Smelly stinky socks / mold in Model 3 AC

[Freedom]

Well I have to give him credit for his tenacity. I think his observations regarding the bottom filter absorbing water are valid. It seems like a simple test would be to use one of those foam filters on the bottom along with an oem on the top. I might buy one and give it a shot as I need to do mine anyway.

However there is still the question of the coils holding some of the smell. In my experience, if I only replace the filters and don't spray the coils with disinfectant, the smell comes back pretty quickly.

Edit:

Those xtechnor filters appear to have a plastic frame:

Amazon.com

i recall a post somewhere on this forum that aftermarket like the ones you linked with the black foam melting or pull tabs breaking. I'll try to look for it later.

 

[XPsionic]

Great second video but honestly it shouldn't surprise anyone who's been reading this thread from the beginning that his first video was not the only problem causing the ac stink.

After 4x cleaning and filter changes and testing different cleaner agents, I'm thinking the stink isn't even in the filters themselves, at least not entirely, but originates the ac drain pan or coils themselves.

From my observations, the stink is the worst for short 5 to 30 minute stops. When the ac system is capable of producing terrible smells, i find that simply toggling re-circ off (from auto or on) can trigger the terrible smells. Also when the system is stinky, when the weather conditions outside make the ac in the car cycle the ac on and off, the smell is really bad as well.

 

[nayr14]

I just happen to be due for my filters today and thought I'd try the 3d printed part. I took the STL, print it and attached it to the new (Wix) filter. Before I tried putting it in I ran an endoscope down to check how my filter housing looked. It looks very different than the demo unit from the new video. See attached. I have a late 2018 build (one with the top screw filter door).

I decided to install the filter anyhow but the 3d printed clip wouldn't fit through the insert. I realized I could push it through if I tried, but opted not to because removal would be very difficult and I'd possibly lose the clip. Just installed new filters for now since mine were two years old. I'm guessing the refreshed filter door is wider.

I agree that the condenser cleaning isn't helpful unless you still smell it while running the HVAC with the filters out. It's pretty clearly liquid on the filters.

BTW, I picked up one of these finger ratchet tools years ago (for $7). Great for removing and installing the top filter door screw assuming you have a bit that works.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Well I have to give him credit for his tenacity. I think his observations regarding the bottom filter absorbing water are valid. It seems like a simple test would be to use one of those foam filters on the bottom along with an oem on the top. I might buy one and give it a shot as I need to do mine anyway.

However there is still the question of the coils holding some of the smell. In my experience, if I only replace the filters and don't spray the coils with disinfectant, the smell comes back pretty quickly.

Edit:

Those xtechnor filters appear to have a plastic frame:

Amazon.com

I remember the plastic frame have been tried by people with the problem in the past and it didn't prevent the smell, although I see in his comments someone did claim it did.

This new video still only addresses cases where the filter is the source of the smell, but my understanding is that is not the case for a lot of people.

Basically the simple test is either to test if the system still smells with the filters out of the car or to wet the filter and see if a smell comes from the filter. If the smell is from the filter, then his suggested fixes will help.

 

[rotarypower101]

I remember the plastic frame have been tried by people with the problem in the past and it didn't prevent the smell, although I see in his comments someone did claim it did.

This new video still only addresses cases where the filter is the source of the smell, but my understanding is that is not the case for a lot of people.

Basically the simple test is either to test if the system still smells with the filters out of the car or to wet the filter and see if a smell comes from the filter. If the smell is from the filter, then his suggested fixes will help.

Possible someone can explain how the 3D printed separator attached to the bottom of the filter is helpful?

If based on his assertion the humidity is in the outside air being pushed through the filter media, won't the media absorb that humidity regardless of a plastic tab over the lower drain relief? Why is moisture coalescing at the drain specifically?

Is there moisture condensing on the lower part of the HVAC assembly the filter media touches, and localized in the drain area "only/primarily" for some reason?

It must be the entire filter media that is absorbing humidity, Right? And possibly migration of moisture down to the bottom of the media?

 

[stopcrazypp]

Possible someone can explain how the 3D printed separator attached to the bottom of the filter is helpful?

If based on his assertion the humidity is in the outside air being pushed through the filter media, won't the media absorb that humidity regardless of a plastic tab over the lower drain relief? Why is moisture coalescing at the drain specifically?

Is there moisture condensing on the lower part of the HVAC assembly the filter media touches, and localized in the drain area "only/primarily" for some reason?

It must be the entire filter media that is absorbing humidity, Right? And possibly migration of moisture down to the bottom of the media?

View attachment 1003959

From his video, his earlier A/B test with the Tesla drying mode on vs drying mode off is that the bottom of the filter gets moist when Tesla drying mode is enabled. Somehow, that drain hole, which is in the exact spot that 3d printed separator is at, contributes to the filter getting moist in that area. He then tried with the separator with Tesla drying mode on and it didn't get wet.

It's not really entirely clear where that moisture is coming from. He did multiple tests and video of the evaporator and also trying to water to go up the flow tube and that doesn't seem to result in any visible water in that area. As you note, it would make more sense for the whole filter to get wet (given the fan would be blowing moist air over the whole filter), not just the bottom. But somehow having that separator means the bottom doesn't get moist.

 

[XPsionic]

From his video, his earlier A/B test with the Tesla drying mode on vs drying mode off is that the bottom of the filter gets moist when Tesla drying mode is enabled. Somehow, that drain hole, which is in the exact spot that 3d printed separator is at, contributes to the filter getting moist in that area. He then tried with the separator with Tesla drying mode on and it didn't get wet.

It's not really entirely clear where that moisture is coming from. He did multiple tests and video of the evaporator and also trying to water to go up the flow tube and that doesn't seem to result in any visible water in that area. As you note, it would make more sense for the whole filter to get wet (given the fan would be blowing moist air over the whole filter), not just the bottom. But somehow having that separator means the bottom doesn't get moist.

This YouTuber is doing a mixture of great investigation and an awful job pushing unproven products (sponsored or not) in both of his model 3 ac smell videos. He's also neglecting some of the factors and operational modes of the model 3 AC which can affect his testing, which I'll get into below.

First video, he was so confident that water intake from the windshield is the source of the smell and told people to buy something to stop it, then he realizes there's more to the story and now he's telling people to elevate the filter off the mounting area even though his own very well done research has shown no water migration from the condenser drain.

His videos did uncover a lot of previously unknown details so that's great. While I'm not entirely convinced that the filters are the sole source of the smells in my own car (could be different in yours) because when the ac sinks really bad, only replacing the filters doesn't make the stink go away for more than a couple of days, if that, but ac foam cleaning +filters works for a few months.

Since the smell is almost non existent while the ac is running, and always the strongest after short stops and then consequently restart of the ac system, combined with the video evidence that no actual water would touch the ac filters, it seems to me that his theory of moist air coming in from the intake due to Tesla's anti funk strategy is only plausible and not definitive. This theory doesn't explain why cars in the desert can still stink. One anecdotal data point from my car that supports this theory is when the ac system stinks, I've been able to trigger the stink by ending a drive, sitting in the car with ac running and not stinking, turning off re-circ manually, and get a face full of stinky air.

Unfortunately a big point against this theory is that I could turn off the ac and manually turn off re-circ, turn the fan on high, and that wouldn't create a smell. In fact i do that a lot to extend the smell free life in between filler changes and ac foam cleaning.

I think the YouTuber has found the condition where the stink happens, high humidity in the vicinity of the ac condenser / filters. Wherever the ac is running in recirc (which the car defaults to in auto mode when high amounts of cooling is required) there's no stink. Even on stinky cars the smell eventually goes away after a minute. And in my own car I've been able to trigger the smell on drives with re-circ manually on, by turning the ac off. It smells faintly when i do that, then when ac turns on it smells bad for a short period before going away again.

One major limitation and issue in my own testing and also the YouTuber's testing is that the model 3 ac isn't only used for cabin heating and cooling, it's also used to move heat around and cool the batteries on very hot days as well. This probably causes the ac to run occasionally for unknown to us reasons during specific weather and car conditions and giving so many owners mixed results. What he observed in the video that he called Tesla's own ac drying algorithm might not even be that at all, and just a way for the car to optimize heat storage between the cabin and batteries.

 

[Maki22]

One major limitation and issue in my own testing and also the YouTuber's testing is that the model 3 ac isn't only used for cabin heating and cooling, it's also used to move heat around and cool the batteries on very hot days as well. This probably causes the ac to run occasionally for unknown to us reasons during specific weather and car conditions and giving so many owners mixed results. What he observed in the video that he called Tesla's own ac drying algorithm might not even be that at all, and just a way for the car to optimize heat storage between the cabin and batteries.

While this is true, the car can prevent the coolant and refrigerant to enter the cabin area of the AC system and only give it access to what is needed to cool down the battery or motors. It does this if you turn of the HVAC system while driving and I wold guess it also does the same if you are not in the car to not use more energy than needed.

 

[Flybyglass]

Anyone tried these VION filters by TEMAI? They seem like with he narrow band of foam facing forward the drain would not be obstructed and the filter would be held above the bottom of the channel.

https://www.amazon.com/TEMAI-Activated-Carbon-Filter-removal/dp/B08N69XWMP/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=TfRZj&content-id=amzn1.sym.35cab78c-35e3-4fc1-aab0-27eaa6c86063:amzn1.symc.e5c80209-769f-4ade-a325-2eaec14b8e0e&pf_rd_p=35cab78c-35e3-4fc1-aab0-27eaa6c86063&pf_rd_r=NZCM9P0BJZNSDVPWHAFN&pd_rd_wg=PyME0&pd_rd_r=1fb6f69e-9401-4d37-9564-30ec4f9bd495&ref_=pd_gw_ci_mcx_mr_hp_atf_m

 

[enemji]

This YouTuber is doing a mixture of great investigation and an awful job pushing unproven products (sponsored or not) in both of his model 3 ac smell videos. He's also neglecting some of the factors and operational modes of the model 3 AC which can affect his testing, which I'll get into below.

First video, he was so confident that water intake from the windshield is the source of the smell and told people to buy something to stop it, then he realizes there's more to the story and now he's telling people to elevate the filter off the mounting area even though his own very well done research has shown no water migration from the condenser drain.

His videos did uncover a lot of previously unknown details so that's great. While I'm not entirely convinced that the filters are the sole source of the smells in my own car (could be different in yours) because when the ac sinks really bad, only replacing the filters doesn't make the stink go away for more than a couple of days, if that, but ac foam cleaning +filters works for a few months.

Since the smell is almost non existent while the ac is running, and always the strongest after short stops and then consequently restart of the ac system, combined with the video evidence that no actual water would touch the ac filters, it seems to me that his theory of moist air coming in from the intake due to Tesla's anti funk strategy is only plausible and not definitive. This theory doesn't explain why cars in the desert can still stink. One anecdotal data point from my car that supports this theory is when the ac system stinks, I've been able to trigger the stink by ending a drive, sitting in the car with ac running and not stinking, turning off re-circ manually, and get a face full of stinky air.

Unfortunately a big point against this theory is that I could turn off the ac and manually turn off re-circ, turn the fan on high, and that wouldn't create a smell. In fact i do that a lot to extend the smell free life in between filler changes and ac foam cleaning.

I think the YouTuber has found the condition where the stink happens, high humidity in the vicinity of the ac condenser / filters. Wherever the ac is running in recirc (which the car defaults to in auto mode when high amounts of cooling is required) there's no stink. Even on stinky cars the smell eventually goes away after a minute. And in my own car I've been able to trigger the smell on drives with re-circ manually on, by turning the ac off. It smells faintly when i do that, then when ac turns on it smells bad for a short period before going away again.

One major limitation and issue in my own testing and also the YouTuber's testing is that the model 3 ac isn't only used for cabin heating and cooling, it's also used to move heat around and cool the batteries on very hot days as well. This probably causes the ac to run occasionally for unknown to us reasons during specific weather and car conditions and giving so many owners mixed results. What he observed in the video that he called Tesla's own ac drying algorithm might not even be that at all, and just a way for the car to optimize heat storage between the cabin and batteries.

I have removed the filter and held it up to my nose. The filters wet or dry are not stinky.

 

[enemji]

This YouTuber is doing a mixture of great investigation and an awful job pushing unproven products (sponsored or not) in both of his model 3 ac smell videos. He's also neglecting some of the factors and operational modes of the model 3 AC which can affect his testing, which I'll get into below.

First video, he was so confident that water intake from the windshield is the source of the smell and told people to buy something to stop it, then he realizes there's more to the story and now he's telling people to elevate the filter off the mounting area even though his own very well done research has shown no water migration from the condenser drain.

His videos did uncover a lot of previously unknown details so that's great. While I'm not entirely convinced that the filters are the sole source of the smells in my own car (could be different in yours) because when the ac sinks really bad, only replacing the filters doesn't make the stink go away for more than a couple of days, if that, but ac foam cleaning +filters works for a few months.

Since the smell is almost non existent while the ac is running, and always the strongest after short stops and then consequently restart of the ac system, combined with the video evidence that no actual water would touch the ac filters, it seems to me that his theory of moist air coming in from the intake due to Tesla's anti funk strategy is only plausible and not definitive. This theory doesn't explain why cars in the desert can still stink. One anecdotal data point from my car that supports this theory is when the ac system stinks, I've been able to trigger the stink by ending a drive, sitting in the car with ac running and not stinking, turning off re-circ manually, and get a face full of stinky air.

Unfortunately a big point against this theory is that I could turn off the ac and manually turn off re-circ, turn the fan on high, and that wouldn't create a smell. In fact i do that a lot to extend the smell free life in between filler changes and ac foam cleaning.

I think the YouTuber has found the condition where the stink happens, high humidity in the vicinity of the ac condenser / filters. Wherever the ac is running in recirc (which the car defaults to in auto mode when high amounts of cooling is required) there's no stink. Even on stinky cars the smell eventually goes away after a minute. And in my own car I've been able to trigger the smell on drives with re-circ manually on, by turning the ac off. It smells faintly when i do that, then when ac turns on it smells bad for a short period before going away again.

One major limitation and issue in my own testing and also the YouTuber's testing is that the model 3 ac isn't only used for cabin heating and cooling, it's also used to move heat around and cool the batteries on very hot days as well. This probably causes the ac to run occasionally for unknown to us reasons during specific weather and car conditions and giving so many owners mixed results. What he observed in the video that he called Tesla's own ac drying algorithm might not even be that at all, and just a way for the car to optimize heat storage between the cabin and batteries.

I think this somehow applies to our case. Something that does emit stink is farting into the air intake line for a short duration.

https://krwa.net/portals/krwa/lifeline/1211/82.pdf

 

[BeeGood]

I’ll add another datapoint to this fun topic.

About a month ago, I pulled the filters out, did a microban blast into the intake and onto the coils, trashed the cabin filters and rolled with just an intake filter (shown below).



Everything was wonderful for nearly a month. No smell whatsoever. Then it rained. And the smell came back. With no filters in.

It’s not the intake filter either. I have the rubber hood guards installed and that area stayed almost entirely dry with the exception of a couple drops. I checked each time I went out in the rain.



I’ve believed for years that it was the filter and I’m pretty sure now that I’ve been wrong. the filters can definitely stink, but they don’t appear to be the source of the problem. It seems like they either absorb odors or they soak up stagnant water that has already started to stink.

I did the “climate to HI for an hour” deal twice. I just turned it off and there is water dripping from the bottom. It’s been over 24 hours since it was in the rain and the exterior is completely dry. The car is clearly holding onto water somewhere inside of it.

The only thing that makes sense to me at this point is that water sits in the drain pain downstream of the coils (maybe because debris slows down the drainage?). And maybe running the fan on HI creates enough pressure to force the water out, but whatever Tesla does after each drive creates negative pressure somehow that draws water back up into the filter compartment? It’s just a guess obviously but it makes what Adam Davenport’s videos show make some sense.

So, that’s what I’m going with as a working theory (because frankly, trying things is all I have left lol). I’m going to do a coil cleaning, and make sure I clean out the box well, I got a cheap endoscope and there appears to be some debris at the bottom:



I’ll put in new (inexpensive) filters, but I’m going to wrap the bottom of the first one with either silicon tape or duct tape to see if that keeps it from soaking up drain water. I don’t want to get the “HEPA style” ones because the one I tried in the past restricted airflow way too much.

Also, leaving the metal tray that came with the intake filter in place (left side of the pic below). Hoping this along with the weather strip on the hood keeps larger pieces of debris out of the system. We’ll see how this goes.

 

[Flybyglass]

In addition to other possibilities could that small drain hole become blocked? I notice in the video he seemed to have more humidity at the bottom of the filter AFTER he installed the clip.

 

[oreobbq]

Can anyone with a refreshed M3 report if there are any obvious changes to the ventilation and filter area? Any unpleasant smell?

 

[Gyrolion]

Can anyone with a refreshed M3 report if there are any obvious changes to the ventilation and filter area? Any unpleasant smell?

My refresh model 3 does not sit in the driveway and blowing the HVAC for 15/20 minutes straight after driving. My 2019 did.
After driving the car idles for about 5 - 10 minutes, and uses about 0 to 0,15 kwh.. not sure what it is doing.. and then goes to sleep.

So my guess is something is changed.. but not sure.

I have been driving in temperature ranges from -5°C to 10°C. So no report on hotter weather yet.

I did noticed when driving while having service mode on that the HVAC system is a lot more complicated then the older model 3.

For instance, my car needed fresh air, but not to much.. it can basicly open the fresh air port for about 5% so it is 95% recirculation and 5% intake. You can see this behavior in the HVAC service settings.
The recirculation button was not blue in this instance.

 

[oreobbq]

My refresh model 3 does not sit in the driveway and blowing the HVAC for 15/20 minutes straight after driving. My 2019 did.
After driving the car idles for about 5 - 10 minutes, and uses about 0,15 kwh.. not sure what it is doing.. and then goes to sleep.

So my guess is something is changed.. but not sure.

I have been driving in temperature ranges from -5°C to 10°C. So no report on hotter weather yet.

Good to know. I imagine we may find out more in warmer conditions where the ac is running the entire time. If you have the time, perhaps you can take photos of the filter area

 

[rotarypower101]

Maybe someone could place a remote moisture sensors in the filter media, and profile the moisture content VS cycle routine while running service mode to pinpoint when/where the moisture is specifically coming from.

Be curious to know if moisture was prohibited from saturating into the filter, would that resolve other issues down the line inside the HVAC, with the assumption there are factors at play beyond Just the filter?

 

[enemji]

Maybe someone could place a remote moisture sensors in the filter media, and profile the moisture content VS cycle routine while running service mode to pinpoint when/where the moisture is specifically coming from.

Be curious to know if moisture was prohibited from saturating into the filter, would that resolve other issues down the line inside the HVAC, with the assumption there are factors at play beyond Just the filter?

I removed the filter when the stink was there. I held up the filters to my nose and there was no stink from the filters.

 

[rotarypower101]

I removed the filter when the stink was there. I held up the filters to my nose and there was no stink from the filters.

Be curious to know if moisture was prohibited from saturating into the filter, would that resolve other issues down the line inside the HVAC, with the assumption there are factors at play beyond Just the filter?

I believe you, but it is a sample size of 1, there seem to be several interpretations from many different geographic areas.

Im curious if prohibiting the moisture in the filter media would Help stop issues that develop down the line inside the HVAC?
Possibly bacteria that grow on the heat exchanger surfaces or possibly in another part of the HVAC system that has not been identified yet.

 

[enemji]

I believe you, but it is a sample size of 1, there seem to be several interpretations from many different geographic areas.

Im curious if prohibiting the moisture in the filter media would Help stop issues that develop down the line inside the HVAC?
Possibly bacteria that grow on the heat exchanger surfaces or possibly in another part of the HVAC system that has not been identified yet.

No one, and I guarantee you no one has done what I have done. They all ass-u-me-d.