Software Update 2018.21.9 75bdbc11

[Joe F]

My apologies to the group and especially @rnortman for my recent post. I reacted unprofessionally to a post I viewed as an unwarranted attack, which I regret as it was not constructive in keeping with what all posts here should be.

 

[croman]

We've all been on a long journey and our Lembas bread is running low. Hopefully we get to the Misty Mountain Top before we starve.

 

[Tintorera]

The reason I advocates keeping hands on the wheel so the car senses it, is that every time there has been an AP accident lately, it seems the driver was unattentive and was not holding the wheel (or holding it in a way the car was unable to register)

In the aftermath more warnings will come, as we see a consequence of now.
I fear also that progress can be slowed down.

Regardless of your stad in this hands on vs off discussion I think we all just get frustrated sometimes. Let’s hope the day where we can have true Hans off driving comes soon enough.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Let’s hope the day where we can have true Hans off driving comes soon enough.

Don't you mean Franz off driving?

 

[TaoJones]

The reason I advocates keeping hands on the wheel so the car senses it, is that every time there has been an AP accident lately, it seems the driver was unattentive and was not holding the wheel (or holding it in a way the car was unable to register)

In the aftermath more warnings will come, as we see a consequence of now.
I fear also that progress can be slowed down.

Regardless of your stad in this hands on vs off discussion I think we all just get frustrated sometimes. Let’s hope the day where we can have true Hans off driving comes soon enough.

Don't you mean Franz off driving?

Good stuff.

Of course, he might have meant this...

I'll see myself out...

 

[Tintorera]

Good stuff.

Of course, he might have meant this...

I'll see myself out...

Laugh all you want, but before you know it they’ll replace the nags with Hans & Franz blasting on the stereo every time you don’t hold the wheel.

 

[charliepmayer]

Follow up to post # 265: same drive, same conditions yesterday. No phantom stopping on I-10, much smoother through the twisty roads.
No updates were announced or activated, perhaps the car received something from the mother ship concerning this drive - don't know.

Autosteer chimes are still a nuisance, I hate 'em, would prefer a jiggle or something not involving a noise.
I no longer use Autosteer when I have passengers - probably not as safe, but the car no longer scares or wakes up my passengers.

If your passengers don't mind the noises, that's great, but mine do.

 

[charliepmayer]

I was contemplating drivers reading, watching movies, etc. while driving with Autosteer engaged.
If you do that on I-10 through west Texas you'll end up with shredded truck tires, dead buzzards, and dead critters under your car.
Pretty sure the rest of the world has similar road hazards that Autosteer cannot see.

I have a hard time believing people actually take their eyes off the road, but the evidence is overwhelming, so I guess they do.

Not my thing, though. Seems pretty stupid, but that's just my opinion.

 

[P85_DA]

Lol 45 pages on this thread ..I’m on 24.1 now......this was very informative , sometimes funny thread !! Take care all ..

 

[Snowstorm]

I am opposed to the 15-20 sec not because I don’t want to pay attention, but because I don’t want to jiggle or sort of steer the wheel every few seconds. For someone who Autopilot, as in AP1 cicra 2016 when I test drove it, was a major reason for buying the model S, I consider this a major regression.

Frankly, this is almost a bait and switch. During the test drive, I was able to AP no problem for minutes at a time, and now, not only is AP2 not Enhanced in any noticeable way compared to AP1, I have to sort of steer every few seconds to keep it working.

I acknowelge that this is a work in progress and accepted that AP2 eventually will be better, but this major step in the wrong direction is not what the bargain was marketed as. As the retail lingo would have it... “The product is not as described”

Tesla, please fix this.

 

[daktari]

Autopilot CAN be used without hands under some conditions, as long as some reasonable judgement is used.

I liked your post but disagree with this. In my view, it is hard to predict where the road and lane markers will change such that they can trick AP to do something unexpected. And sometimes it does, other times not. Unpredictable AP demand eyes on the road and hands on wheel.

 

[chillaban]

I liked your post but disagree with this. In my view, it is hard to predict where the road and lane markers will change such that they can trick AP to do something unexpected. And sometimes it does, other times not. Unpredictable AP demand eyes on the road and hands on wheel.

Yeah I am conflicted about this and can see it both ways. I lean towards agreeing with you in principle.

For example, if you are really in the middle of 3 lanes in your direction, straight road, no traffic.... there's very little that AP can do that you couldn't put your hands on the wheel and recover from before something bad happens. Of course you risk looking like a reckless moron / drunk in the process.

OTOH, when your hands are on the wheel, you can respond in a fraction of a second when the car does something dumb. If you aren't expecting the steering wheel to need to turn and AP suddenly starts turning the wheel, you can feel that and reflexively tighten your grip and disengage AP before the car even moves. If your hands are off the wheel, it might take you half a second to feel the sensation of movement, another half a second to look at the lane lines and determine the car is not doing the right thing, and then you'll frantically reach for the wheel, wrestle with AP, and probably overcorrect. Could that lead to loss of control? Yeah, there is a chance. Especially if you're not well practiced at this kind of intervention (most people are not!)

You're definitely safer with your hands on the wheel, purely from a reaction standpoint. When your hands are on the wheel, you have much better muscle memory of where the wheel is currently pointing and where it should've been. When your hands are not on the wheel, you lose that context and have to recalibrate yourself during the middle of a dangerous situation.


In that sense, I'm not 100% sure I like SuperCruise's hands-off approach, to be honest. In my short time driving it, I did not encounter any potentially dangerous situations such as cut-ins, road debris, possible truck lust / loss of lane lines, etc. I don't think there's anything magical about its technology that makes it inherently impossible for these things to happen. And Cadillac does not assume any more responsibility than Tesla does during operation -- it's still fundamentally a L2 ADAS.

I do think, though, I like the systems that allow mixed control rather than strict engaged/disengaged snapping. That makes it easier to keep your hands on the wheel and apply corrective torque without fear of unneeded disengagements.

 

[Joe F]

OTOH, when your hands are on the wheel, you can respond in a fraction of a second when the car does something dumb. If you aren't expecting the steering wheel to need to turn and AP suddenly starts turning the wheel, you can feel that and reflexively tighten your grip and disengage AP before the car even moves. If your hands are off the wheel, it might take you half a second to feel the sensation of movement, another half a second to look at the lane lines and determine the car is not doing the right thing, and then you'll frantically reach for the wheel, wrestle with AP, and probably overcorrect.

Careful with that line of thinking. I’ve been saying that for a while now, and as I recall was rewarded with thumbs down votes from the usual suspects.

Perhaps it’s from the last vestiges of my Philly accent, youse guys.

 

[charliepmayer]

Ok I'll try one more time before I give up on people that don't consider context before posting something:

I proposed Jiggle for Autosteer on and Autosteer off instead of the loud chimes, not for anything else.

Proposed jiggle has absolutely nothing to do with the nags.

 

[luckyj]

I've been doing more highway driving with this release. The more I drive with it, the more I don't like it. Nag Gate aside, TACC has definitely gotten annoying for me. More phantom baking than I've seen for a while - on the same exact route. And recurrence of some kind of brake pulsing where TACC thinks it needs to slow, then changes its mind and speeds up, then slows, then speeds up...does that a handful of times before it calms down. Still not sure why. AS is still generally okay, but I definitely notice on side roads that it's more erratic. The only thing that seems better is lane changes. I think I want my 2018.18.2 back.

 

[BozieBeMe2]

Ok I'll try one more time before I give up on people that don't consider context before posting something:

I proposed Jiggle for Autosteer on and Autosteer off instead of the loud chimes, not for anything else.

Proposed jiggle has absolutely nothing to do with the nags.

Actually, the electric steering is nothing more than a servo system. Just like in a robot.
When you are steering the car, the servo reads the amp load as you turn the wheel and 'Assists' you by a series of electric motor movements. Pull the wheel left and the electric motor assists that movement and vice verse, to the right.
When in AP, the computer(s) mimic your commands and turns the steering by commanding the electric motor to turn left or right.
When you intervene the computers commands, by offering a resistance in that movements, the amp loads go up in the servo and tells the AP computer to cancel the AP sequencing.
It's the same thing when a robot in the factory strikes some thing, the amp loads go up and the robot faults out.
A servo valve acts like this, +5 -5, means no movement. +6 -4, means move the valve left (slowly). +7 -3, means move a little faster to the left. And so, and so on. All of this AP steering is done by a computer commanding that electric motor..
So, as you can see, if you have a firm resistative hold, the AP will read that resistance as you are interfering and therefore, you are there and awake!
Electric steering, is really Electric Assisted Steering ( steering use to be manual, then hydraulic, now the assist is provided by an electric motor)

 

[Axael]

Anyone else noticed that while driving on AP on the Highway, the car hesitates for a second at almost every exit (slightly turning the wheel to the exit on the right for a second before getting back straight on the driving lane)?

I didn't have this on the AP1 loaner last week, but it's pretty noticeable on my AP2 car (both on 21.9).

 

[f205v]

Yes, same here.

 

[conman]

Anyone else noticed that while driving on AP on the Highway, the car hesitates for a second at almost every exit (slightly turning the wheel to the exit on the right for a second before getting back straight on the driving lane)?

I didn't have this on the AP1 loaner last week, but it's pretty noticeable on my AP2 car (both on 21.9).

Yes this used to happen months ago and went away but was reinstated on this version. If you use AP on urban roads, as I do, you will feel it tug towards every single blasted street off the side. Sigh.

 

[rpm001]

After having this build a few weeks, here are my observations. Apologies if this is all repeat news...
- Streaming radio is way less reliable for me than it used to be. It was always fairly unreliable in terms of streams starting or not. Now it's like 20% success rate. And then they just stop. And won't start again unless I reboot.
- Icons for AM/FM radio station don't load anymore. No graphics from the RDS (I think that's what it's called) are downloading. Reboot doesn't fix.
- Voice control doesn't work anymore. No matter what I do, it doesn't recognize me anymore and eventually just goes to Try Again. I wanted to start submitting bug reports for the above, but can't even do that.
- Increased nag - but honestly this bothers me the least from everything else because I guess I hold the wheel "right".