Some initial impressions

[TEG]

Now include people that don't really use computers and/or don't read online car forums...
( At that point they probably wouldn't be in the market for a Tesla )


Anyways, the T logo gives you a car info page with the odometer reading, VIN, and access to easter egg functions.

I wonder how many people would struggle to find the odometer in a Model 3. That is usually something part of the steering wheel gauge cluster, which doesn't exist in Model 3.

 

[bonnie]

Now include people that don't really use computers and/or don't read online car forums...
( At that point they probably wouldn't be in the market for a Tesla )


Anyways, the T logo gives you a car info page with the odometer reading, VIN, and access to easter egg functions.

I wonder how many people would struggle to find the odometer in a Model 3. That is usually something part of the steering wheel gauge cluster, which doesn't exist in Model 3.

The real question is not if they know what the different symbols mean the first time they look at them. It's more 'after being shown once/twice, do they know what it means'.

 

[C141medic]

The real question is not if they know what the different symbols mean the first time they look at them. It's more 'after being shown once/twice, do they know what it means'.

I could just imagine (no I can’t) my mother who’se in her late 70’s trying to figure out the center screen. Especially after she’s been shown what each of the icons are for, she’d never remember.

 

[bonnie]

I could just imagine (no I can’t) my mother who’se in her late 70’s trying to figure out the center screen. Especially after she’s been shown what each of the icons are for, she’d never remember.

Right. And she's probably not a candidate for any car with technology.

There's a huge difference between people in their 50s/60s and those in their late 70s/80s. Exceptions of course to all of this (usually health-related), but to lump 'seniors' into one bucket doesn't help when designing UIs.

 

[T34ME]

I could just imagine (no I can’t) my mother who’se in her late 70’s trying to figure out the center screen. Especially after she’s been shown what each of the icons are for, she’d never remember.

No, this is where YOU come in. Your mother spent years making you the best person you could be, and I think she was highly successful! It is up to you to spend some time with your mom to set up her profile and preferences for her. Make it so that her UI only needs 4 or 5 inputs from her. The model 3 will potentially keep her safe from other drivers and from herself. Don't dismiss her out of hand, respect her for what her abilities are. YOU can do it. What goes around, comes around.

 

[T34ME]

Now include people that don't really use computers and/or don't read online car forums...

I appreciate that you tried to walk back your comment, but you still have it wrong. More than 90% of seniors I know have a computer and are active on various fora (and the correct word is fora not forums), not necessarily auto oriented.

Spend some time with a senior, you may learn something. My two daughters say they would much rather hang out with me than friends of their age because I am more fun. When it comes to trivial pursuit they always want me on their team. And if you play trivial pursuit with your mom, she would be honored for you to select her on your team! I suspect she would be the bomb on 50's rock and roll category.

 

[int32_t]

I appreciate that you tried to walk back your comment, but you still have it wrong. More than 90% of seniors I know have a computer and are active on various fora (and the correct word is fora not forums), not necessarily auto oriented.

Spend some time with a senior, you may learn something. My two daughters say they would much rather hang out with me than friends of their age because I am more fun. When it comes to trivial pursuit they always want me on their team. And if you play trivial pursuit with your mom, she would be honored for you to select her on your team! I suspect she would be the bomb on 50's rock and roll category.

I'm under 30 so maybe I'm misinterpreting things—but my observation is that some seniors seem to take a kind of pride in not having a clue about computers and almost seem to want to remain clueless and mystified (and even sometimes frustrated) with technology so they can continue to claim ignorance. Admittedly, I suppose I do the same thing when somebody wants me to do something in a new way and I'm like, "uh-uh, no way, the current way works just fine, thank you." —so I suppose I shouldn't point fingers.

Regarding seniors on forums, some of them must be smarter than me. The first time I tried to log in to TMC after the "look and feel" update, I couldn't figure out where to put my user name and password. Those thin red lines eventually clued me in … I can't recall exactly but I think I even had to leave it and come back the next day before I figured it out.

 

[vinnie97]

Oh yea, mum's in her 80s and she is tremendously fun-loving as well as tech-oriented, though I get frustrated trying to assist at times (it's a lesson in patience).

 

[TEG]

Well maybe I went too far suggesting using an age based group. It was just a question more about sub-groups who may be less familiar with smart-phone symbols.

Perhaps I should have just said "people who never owned a smart-phone" and left it at that...

By the way, my dad, in his 80s, still driving, has never owned a smart phone... He doesn't use credit cards either.

At first he was interested in Tesla, but said he lost interest when he saw they never released a proper convertible.
The removable top on the new Roadster doesn't interest him either.
He said he wants his next (possibly last) car to be a convertible, hopefully with a fold-able metal roof mechanism.


By the way, the Model 3 I borrowed is returned to its' owner, so no more observations from me until I get mine.

 

[vinnie97]

^Likewise, my pop in his 80s is happy as a pig in you know what with his flip phone.

Thanks for all the shares...I guess we first day, nonowner reservationists have at the minimum 2 months to go.

 

[gregincal]

My dad is in his 80s, has an iPhone and provides tech support to all his friends. He would have zero problems with the Model 3.

 

[Twiglett]

Sorry, laughing.

Quick story: I was in a meeting at Intel where some *younger than us* consultants were presenting their findings regarding aging and technology. They informed us that more older adults were comfortable using smart phones because 'their caregivers are probably teaching them'. (Note we were talking 55 and over.)

Dead silence in the room - then Intel's CTO says, 'Or maybe we're comfortable using smart phones because we designed them and invented the technology.'

Mic drop.

Wow - I'm in that age group now. I'd better start looking for a "caregiver" just in case.

 

[TEG]

Some random "after" thoughts:

I miss it already. Back to my clunky old car for now.

The steering wheel is really beefy (in a good way).
The steering wheel is a bit small (in a good way).
Outward/frontward visibility is fantastic.
Instant responsiveness (immediate torque on demand) is a primary reason why I prefer this car over any ICE car. Regen braking is a superior driving experience too.
I got used to no steering wheel dashboard quickly. The only surprise was at night was my instinct to think I left the headlights off because there was no glow in front of the steering wheel.
The car just feels really well designed with many thoughtful touches. It seems like all the door openings, seating heights, angles, etc, were just right. My arms just rest on the arm rests comfortably, cupholders and cubbies in the right places, etc.
It is clear that they really poured over the details on this car to get it just right. The driver's seat is really comfortable. Full sized adults fit in the back reasonably.
The turn signal stalks do seem odd to me. I have never had a car where you press again in the same direction to turn it back off. All my other cars were sort of old style pure mechanical signal lever. I am sure I will get used to the new mechanism, just not what I am used to from older Japanese cars.

I really wanted to embrace the "phone as key" but it didn't work out due to phone staying too close to the car sometimes, and car not always recognizing the phone right away.
For now, I plan to leave the auto lock / unlock features disabled on my Model 3. I will try the door handle to unlock, and if it doesn't work, will hold my wallet up to the pillar (cardkey can be recognized through the wallet.)
I will now know to step on the brake pedal within 15 seconds of opening the door to turn the car "on". It wasn't obvious at first that I need to hurry to do that. If you wait too long you may have to tap the card on the console to start.
When I leave the car, I plan to open the door first, then press the tiny lock button on the screen, then exit the car. (It wasn't obvious at first that I needed to open the door first to make this procedure possible.)

I really like the sound system and that is important to me as I generally listen to music whenever I drive.
The sound quality from USB flash drive is fantastic, but it feels like the car treats the USB flash as a secondary music source. I found it kept going back to playing Bluetooth music off of my phone which isn't what I wanted.
I considered disabling Bluetooth (since I may not use the "phone as key", and don't need phone music playback), but realized I must have Bluetooth on for phone calls to be linked to the car audio.

Since I don't have the car anymore to check, I can't double-check now, but I recall something else that seemed odd...
When I paired my phone to the car it gave me the option to provide contacts and call history to the car. I declined since it wasn't my car, and I didn't want my phone contacts in someone else's car.
But later, when I was trying all the indicator/buttons at the top of the screen, and hit the Bluetooth button it showed the slider set to "share contacts". Was it trying again to get me to share my phone contacts with the car?
It felt like an "oh no!" moment where the car was trying to do something I didn't want, like when it keeps going back to playing music from my phone when that wasn't what I was playing last.
I look forward to firmware updates improving the way the car interacts with phone via Bluetooth, and how it handles music playback from the thumb/flash drive.

 

[Twiglett]

Some random "after" thoughts:

I miss it already. Back to my clunky old car for now.

The steering wheel is really beefy (in a good way).
The steering wheel is a bit small (in a good way).
Outward/frontward visibility is fantastic.
Instant responsiveness (immediate torque on demand) is a primary reason why I prefer this car over any ICE car. Regen braking is a superior driving experience too.
I got used to no steering wheel dashboard quickly. The only surprise was at night was my instinct to think I left the headlights off because there was no glow in front of the steering wheel.
The car just feels really well designed with many thoughtful touches. It seems like all the door openings, seating heights, angles, etc, were just right. My arms just rest on the arm rests comfortably, cupholders and cubbies in the right places, etc.
It is clear that they really poured over the details on this car to get it just right. The driver's seat is really comfortable. Full sized adults fit in the back reasonably.
The turn signal stalks do seem odd to me. I have never had a car where you press again in the same direction to turn it back off. All my other cars were sort of old style pure mechanical signal lever. I am sure I will get use to the new mechanism, just not what I am used to from older Japanese cars.

I really wanted to embrace the "phone as key" but it didn't work out due to phone staying too close to the car sometimes, and car not always recognizing the phone right away.
For now, I plan to leave the auto lock / unlock features disabled on my Model 3. I will try the door handle to unlock, and if it doesn't work, will hold my wallet up to the pillar (cardkey can be recognized through the wallet.)
I will now know to step on the brake pedal within 15 seconds of opening the door to turn the car "on". It wasn't obvious at first that I need to hurry to do that. If you wait too long you may have to tap the card on the console to start.
When I leave the car, I plan to open the door first, then press the tiny lock button on the screen, then exit the car. (It wasn't obvious at first that I needed to open the door first to make this procedure possible.)

I really like the sound system and that is important to me as I generally listen to music whenever I drive.
The sound quality from USB flash drive is fantastic, but it feels like the car treats the USB flash as a secondary music source. I found it kept going back to playing Bluetooth music off of my phone which isn't what I wanted.
I considered disabling Bluetooth (since I may not use the "phone as key", and don't need phone music playback), but realized I must have Bluetooth on for phone calls to be linked to the car audio.

Since I don't have the car anymore to check, I can't double-check now, but I recall something else that seemed odd...
When I paired my phone to the car it gave me the option to provide contacts and call history to the car. I declined since it wasn't my car, and I didn't want my phone contacts in someone else's car.
But later, when I was trying all the indicator/buttons at the top of the screen, and hit the Bluetooth button it showed the slider set to "share contacts". Was it trying again to get me to share my phone contacts with the car?
It felt like an "oh no!" moment where the car was trying to do something I didn't want, like when it keeps going back to playing music from my phone when that wasn't what I was playing last.
I look forward to firmware updates improving the way the car interacts with phone via Bluetooth, and how it handles music playback from the thumb/flash drive.

sorry for your loss
it's been an informative set of posts though, thank you.

 

[MP3Mike]

I now know I can disable "walk up unlock" and just let the car see my phone when I press the door handle to unlock.

I wonder what kind of security problem this has. As it was the car unlocked when you were fairly far away and it was visible because the mirrors unfolded. With "walk up unlock" disabled, how far away do you have to have your phone before it won't just unlock for anyone walking by that tries your door handle?

 

[mongo]

I wonder what kind of security problem this has. As it was the car unlocked when you were fairly far away and it was visible because the mirrors unfolded. With "walk up unlock" disabled, how far away do you have to have your phone before it won't just unlock for anyone walking by that tries your door handle?

Ideally (I know I know), the system uses RSSI (received signal strength indicator) changes to evaluate walking toward vs walking away, along with a "close enough" strength level.

 

[TEG]

I wonder what kind of security problem this has. As it was the car unlocked when you were fairly far away and it was visible because the mirrors unfolded. With "walk up unlock" disabled, how far away do you have to have your phone before it won't just unlock for anyone walking by that tries your door handle?

Yeah, seems like a valid concern. Although (with walk-up-unlock) the mirrors unfolding and lights flashing announce to those nearby that the car is now unlocked.
With walk-up-unlock NOT enabled, the mirrors don't unfold until you actually press the door handle. So someone would have to be trying the door handles with no prompting, which seems far less likely.

Hopefully they fine tune it to only unlock when the phone is really close... I am guessing they are trying to minimize "polling interval" to reduce vampire drain so may need to activate sooner to increase the chances that the car is actually unlocked when you get next to it.
In some ways it seems like phone-as-bluetooth-key isn't as optimized for this type of situation as the dedicated fob mechanisms that many other cars are using.

I wonder if the bluetooth scan requires a lot more hardware in the car to be awake to authenticate the phone connection... (?) I bet the fob mechanisms are a low power receiver circuit that could send "wake up" commands to the car when the fob requests it. Maybe "pull model" vs "push model" type issues?

 

[gregincal]

Ideally (I know I know), the system uses RSSI (received signal strength indicator) changes to evaluate walking toward vs walking away, along with a "close enough" strength level.

I believe it does do something like that, however it obviously isn't working correctly for some people since the car seems to unlock when they are at a distance (it doesn't ever do that for me).

 

[TEG]

I assume it is a difficult problem given that there are a variety of different phones (with different Bluetooth behaviors) that people are trying to use for this. Although, I think iPhone 6+ would be a fairly common one.

 

[mongo]

I believe it does do something like that, however it obviously isn't working correctly for some people since the car seems to unlock when they are at a distance (it doesn't ever do that for me).

I made a Bluetooth low energy passive walk up unlock system recently. The signal strength is not the greatest for localization, but it was fairly good for a first pass demo. Body and environment effects can create false trends. It wasn't beacon based, but the RF side should be similar.

The best system for preventing unauthorized user access was one I worked on over a decade ago. LF+RKE passive entry triggered by the door handle. Used hand tuned assembly code to validate the encrypted challenge/response so as to be transparent to the user.