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So what does the M3 mean for the MS?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by bradjc, Mar 31, 2016.

  1. bradjc

    bradjc Member

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    I'm in the market to buy now, and really would like to buy a MS, but in light of the M3 announcement would I be smart just to sit out the next few years, save my money and get an M3? The MS could be now almost 3 times the price, is it worth it? Especially now the MS won't have the same tech, updated design and updated options? I know the MS is a bigger car, more cargo space, more range, but is it now worth the extreme premium over the new price benchmark set by the mass-market M3?
     
  2. Joules Verne

    Joules Verne Member

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    I'm hoping:
    - new nose design
    - new colors: please bring that matte silver to the Model S

    Might even mean a new touch screen.

    Still no 360 camera in sight.
     
  3. calisnow

    calisnow Active Member

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    It means the Model S must be in for some significant upgrades very soon or people will stop buying them. Myself included - I have a 70D already. I have an order in for a second S. But with what Elon just promised the world I'm immediately thinking "hmmmmmmm, the Model 3 is a HELL OF A DEAL" - I can wait for the second Tesla and I'll cancel my S order.

    Tesla is not stupid - they will upgrade the S very soon.
     
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  4. Joules Verne

    Joules Verne Member

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    Regarding the price compared to the 3:

    You can wait it out and know for sure, but I bet a well optioned M3 will hit MS price territory real fast.

    Note: the base M3 will be RWD (for example).
     
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  5. Joules Verne

    Joules Verne Member

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    True that!
     
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  6. bradjc

    bradjc Member

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    Yep, agree with those. I'd like a reshuffle of options too.

    Yep, I have an order in and have a few days left to cancel. Might have to if nothing announced soon and wait for the promised price reshuffle.
     
  7. bradjc

    bradjc Member

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    I'm sure they'll get creative in making sure no-one will leave with just the stock car. But the price difference between the M3 & MS is so big that it will be a hard decision to justify the MS as is now.
     
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  8. bradjc

    bradjc Member

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    The talk of a price rise for the MS seems weird too, I think sales stalled and that was just to get a few to buy before the announcement rather than wait. I'm sure the price rise would refer to the extra to upgrade to the 100kw battery. I feel like they'll be some news soon, they have nearly 2 years of only S & X's to sell.
     
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  9. satoshi

    satoshi Electrical Engineering Student

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    And you people were worried about a P100D leak leading to an osbourne situation!? Seriously!?

    The M3 has way more potential for osbourning...
     
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  10. davidc18

    davidc18 Member

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    Just checked the cpo sight and it looks like all inventory cars with some left over cpos (perhaps Tesla really is scaling the program way back) I am also now thinking that its best to wait on getting a second MS, even a cpo as the base 3 would fit our needs for the second car. No way we will pay the delta for an MS now, so unless I can find a great deal on a used 60 or 85, my plans are now to wait for the 3 to arrive. Kind of bummed out.
     
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  11. zambono

    zambono Member

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    I've been saying it for a couple weeks now, the S is going to need a refresh if it wants to sell and the 3 is comparable in spec. It might also need a reduction in price.
     
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  12. TrevTremaine

    TrevTremaine Member

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    Now the question is when? (amongst other questions) I was going to order the S, but this really poses a question over which one. Tesla will have to move soon in order to preserve sales in the short term. I'm also wondering how this will impact resale (despite what Tesla says).

    Looks like the 3 gets LED headlights, a higher roofline (so a bit better ingress/egress), longer windscreen (a la X), probably a front bonnet release, although I like the portrait setup of the screen better - all this needs to go on the S (minus, probably the longer windscreen as it's harder to do). I do prefer a longer range and am curious to know what exactly is the change to the battery technology and whether it'll be fed back into the S.
     
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  13. TesAus

    TesAus Member

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    Pre-production prototypes of model 3 doesn't mean the features are ready to bring to the Model S as a production feature tomorrow.

    I suspect that would be especially true in relation to battery density which will be projected forward from that currently available?
     
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  14. zambono

    zambono Member

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    2 years from now if they achieve 10% gains yearly should mean 120KWh for the S something like 350 miles if everything else remains the same.
     
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  15. slevit1md

    slevit1md Member

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    The Model 3 is still 2 years out! He said end of '17, but that's probably Tesla time. And even if it does happen, it's likely to be very limited deliveries to meet the promised timeframe. I think there's a reason hardly anything was announced - because in 2 years, it's all going to change! The only reason to wait on purchasing a model S is if you can't afford it. For 35k, it is not going to have the features of a Model S. Once you start adding options, the price is probably going to raise quickly. As shown yesterday, the 3 is smaller, slower, only has one screen (no instrument cluster display), and the interior is nowhere near as nice. There is also 2 years for the Model S to continue to improve. Who knows what features could be added to the S in that time. A body refresh? Auto open and close doors? Cooled seats or overall improved seats? New displays or processors to power the displays? Improved batteries and range? Stuff no one has thought of? Any improved battery tech powering the 3 will likely make its way to the S, possibly before the 3 is released. There are so many unknowns right now and I see no reason to delay a Model S or X purchase (unless you think big changes are coming soon to the S, which is an entirely different discussion). They're just not comparable. You wouldn't debate holding off a BMW 7 series purchase to see what changes are coming to the 3 series!

    If you want to wait 2 years (or probably a lot more than that by the time you get the car), then go for it. But it shouldn't be because you want to decide between a premium vehicle and a mass market one.
     
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  16. bradjc

    bradjc Member

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    #16 bradjc, Apr 1, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2016
    You're right, and the counter argument I wanted to hear. The problem is these decisions are not always rational ones! I feel like the MS is due for a refresh, the nose cone was always the weakest link in its design IMO, now next to the rest of the line up it feels even more dated. Seems like an easy cosmetic update that would give a purchase today some longevity. My main worry with pulling the trigger is the huge price difference, and that the MS is due for a decent update, with options you mentioned. I know the M3 is years off, but this purchase isn't a need, I have a perfectly good car now and could wait. Honestly it's more about how I feel about spending twice as much today on a 4 year old car when the new shiny one was just announced. Not logical perhaps, but this is a prestige car purchase. I'm interested as a new customer, and also from Tesla's perspective to keep the sales rolling for the next few years before Model 3 deliveries.
     
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  17. mtavel

    mtavel Member

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    I feel like Tesla has learned a few lessons from the botched availability estimates for Model S and Model X. There are big differences between a new car company spinning up an automated production line for the first time (Model S) and building a new car with never-before-tried technology hurdles in a production car (Model X). They already have an automated line where they can build complex cars.... and Model 3 will not be as complex. This is an exercise in scaling up production.

    They already have some aspects of production accomplished considering they have made multiple drivable cars (I doubt they were hand-built mules), even though admittedly the interior and probably some exterior details are still on the table.

    This will not be a '2 years out' car - a 1.5 year wait for a new model with the newest technology for 1/2 the price of a stripped S is going to draw buyers away from S.

    Considering the Model S has several elements that are overdue for a refresh (or just options that should be available in vehicles of this category)- LED headlights, luxury-class seats and interior as standard, 360 degree cameras, Heads-up display, ventilated seats, etc.

    I'm really not buying what the Tesla sales reps are currently selling regarding "Get your order in now, prices are going up for no reason!". Tesla will really need to add some value and keep Model S current (compared to Model X, and competitors) to continue to attract buyers - otherwise, waiting for Model 3 is a pretty appealing decision for a lot of people.
     
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  18. Filter

    Filter Member

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    I was impressed with the Model ≡ reveal and think it will be a truly revolutionary car for the price point when it arrives.
    That said, I also delayed buying my Model S for about 1 year, waiting for new features to arrive, redesigns, etc. I even thought about purchasing a CPO to "hold me over" until it was redesigned.
    I wish I had not waited.

    I have one now and I absolutely love driving the vehicle and if optioned to your taste - you will miss nothing.
    I no longer care about having any other cars.
    Also (and it seems I am in the minority) - I actually like the design of the current S more than some of the projected designs with the new fascia. The new cars are built extremely well and my car was perfectly manufactured with no defects that I could detect. I think the model S is now a mature design for Tesla, and they have learned how to produce them at the level of more established luxury manufacturers.

    Many of the features mentioned above will likely be added to the car, but in the end I won't miss any of them. My previous vehicles have included other luxury brands, and I have been a dedicated Porsche buyer - but no more. I'm staying with Tesla.

    If the purchase is within your reach, go for the Model S now. You won't regret it. The car literally improves every single day, so you have to be at peace with the changes that occur.

    Congrats to the team at Tesla - what an amazing accomplishment!
     
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  19. brkaus

    brkaus Member

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    It will be interesting to watch. I'm in need of a car now, so not sure what to do.

    The price of the 3 is appealing. I know, lots of options will drive it up, which is not a surprise and is Ok.

    I expect they will save some goodies for the S and otherwise differentiate based on size in the long term. But of course, not too much or they hold back sales on the 3.

    They may have improved the margins on the 3 enough that they don't care if they cannibalize the S, once the 3 is actually shipping.

    I've been holding out so long, I need a new "big" vehicle and a new "small" vehicle. I can either:

    - Get a "big" car now - Model S. And wait 3-4 years on a 3 and hope my other cars survive.

    - Get a "big" car now - something else, and get a 3 when it comes out. Total would be the same price as the S.

    - Do nothing and keep nursing the cars w/ 140k miles.

    If they came out with an S with larger pack and sensor suite 2.0 I'd probably have to buy one...
     
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  20. mtavel

    mtavel Member

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    I hear you! I'm turning in my Nissan Leaf lease and will be nursing a 'beater' with 210k miles on it until I pull the trigger on an S.

    I'm going to wait until late April though, since Tesla has already said they will announce new pricing 'changes' for Model S in 'early' April. I'm not going to do anything until then.... it's not that far away.

    I wouldn't make any decisions right now - just wait it out a few weeks so you can make a decision based on all the most current information. Right now, it's a different situation to buying the S a year ago, or even 6 months ago when there was just speculation that changes might be made.... Tesla has said there will some changes announced by mid April.
     

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