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Service says $22k for new battery on 2012 Model S
- Thread starter badpenny
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- bad battery hv battery
Probably fair to point out that no EV manufacture has solved low battery replacement cost. But we really only have 2 long term data point for Lithium Ion (Leafs and MS) none hybrids (battery stress very different). All others are either too low volume or too new and still under factory drivetrain warranty.
Leaf battery's main issue is range degradation from the small capacity (effectively range charge after every drive). Nissan's replacement cost is $8-$9k w/install. These cars still "functional" but range cut down to groceries runs. These small capacity designs are obsolete in the west.
MS's battery failure is cell level + internal electronics (don't know the mix but all the same if repair solution is pack replacement) Cost seems to be ~$20k depending on goodwill level. While 2x+ Leafs price, of course a far larger capacity/range.
EV's continuing price drop + tax incentives leads owners toward new cars rather than battery repair. For for value segment, owners accept disposal. For premium segment, a more varied opinions on valuation of discretionary spending
As for lower cost EV battery longevity...
Getting high % of battery packs to 150-200k mies without failure seems challenging in the near term for numerous reasons : Lithium Ion cell failure modes, all the supporting electronics + interweaved coolant channels.
In-field lower cost asset (pack sub module) replacements is a possible solution. But training and equipping many facilities to deal with dangerous HV would certainly be concerning. Quick safety disconnects for every pack module would go a long way. Currently, they are all bolted together without any shielding during removal. Disassembler need all the HV precaution : gloves, insulated tools, etc.
Since the issue is long term reliability, iteration is slow so might be a couple of decades (or longer) of evolved learning. Current Tesla focus is still very much on scaling volume to drive down cost of new cars.
Leaf battery's main issue is range degradation from the small capacity (effectively range charge after every drive). Nissan's replacement cost is $8-$9k w/install. These cars still "functional" but range cut down to groceries runs. These small capacity designs are obsolete in the west.
MS's battery failure is cell level + internal electronics (don't know the mix but all the same if repair solution is pack replacement) Cost seems to be ~$20k depending on goodwill level. While 2x+ Leafs price, of course a far larger capacity/range.
EV's continuing price drop + tax incentives leads owners toward new cars rather than battery repair. For for value segment, owners accept disposal. For premium segment, a more varied opinions on valuation of discretionary spending
As for lower cost EV battery longevity...
Getting high % of battery packs to 150-200k mies without failure seems challenging in the near term for numerous reasons : Lithium Ion cell failure modes, all the supporting electronics + interweaved coolant channels.
In-field lower cost asset (pack sub module) replacements is a possible solution. But training and equipping many facilities to deal with dangerous HV would certainly be concerning. Quick safety disconnects for every pack module would go a long way. Currently, they are all bolted together without any shielding during removal. Disassembler need all the HV precaution : gloves, insulated tools, etc.
Since the issue is long term reliability, iteration is slow so might be a couple of decades (or longer) of evolved learning. Current Tesla focus is still very much on scaling volume to drive down cost of new cars.
aerodyne
2 of 3 EV's - Defect Free!
So much for "Building a Sustainable Future"...as least as far as externalized costs goes.Probably fair to point out that no EV manufacture has solved low battery replacement cost. But we really only have 2 long term data point for Lithium Ion (Leafs and MS) none hybrids (battery stress very different). All others are either too low volume or too new and still under factory drivetrain warranty.
Leaf battery's main issue is range degradation from the small capacity (effectively range charge after every drive). Nissan's replacement cost is $8-$9k w/install. These cars still "functional" but range cut down to groceries runs. These small capacity designs are obsolete in the west.
MS's battery failure is cell level + internal electronics (don't know the mix but all the same if repair solution is pack replacement) Cost seems to be ~$20k depending on goodwill level. While 2x+ Leafs price, of course a far larger capacity/range.
EV's continuing price drop + tax incentives leads owners toward new cars rather than battery repair. For for value segment, owners accept disposal. For premium segment, a more varied opinions on valuation of discretionary spending
As for lower cost EV battery longevity...
Getting high % of battery packs to 150-200k mies without failure seems challenging in the near term for numerous reasons : Lithium Ion cell failure modes, all the supporting electronics + interweaved coolant channels.
In-field lower cost asset (pack sub module) replacements is a possible solution. But training and equipping many facilities to deal with dangerous HV would certainly be concerning. Quick safety disconnects for every pack module would go a long way. Currently, they are all bolted together without any shielding during removal. Disassembler need all the HV precaution : gloves, insulated tools, etc.
Since the issue is long term reliability, iteration is slow so might be a couple of decades (or longer) of evolved learning. Current Tesla focus is still very much on scaling volume to drive down cost of new cars.
Exactly. Only reason I see now is that this battery is for the warranty replacements on 85/90.
Tesla perhaps don't want to give a 100 capacity on a warranty item, that only needs to perform as good as the previous battery. I saw another forum member with a 70, having his battery replaced by a 90, and within a week or so it was software locked to the 70 capacity, with no option to unlock.
But moving forward, as we now have more owners having to pay for a new battery, it would perfectly make sense.
... unless there is the risk of someone figuring out to start buying old 85 (30k$) + new 100 pack (25k$), that would come cheaper than "real" 100 cars ?
Talked to previous owner, he says that he does not know what the $6k discount was for. He said either because he flipped out over the $20k invoice or for the core charge. He noted, "They told me that if I wanted to keep the old battery that they would charge me for it."
Not much help, sorry. Maybe I'll ask Telsa today when they look at it for the sunroof issue.
Oh, this just happened today...score...considering it was replaced back in November, out of warranty, they should fix this to. We'll see in a few hours : )
Not much help, sorry. Maybe I'll ask Telsa today when they look at it for the sunroof issue.
Oh, this just happened today...score...considering it was replaced back in November, out of warranty, they should fix this to. We'll see in a few hours : )
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But in my case, it was NOT a warranty item. The previous owner paid the $16k out of pocket for the new battery
Electric700
Active Member
We have to tell them what we (or likely the majority of us) want -- low cost fixes for main battery packs out of warranty, as well as other components! The more demand there is, the more likely they will do it.
The positive in this case is that he got a new battery and not a reman. The 20k list price is not nice in my opinion, but the 6k reduction makes it less hard to swallow.But in my case, it was NOT a warranty item. The previous owner paid the $16k out of pocket for the new battery
I 100% agree! New battery - score...$20k invoice - oh no!
Oh, fun part is sliding into it today to take it for sunroof repair to have the display yelling at me to replace the 12v battery. Ummmmmmm yeah, we did that...back in November. They're going to look into that today as well : )
I known @TwistedGray already read it, but maybe some did not.
In this discussion, 2013 Model S P85 vehicle shut down while driving, there is a great, imo, experience with the new 90 replacement battery. In this story,it is about a warranty replacement of a 85, where the extra 5kW is optional for a fee.
This is the way to go.
Of course, I’d find it even greater if instead of a 90, it was a 100 pack, with the same deal: locked to 85 and upgradable to 90 or 100, “for a few dollars more”
In this discussion, 2013 Model S P85 vehicle shut down while driving, there is a great, imo, experience with the new 90 replacement battery. In this story,it is about a warranty replacement of a 85, where the extra 5kW is optional for a fee.
This is the way to go.
Of course, I’d find it even greater if instead of a 90, it was a 100 pack, with the same deal: locked to 85 and upgradable to 90 or 100, “for a few dollars more”
A creative way to upcharge customers; however, there's "some" cost associated with slapping every sub-100 with a 100 pack and hope people pay for the extra. Something to consider...
You have a point indeed.
That being said, Tesla did it in the past: 40 that were 60 software locked, or later 60 that were 75 sw locked. I guess Tesla has plenty of data regarding Tesla owners bevariour with those kind of batteries, versus the benefit of simplified pack production.
Another factor, in line with your reasoning, is the pack weight, that reportedly, for 100, requires the air suspension.
Come to think of it, the 100 pack is probably way too complex to organize: “I see you have air suspension, so you could go for a 100” or “I see you have coils, so 90 it must be”
Take a couple days off on the hottest days of the year, pick an empty stretch of freeway close to a supercharger, and spend 16+ Hours straight doing 0-80mph pulls until your battery is below 10%, supercharge to 95% and repeat until you kill it so you can get a replacement before your warranty runs out.
SucreTease
Teslarian
This is really foolish. If it doesn't kill your battery, you could end up stuck with an expired warranty and a very degraded battery that didn't quite qualify for warranty replacement—and perhaps ready to fail soon without warranty.
I guess I need to specify that I was joking
. Tesla doesn’t care what your range is on a Model S battery as long as it still charges.I guess I need to specify that I was joking
Here is my charging from yesterday.....you can see where I starter, 5 min later went down....then cam back up and leveled off but went up a little more....then it started to go up again but took a nose dive...
I stopped TeslFi and restarted (2nd graph) to see if it picked it up.....graph stayed the same then went down again, and the back up....there was no one beside me on either side....
so I have no idea what's going on....all I know is that when I go to charge, after 5 minutes charge goes down....most of the time it is 50% of the supercharger capability ( 75kw to 36kW.......150kW to 75kW......250kW to <110kW)....dont know what to do...Tesla tell me everything is ok and charging is ok....go figure
Electrek should cover this to show people how much it cost to own the car out of warranty. They should also share the fail rate of the cars out of warranty according the Gerber motors repair. Seems to me as pretty high and more in the pipeline. Yes it will tank the resale value of my Tesla and others, but at least it is transparent and hopefully Tesla owns up to offer something more reasonable than $20K battery replacement.
But knowing them, they are probably pro Tesla so they probably will never run it.
But knowing them, they are probably pro Tesla so they probably will never run it.
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I agree with you! On another note, do you think the battery packs introduced with the Model 3 and 2170 cells will have similar failures down the line?
doubt it is much different. there will be less cells overall and Tesla, knowing the problem they had with the Model S/X, made changes to the way they built the model 3 pack. It is more modular so you can better swap out one section of the pack vs having to replacing the whole thing. This makes battery replacement cheaper because you are replacing one sub-pack vs the whole pack. But cost is still the same from what I heard if you replace all the sub-pack.
Right now, the two real solution is make the pack much more accessible to DIY or 3rd party repairs to swap out crappy cells. Or make whole pack so cheap, people would not complain about it. I doubt Tesla will pursue the former. The latter is maybe more more attainable but will require massive automation and economy of scale to reach that point. We are probably a decade or 2 from that IMO despite whatever Musk is proclaiming in his fairy land.
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