Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
You can definitely get assigned during the trading day.
Robinhood has this blurb about it which implies otherwise:

Keep in mind that we can’t process an early assignment before the end of the trading day and, so we can’t exercise the long leg until the next trading day (at the earliest). That’s because the Options Clearing Corporation (OCC) doesn’t notify us of your assignment until after the market closes (when they process assignments). While funds and shares that result from exercises are made available immediately during market hours, positions exercised after market hours are queued and credited to your account the next trading day.
I'm curious have you experienced an early assignment during trading hours? I've been early assigned a couple times and it was always overnight.

There is no question that a person can exercise during trading hours, but the OCC doesn't process assignments until after market close.
 
Last edited:
Robinhood has this blurb about it which implies otherwise:


I'm curious have you experienced an early assignment during trading hours? I've been early assigned a couple times and it was always overnight.

There is no question that a person can exercise during trading hours, but the OCC doesn't process assignments until after market close.
I have been assigned during trading hours.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: OrthoSurg
I've been going through last year's investments/trades and here's a rough analysis of the contribution to profit per type...

Seems to be one big loser there!

View attachment 769700
One of many lessons I've learned is to be patient with selling calls (and I'm sure with cash covered puts also). Did you analyze what would have happened with those 'Sold Weekly Call' options if you had continued to roll them near expiration? Since you were near or ATM when you wrote them, I would think you would have been able to continue rolling until SP dropped?

This assumes these were covered calls and not naked calls.

The first couple of times my CCs got ITM, I bought back at a loss, as I hated the thought of potentially having shares called away. I'm more patient now and just roll them out (typically at higher strike prices and longer expirations for neutral credit/debit) until the SP catches up.

I know this doesn't work if the SP continues to go up. Theoretically, the SP will at some point get out of reach and I won't be able to continue rolling without a debit. But that has yet to happen. Worst case, I lose my shares at an elevated price.
 
I've already mentioned this before, but I have exercised calls during trading hours, which were deep ITM and had plenty of time value left. This was right around the S&P 500 inclusion. To do this, I had to call the trading desk, explain many times why I wanted to do this even though there was time value left, etc. It took about 30 minutes to exercise the 3 contracts.
 
Good stuff @adiggs , thanks for sharing.

I'm personally far from retirement goals but I see it happening this decade if TSLA executes and I don't blow up my account. That's why I'm already pondering how I'll convert from portfolio growth mode to income mode when the time is right. And posts like yours are a great help in this regard.
One bit of not-advice -- looking ahead to that shift in thinking, you can set aside some portion of the portfolio to start managing for income before you need it. Get some experience with the specific trading approach that works for you, as well as a range of experience in how things proceed.

I'd guess that $100k isn't enough to do what I was describing effectively, but maybe 300-500k would be enough on the low side for a test run.
 
oh hey - russia / ukraine tensions are up today and shares are down. I'm shocked, shocked I say.

No idea up or down from here with all the same forces at work, but generally guessing we'll be between 850 and 950. Open up csp for next week at the 790 strike. Seems like we've been bouncing off of 850 going down - I went with 790 to be a bit behind what I expect to be another layer of resistance at 800. And heck - nearly $4 credit, so that makes me happy.
 
Don't want to gloat, but now this spread went +50%.

I'm aiming for 65% profit. No clue what to do next. It's Wednesday so maybe a Feb25 900/850bps.
Just closed the 2/18 950/1000bcs for 70% profit.

I've set up 2/25 900/850bps and 870/820bps for ridiculous high credit, waiting if anything is going to bite. I think not, so thinking about which one I'd prefer to bite and lower credit.
 
Just closed the 2/18 950/1000bcs for 70% profit.

I've set up 2/25 900/850bps and 870/820bps for ridiculous high credit, waiting if anything is going to bite. I think not, so thinking about which one I'd prefer to bite and lower credit.
Personally I wouldn't dare go higher than -850p. And that's even pushing it after what we've seen last friday. But of course -850 has yet to break so your bet might be great.
 
  • Like
Reactions: InTheShadows
Personally I wouldn't dare go higher than -850p. And that's even pushing it after what we've seen last friday. But of course -850 has yet to break so your bet might be great.
I'm expecting another pulldown on Friday to below 900, say 870, and a recovery on monday.

Which means that if I'd secure the 900/850, I risk going red for a while and meeting mrs. IBKR margin nanny, even if I'd not max my margin out.

850/800 is a sure bet, looking at 6,45 of credit now. 870/820 gives 8,55, but my internal calculation says I should try to get more, like 13. It was 11 just before the spike up. So part of this is also timing, since if I'd sell a 870/820 at a stock price of 905, I get more credit than selling it at 915. It's always easier to start with an advantage.
 
Personally I wouldn't dare go higher than -850p. And that's even pushing it after what we've seen last friday. But of course -850 has yet to break so your bet might be great.
Also not-advice, with the bounces off of 850 plus how easily and quickly we've dropped to 850 a couple of times over the last week, 850 is as close as I would be as well. In addition to the ongoing ukraine / russia thing, we have minutes from the recent Fed meeting coming out. I don't expect them to say anything particularly surprising, but I do expect them to reinforce the idea that the Fed will be making some moves soon.

Somewhat off-topic -- I'm going to give it a whirl anyway and try to thread the needle. I consider some interest rate increases and the end of the bond buying program to be very good things. I would rather see something more like 2% on the overnight rate the Fed directly sets than the 0% we've been at for .. years? Having the interest rate >0% means that the Fed will have some room should there be a need to lower the interest rate in the future.

That being said, a series of interest rate hikes from 0 to 2% (my made up guess of a number in the next 1-2 years) also means that component of the macro environment isn't going to be going away any time soon. I think that is safe to say for at least the next couple of quarters at least. That doesn't mean that investors will react to the 3rd or 4th quarter point rate hike the way they are reacting now where macro dominates the Tesla share price, but that friction also isn't going to go away in March when we get the first rate hike.


For the very short term - say this month and next when we get the initial rate hike, I expect macro to be the dominant force over the Tesla share price. We won't have new P/D or earnings until April - that is the soonest I see a reasonable likelihood of the Tesla story / financials to become the dominant force. I guess that means I see a few months worth of share buying opportunity, as well as (hopefully) a nice dynamic balance between bad macro + good Tesla story to = flattish share price (good for me as an option seller).


Put all that interest rate (and inflation) stuff into the juice hopper and I expect macro to be a form of ongoing resistance / friction for the TSLA share price for the rest of the year at minimum. When the Tesla story / financials will become so compelling that it overcomes that resistance and returns to ATH territory - that I don't have a guess at. What I do expect is necessary for me, is to be more aware of that macro picture and in particular the impacts of inflation and interest rates, directly and indirectly on my positions.
 
Hello, I'm an option noob that wandered over from the main thread. I've appreciated reading all your option trading experiences (good and bad).

I wanted to start with some fairly "safe" options by writing weekly CC about 25-30% OTM with delta less than 0.05. Not too worried about the premiums since it would be just play money (not retired) but I definitely would not want my shares called away. Anyone else doing this? Some are doing a bit more aggressive strikes (10-20% OTM) and rolling up and out if the stock price goes up.

It seems like most people are doing BPS vs cash secured puts, from my understanding, the advantages are leverage (cash + margins) and insurance for a deep stock price drop? Is that it?
 
Robinhood has this blurb about it which implies otherwise:


I'm curious have you experienced an early assignment during trading hours? I've been early assigned a couple times and it was always overnight.

There is no question that a person can exercise during trading hours, but the OCC doesn't process assignments until after market close.

That section of the agreement is part of RobinHood's FAQ about "Early Assignment":

"If you’re trading a multi-leg options strategy and you are assigned on your short position before expiration, there are a few things to keep in mind.
-decreased buying power
-account deficits
-margin calls
-early assignment and exercise (the part you quoted)"

Within that context, it means that within your spread, if you're assigned early on your short leg, although you can exercise the long leg to satisfy the margin call, the exercise of the long leg won't happen until the next trading day.

Which may not be a big deal in some cases. I don't know about RobinHood, but both TD and Schwab have told me that if I call them after getting margin called, they can give me a day or so to satisfy the margin call (allowing more time than just a few hours).

Regardless, the fact remains that options can be early assigned to you during the trading day, even with RobinHood.
 
Hello, I'm an option noob that wandered over from the main thread. I've appreciated reading all your option trading experiences (good and bad).

I wanted to start with some fairly "safe" options by writing weekly CC about 25-30% OTM with delta less than 0.05. Not too worried about the premiums since it would be just play money (not retired) but I definitely would not want my shares called away. Anyone else doing this? Some are doing a bit more aggressive strikes (10-20% OTM) and rolling up and out if the stock price goes up.

It seems like most people are doing BPS vs cash secured puts, from my understanding, the advantages are leverage (cash + margins) and insurance for a deep stock price drop? Is that it?
Assuming you've been through the OA education series, here are my suggestions.

Regardless of the style of trade you decide to start with (covered call, naked puts, put spreads, call spreads, etc..), do so using small enough sized positions that you could get a max loss in some sort of black swan and it won't hurt your overall portfolio. Small enough to learn from, big enough to get your attention (a single covered call with a $10M portfolio probably isn't interesting enough to keep focused and learn much).

About as close to advice as I'll come is to start with cash secured puts, and share backed covered calls. The rationale is the same in both cases - the max loss on the cash secured put is that you buy 100 shares at the put strike price. The max loss on the share backed covered call is you sell 100 shares at the call strike price.

So pick a strike in each case where, in addition to everything else you consider when choosing your strike and expiration, you are also comfortable with conducting the worst case transaction if that need arises.

The problem with spreads is that they always resolve using cash, and the dynamics are similar yet different enough from the short puts and calls that max losses can be well defined with a maximum size, and reached dramatically easier and faster (really not fun when it happens).


You can see my own starting trades back when I started, at the start of this thread. I think I sold 200 strike puts when shares were around $400. I was so worried about assignment that I went WAY overboard (compared to me today) protecting myself from going ITM and being assigned. Followed that up with some 175s. The point though is that I got started, learned some stuff by having skin in the game, and got paid to learn.


More generally avoid any sort of leverage as you get started. That includes, if possible, using no margin even if that is available. Its easy to add leverage later on as you gain experience.

I guess another question to ponder - is this something you're wanting to dabble in, or is this something that you think -might- become something you see yourself doing for years to come? If it is the latter, then whether you need a few weeks, a few months, or a few quarters to gain experience and knowledge, then who cares? Do some modestly sized trades, try different aggression levels as you learn, and think in terms of the trades generating beer and sushi money.


EDIT: And welcome! May your learning be varied, interesting, fun, and profitable.
 
That section of the agreement is part of RobinHood's FAQ about "Early Assignment":

"If you’re trading a multi-leg options strategy and you are assigned on your short position before expiration, there are a few things to keep in mind.
-decreased buying power
-account deficits
-margin calls
-early assignment and exercise (the part you quoted)"

Within that context, it means that within your spread, if you're assigned early on your short leg, although you can exercise the long leg to satisfy the margin call, the exercise of the long leg won't happen until the next trading day.

Which may not be a big deal in some cases. I don't know about RobinHood, but both TD and Schwab have told me that if I call them after getting margin called, they can give me a day or so to satisfy the margin call (allowing more time than just a few hours).

Regardless, the fact remains that options can be early assigned to you during the trading day, even with RobinHood.
Yeah I'm not trying to further argue my point, as it clearly isn't correct, but the part of interest was not that stuff, but rather the bit about the OCC not notifying them of assignment until after hours.