Messages:
    115
    Location:
    Kirkland, WA
    Thanks for the info! Looks like I'll be heading to Vancouver WA the weekend of March 9th which will be the first road trip in the Model S, so this is helpful!

    Have a great trip back, and I'll look forward to more info.
     
  15. 100thMonkey

    100thMonkey Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    914
    Location:
    Seattle area
    Thank You Chad and Blurry_Eyed for all the helpful info. We will be planning a Shoreline/Seattle to Portland trip soon. having owned the Leaf and having done quite a few long trips with it, I will take a hyper miller approach, applying some of the conservation techniques I learned driving the Leaf to see what is possible with that approach. I did take the Leaf to Portland using the West Coast Green Highway DCQC network a while back. When I'm in this mode I pay very little attention to speed, focusing more on flattening out the the energy use, this really helps with conserving energy with all those hill climbs, but it does mean slowing way down and getting in the right lane on each climb.

    absolutely can't wait for a CHAdeMO adapter, the world will be our oyster all along the West Coast Green Highway with all those DCQC's! good luck with your return trip, it sounds like you have it down pat!!
     
  16. Blurry_Eyed

    Blurry_Eyed MS Sig #267, MX Sig # 761

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Messages:
    561
    #16 Blurry_Eyed, Feb 19, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
    Made it home yesterday with no problems. On the Portland to Seattle leg of the trip, I took the exact opposite approach. I basically parked myself in the left (fast) lane, turned off range mode in the cabin and drove with out any regards to saving energy. Had some passing accelerations that took full advantage of what a Model S performance could do and here was the result on the return trip. You can see the yellow dotted line that indicates the car is maximum power output to conserve power. The car started doing that around the Renton area for me (we drove all the way back to the Redmond area). Even when limiting power, I'd say the car still felt like 0-60 in the 6 second range or so. I didn't do any stopwatch testing, but acceleration was still plenty at that point. Here is a picture of the trip meters on the Portland to Seattle leg -
    1872.jpg

    I did run into the typical slow holiday traffic heading North into Tacoma and a slow section of traffic around the Centralia area, but other than those two sections of I-5, it was speed limit plus driving. I'll put it this way - very few people passed me on my return journey from Portland. Conditions were very good again - no rain, temps in the high 40's and sunny skies. The result that surprised me was that my energy use was very close to what I used on the way to Portland when I was basically parked in the right lane driving the exact posted speed limit all the way with the car set to range mode for HVAC power. Here is a picture of the trip meters on the Seattle to Portland leg- noname.jpg

    On the trip back to Seattle, we didn't stop for any charging. Just had one rest stop for the kids by Wild Waves by Tacoma. I'll post more thoughts and detail soon...
     
  17. Blurry_Eyed

    Blurry_Eyed MS Sig #267, MX Sig # 761

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Messages:
    561
    #17 Blurry_Eyed, Feb 19, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
    A bit more info on the details of the trip
    - Had two adult and two child (8ys and 4ys) passengers.
    - Total passenger weight approximately 340 pounds
    - Weight of luggage and other misc. gear approximately 50 lbs.
    - Vehicle is a Model S Signature performance Model with 21" summer performance (Standard) wheels, rear spoiler, Panoramic roof, Rear facing kid seats and 85kWh battery pack
    - Charge was max range with 267 miles of rated range to start the trip on the way to Portland. On way back, also did a max range charge but started the trip with 261 miles of rated range (I turned on the HVAC to prewarm the car on the return trip and that used about 6 miles of rated range before we took off)
    -Conditions during the whole trip were clear with almost no rain or water on the roadway. Temperatures were in the mid 40's to mid 50's.
    - Drove to Portland between about Noon and 4:00pm. Drove back to Seattle between about 1:00pm and 5:00pm. Traffic was fairly light both ways. Going to Portland, only ran into one brief slow down just south of Tacoma where speeds dropped into the 30mph range for about 1 mile. On the way home, ran into traffic around Centralia for about 1 mile with speeds in the 30 mph range, then hit traffic in the Olympia area for about 1/2 mile where I was driving in the 20-30mph range. Then ran into traffic south of Tacoma for about 2 miles with speeds in the 20mph range
    - On the way to Portland kept the car in range mode to limit power to HVAC system, but didn't need to use HVAC system much because cabin stayed at a comfortable temperature without it
    - On the way to Seattle put the car in standard mode and used the HVAC system at full power, but also didn't need to use it that much. It was about 5 degrees colder than the trip to Portland, so we did use the HVAC system more than on the way down, but it was not really used that much on both legs of the trip.
     
  18. EarlyAdopter

    EarlyAdopter Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,497
    Location:
    Redmond, WA
    Thanks for the trip report and energy usage data.

    Where did you end up charging while in Portland?
     
  19. pilotSteve

    pilotSteve Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2012
    Messages:
    577
    Location:
    Vancouver WA
    Thanks for the info Blurry_Eyed, this is so useful. I'm taking my wife to Kirkland tomorrow staying at Carrillon Point. The hotel there has only 110V but about a mile away is Marina Park that has a public J1772 charger (and two 5-20R plugs).

    Have you any experience here? Is it safe to plug in and leave the car overnight? Or would the Kirkland library be a better choice?

    My plan is to check in to the hotel, then drive to the charger for an overnight Range charge and get a ride back.
     
  20. Blurry_Eyed

    Blurry_Eyed MS Sig #267, MX Sig # 761

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Messages:
    561
    Yes, the Marina Park chargers and the library chargers work great. First, both locations have free charging, so that's really nice. They are Chargepoint chargers, so make sure you have your Chargepoint RFID card. If you don't have one, I think you can call Chargepoint on the phone and get them to activate the charger, but I haven't tried that method before so I'm not sure how reliable it is.

    In terms of security, it's a hard call. The Marina location is out in the open and lit ok, but at that time of night the location will not have any traffic going by. The parking lot it's in is behind some commercial buildings and I'd describe it as kind of being in a pit below those buildings, so there is not much car traffic going by that location and not that much visibility from the street. That general area of Kirkland is fairly safe and I would feel fairly comfortable leaving my car plugged into that charging station overnight. The library location is in the garage under the library in the under-building garage. It's also lit adequately at night, but it is hidden from view, so there could be more potential for mischief from that perspective. It's also next to the downtown Kirkland bus terminal. Although that might be a positive if you wanted to time your drop off of the car, you might be able to catch a bus back to Carrillon point rather than pay more for a taxi.

    Another charging option would be to go to Bellevue Square and have dinner, catch a movie or just hang out at the mall at one of the coffee shops. You could pick up an hour or three of charge depending on your plans. The Tesla store is there and they have a Roadster charger with a Model S adapter available. It will charge at about 40 miles of rated range per hour. Call the Bellevue store ahead and let them know you will be coming by. They will do their best to make sure the charger is available. Bellevue does have a large (and growing larger every day) population of Model S's, so it isn't a guaranteed thing that you can get access to the Roadster charger when you want. You might be able to work out something with the Bellevue store so they can hold the adapter for you if you have a definite time you will be arriving to charge.

    The Seattle and Eastside area have a large amount of public chargers, so you may be able to find public charging based on your itinerary. If you're doing the drive up Sunday and drive back Monday thing, then an overnight range charge will be the best thing.

    If you don't feel that comfortable with the two charging locations, feel free to PM me and you can charge in our 14-50 plug at our home overnight. I'd be happy to give you a ride back to your hotel. I'm about a 10 minute drive away from it. Monday morning I have to be in the office by 7:15, but I work in downtown Kirkland and if you are planning on having a leisurely morning, I'm available to pick you up after 10:00am, or if you are an early riser, I could come by around 6:50am and take you back to your car.

    You'll have a great time with on the road trip! It's a joy to drive the S over long distances and having all the storage space in the Frunk and Trunk available makes for a clutter free cabin!

    - - - Updated - - -

    We hit a couple of charging stations. The first thing we did was go to the Washington Square mall and plug in at the Tesla HPWC charger at about 40 miles of rated range per hour. Our car does have the twin on-bard chargers. If you have the single onboard charger, you will get about 20 miles of rated range per hour. We spent about 1.5 hours at the mall, grabed some food and walked around. Then the first night I just plugged in off a 110V outlet at the Marriott Residence inn overnight. The staff there was really helpful and ran an extension cord from an outlet and even blocked off a parking space for us! I was a bit worried about it at first because Tesla does not recommend using and extension cord, with the Universal Mobile Connector but I tried it (the cord was probably about 15 or 25 feet long and not a heavy gauge wire) and it worked! It helped keep the battery from losing range overnight. It charged between 2 and 3 miles of rated range per hour. I had the mobile app, so I monitored the charge status. For some reason, the charge stopped after about 15 minutes, but I just used the app to restart it and it stayed steady for the rest of the night.

    The next day we stopped by a Fred Meyer in Portland and charged for about 45 minutes on a Blink J1772 charger while getting some groceries. Then after that we stopped by the Smart Park Davis Street garage (in the Chinatown area of Portland) and spent about 1.5 hours at the Chinese Botanical garden. The Smart Park Davis Street garage has a 14-50 plug, so we were recharging at about 21 miles per hour of rated range. If you get the Plugshare app, or go to the Plugshare website, I posted pictures and information about that particular site on the pin at that location.

    Then we went back to the hotel for a few hours and charged on the 110V outlet and then went back to Washington Square for dinner with the kids. Went to the Cheesecake factory (the wait was about 1 hour!), so we hung out and charged on the Tesla HPWC at 40 miles per hour. Spent about 3 hours total there and did a range charge. By the time we left the mall, after all the other charging I did on Saturday and Sunday (The trip was Saturday thru Monday), we had a full range charge. Then drove back to the Marriott and plugged into the 110V outlet overnight and left Monday with a full range charge.

    In the future I might try only going with a standard charge and stopping in Centralia for 45 min to 1 hour charge while having lunch. Driving conditions need to be good to make this type of trip work (see ChadS's excellent posts about range for road trips), but I do worry about the battery health over time and the less I use range charges, the better I feel. Once there is a Supercharger in Centralia, it will be absolutely no problem to make it to Portland on a standard charge.

    If you want more details, please feel free to PM me. I've been super busy and haven't been able to post more detail on the trip, but I do intend to soon!
     

Share This Page