Speed limit info is comically bad on AP2 / AP2.5, possible to update?

[drewg123]

One of the things that I've noticed on my new MX is that the speed limit information presented to me on the IC is very often incorrect. In some cases, it is presenting an old speed limit that was changed months or years ago. In the comical cases, it will also sometimes pick up on much lower speed limits (35mph) for side roads when I'm on the interstate (70mph). This is a PITA, because it prevents me from using the over-speed warning chime, as that chime will wake up passengers at random times due to this issue.

Although we were told on our test drive that the AP hardware reads the speed limit signs, my understanding is that is only applicable for AP1. I believe that AP2/2.5 are using some kind of database rather than reading the signs. I assume that it must be using the same Garmin database that is used for navigation.

Is there any way to update this information? Either manually just for my car, or by somehow crowd-sourcing speed limits and updating the stale information that Tesla is buying from somebody? I figure with all the AP1 cars on the road, they should be able to find the mis-matches between AP1 read signs and Garmin data and update that database. Heck. I bet Garmin would pay for that data for their other products. I wonder why they've never tried? Surely correct speed limit info will be required for FSD. The pessimist in me sees that as a sign of how far away we are from FSD.

Unless... is speed limit sign reading an AP2 / 2.5 feature that is delayed like rain-sensing wipers? If that's the case, I can imagine they don't want to spend engineering time improving a temporary work around, and would rather spend the engineering time on the real fix.

 

[andrewket]

At present, I don’t believe AP2/2.5 (which is actually called hw3 internally) has the ability to read signs. The indicated speed is, as you said, coming from the internally stored map data. There is no way for the consumer to update this data.

Tesla is supposedly planing to replace the navigon software with their own based on a few open source projects. Additionally, the AP software is still being developed, albeit much slower than anticipated, both by us and Tesla. In time AP2 should be able to read signs. Between the three (new nav software, new source data, and AP development) this issue will be solved. Unfortunately I don’t think there is anything we can do right now other than wait and be patient.

 

[d21mike]

I am in Southern California on AP2.5 and it seems to be pretty accurate. So maybe "comically bad" in some areas and not everywhere as your thread suggests. For me stop signs and traffic light detection is my high priority. But if they can do that they should be able to read the speed limit signs as well.

 

[boonedocks]

Speed limits on AP2 / AP2.5 are indeed provided by TomTom and not read by the cameras for use at all. In Atlanta there has been major construction on 85N for almost a year. My AP1 would respond to any speed limit changes INCLUDING the dynamic speed limit signs on 285 that adjust with traffic. AP2 is using speed limit data from years ago in the same places

 

[idealsol]

I see numerous wrong speeds all the time locally
I have one road I frequent that used to be correctly identified at 55 mph, now it reads 40

 

[speedy]

It must be area dependent, as it is very accurate where I am (North East US). I can pass a new speed limit sign and see the limit change on the display almost as I pass it.

 

[DriverOne]

For me in Texas, 50% of places it's 100% accurate (changes as soon as I drive by a sign), but 50% of the time it is around 80% accurate (e.g. shows 65mph instead of 55mph).

It's accurate enough for TomTom to produce quickest routing information, but unreliable enough to show on the Tesla's dash, IMHO.

Have not tried using it as a speeding excuse with a police officer.

 

[Big John]

I had a BMW i3 before my MX (Snowball) and it read speed limit signs flawlessly. That feature on the i3 really worked well (there were a lot of features that did not work well). It was amazing the way it read construction and school zones. Anywhere there was a Speed limit sign, it would pick it up. Never saw it make a goof in 29K miles. Snowball on the other hand frequently has wrong SL and I live in so cal. They seem to always be slower. It is perplexing why the software seem dated for such an advanced car.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Unless... is speed limit sign reading an AP2 / 2.5 feature that is delayed like rain-sensing wipers? If that's the case, I can imagine they don't want to spend engineering time improving a temporary work around, and would rather spend the engineering time on the real fix.

Not only is the speed limit sign reading delayed, Tesla also swapped to an arguably worse (cheaper?) speed limit database mid-2017. Now it constantly shows the wrong speed limits for me, while early 2017 it was at least workable.

 

[jflaplante]

I have a model X75D with HW2.5. There are some national roads that I drive on for hundreds of kilometers that are not recognized by internal navigation and AP is limited to 70km/h (45mph) even if they are 90kmh (55mph) roads. I cross dozens of speed limit signs that are clearly visible and none of them are 'read' by the car. So yes, I tend to agree that it relies on a database and if the road you're traveling on is not in it OR you 4g connection is bad to lookup into said database, you're screwed.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

So yes, I tend to agree that it relies on a database and if the road you're traveling on is not in it OR you 4g connection is bad to lookup into said database, you're screwed.

In my case the new database consistently has the wrong numbers - erring too high, no less. The old database was better.

 

[kevins13]

I noticed this as well with my car and also noted that the navigation database does not have some of the new roads opened within the last few years (for example the 99 Tollway between US290 and US59/I69 in North Houston). Does anyone have any information on how frequently (if ever) the TomTom/Gamin/Navigon data is refreshed? For a car that receives regular software updates for many other features which are far more complex than updating a map database, this is really disappointing. Nothing worse than using AP on a road with 70 MPH speed limit and then having the navigation suddenly reroute you because it does not recognize the new road you are on. Granted I learned my lesson after the first rapid deceleration and just turned off the navigation.

Granted, I still love everything else about my car in the short time I had it so while I will bitch about this nuisance, I am not going to stop driving it!

 

[Horizontal8]

Quick question. How do you know if you have HW 2.0 or HW 2.5? I'm taking delivery of my MX next week. Is it based on the build date?

 

[drewg123]

Quick question. How do you know if you have HW 2.0 or HW 2.5? I'm taking delivery of my MX next week. Is it based on the build date?

Before I bought, when there was still a URL for the car's vin, (eg, Inventory | Tesla...........), you could use the web browser's element inspector to look at the image of the car. In the javascript there will be a line with all the options. You're looking for APH3, which is AP2.5.

I don't know how to find that information after that URL is gone though. If anybody does, I'd appreciate it. I could have used it earlier, when I discovered they forgot the tow package on my car. Luckily, they fessed up and agreed that my car was one of the ones that should have had it but didn't.

 

[speedy]

I don't know how to find that information after that URL is gone though. If anybody does, I'd appreciate it.

The 'as-built' options are still available via the Tesla API. If you subscribe to a service like TeslaFi, they display the option codes for you in your settings screen. If you are more technical, you can pull it yourself via Tim Dorr's JSON API site

 

[tmxninja]

The manual says the front camera reads speed limit signs, but I having the same issue. I can't use autopilot in some areas because of this. See picture of manual's explanation of how it's supposed to work in theory.

 

[TaoJones]

Today, only AP1 recognizes and reacts to speed limit signs, via the single forward camera.

AP2 absolutely has never, and does not *at this time* react to speed limit signs. It relies upon error-prone speed limit info. This creates problematic scenarios when TACC and AS are engaged.

A future best solution seemingly would be to marry the two approaches, such that real-time reaction occurs *and* there's a database backup for those relatively rare occasions when there's a big truck between your car and the next different speed limit sign.

 

[d21mike]

The 'as-built' options are still available via the Tesla API. If you subscribe to a service like TeslaFi, they display the option codes for you in your settings screen. If you are more technical, you can pull it yourself via Tim Dorr's JSON API site

I had not notice that before. Would be nice if they (TeslaFI) could have all of the code descriptions in the application (or at least what they can figure out) and display the description. I found some by looking at what others have found out.

 

[d21mike]

The manual says the front camera reads speed limit signs, but I having the same issue. I can't use autopilot in some areas because of this. See picture of manual's explanation of how it's supposed to work in theory.

That was interesting. Since only AP1 supports it I wonder if that description is accurate for AP1 Cars. Interesting that you can manually enter a arbitrary speed limit. I wonder where? Like pull over to the sign and you have the location and can just set it in a menu?

 

[Xtek]

I take 520 in Seattle into work every day. I usually will be running AP as it does well and there's an overpass when I go under it thinks I'm on and breaks HARD to get down to 35 MPH. So much fun.