Staggering amount of issues found at/after delivery. Considering returning the car.

[voip-ninja]

Totally agree with your post with the exception of the above. Did the 2 day satisfaction guarantee or your money back go out the window?

I don't know, can you point to anyone who has noticed problems after delivery and were able to return the car? Were they able to bring a car back and tell Tesla they want a new one and get Tesla to honor this? There's a good chance Tesla will return $$ and say "bye" in such situations.

Remember also that you have to agree to arbitration if you want to take the car home.

I still stand by the statement that once you accept delivery and Tesla has your money your options are greatly reduced.

 

[Runt8]

I don't know, can you point to anyone who has noticed problems after delivery and were able to return the car? Were they able to bring a car back and tell Tesla they want a new one and get Tesla to honor this? There's a good chance Tesla will return $$ and say "bye" in such situations.

Remember also that you have to agree to arbitration if you want to take the car home.

I still stand by the statement that once you accept delivery and Tesla has your money your options are greatly reduced.

I would say your options are the same, just the number of hoops you have to jump through increase.

 

[notAnExpert]

Quick update: All calls this morning to their delivery team went to voicemail. No emails were ever returned. I don't even care about the car now. Right now my only fear is them not answering the phone/email today and keeps delaying so I won't get my money back because the two-day return window ends today/tomorrow. Sent message using the account support option (with exec escalation). No response so far.

So at this point what are my options? Because once the window closes I don't know they will process the return. Take them to court? Attorney General's Office? Drive 200 miles there again today and just dump the car there?

By the way, the delivery center is Cleveland-Lyndhurst. Do yourselves a favor and stay away from that place.

fnce_prof,
Not taking your car back would be a PR nightmare for Tesla. You are doing all the right things. Once you reach someone a little up in the ladder, I'm pretty sure they will want to take it back and not let this add more fuel to the negative press.

Perhaps you have done this already, but if you haven't, can you WRITE a letter clearly stating that you want to return the car according to Tesla's published policy (attaching that letter from Tesla that says you can return within two days)? Email that to all the relevant people in Tesla customer service, and send a printed version too if you have their address.

If Tesla ever claims that you didn't initiate the return within two days, written letters are easier as evidence than quoting voicemails and conversations.

Good luck. What a hassle! But I think things will end fine.

btw, sorry to put doubts in your head. Do you really want to own a car with a service center 200 miles away from you? Wouldn't it be too much hassle to get things fixed if something goes wrong during ownership?

 

[MXWing]

@fnce_prof - example is extreme so I wanted to mention my own story to bring some balance.

I paid and took ownership without even looking at the car. I'm actually a detailed and due diligence person but they already earned my lifetime business.

After all the paperwork was out of the way, I inspected the car, found some minor paint issues and scheduled a date to drop it off to have it looked at. Paint issues were corrected to my satisfaction and I got an S loaner to use for two weeks.

I didn't have hesitation with trusting Tesla because they have been great to me in the past and I'm going to depend on them for the next 8 years to cover my battery.

Lifelong customer as Tesla uncorked my December 2016 Model X shaving more than a second off my 0-60. They charged me zero.

+ Free performance uncork shaving over a second off 0-60 that would typically cost 5 digits to upgrade through third party or trim upgrades from manufacturer.
+ Model S loaner to use for the day while working on my Model X

GM, Nissan, BMW, Porsche haven't gotten to offering complementary performance enhancements yet, but when they do, surely it will be cheaper and better than Tesla!

ANY OTHER auto's answer is - BUY THE NEW MODEL aka tough *sugar*.

I have many positive stories but this is just one of them.

I would say your options are the same, just the number of hoops you have to jump through increase.

Absolutely this. I believe Tesla will do the right thing in the end. If money isn't exchanged, its easy to just walk away and place a new order, etc.

 

[fnce_prof]

btw, sorry to put doubts in your head. Do you really want to own a car with a service center 200 miles away from you? Wouldn't it be too much hassle to get things fixed if something goes wrong during ownership?

@fnce_prof - example is extreme so I wanted to mention my own story to bring some balance.
+ Free performance uncork shaving over a second off 0-60 that would typically cost 5 digits to upgrade through third party or trim upgrades from manufacturer.
+ Model S loaner to use for the day while working on my Model X

Well that's certainly not what I received. First of all I was under the impression from the forum that the Tesla service is excellent and goes above and beyond other manufacturers. In my case the service is worse than a used car dealership.

Example: I was told at one option is to leave the car there to be fixed. And while they had three loaner cars parked outside, they said they were all taken and no loaners were available. Then they called Enterprise to hook me up with a (their exact words) "premium full-size car rental comparable with a Tesla Model 3."

But here's the catch. They do the reservation and YOU need to call Enterprise to confirm. So I did, and guess what car they had reserved?

A Toyota Corolla. Love it. That must be of comparable if not higher quality than the model 3 in their minds. The Enterprise agent told me what the delivery guy said (premium car rental) was completely bullshit and they just book you on the first available car whatever that is. I have bought and serviced multiple cars at MB and BMW and if the staff there pulled a crap like this they would be fired on the spot.

And of course when I went to find the delivery guy to confirm this he's nowhere to be found (maybe doing another delivery as such an important busy person). I finally got a manager and hence the subsequent drama with the service "concern" ticket and the complete lack of communication.

 

[MXWing]

Well that's certainly not what I received. First of all I was under the impression from the forum that the Tesla service is excellent and goes above and beyond other manufacturers. In my case the service is worse than a used car dealership.

Example: I was told at one option is to leave the car there to be fixed. And while they had three loaner cars parked outside, they said they were all taken and no loaners were available. Then they called Enterprise to hook me up with a (their exact words) "premium full-size car rental comparable with a Tesla Model 3."

But here's the catch. They do the reservation and YOU need to call Enterprise to confirm. So I did, and guess what car they had reserved?

A Toyota Corolla. Love it. That must be of comparable if not higher quality than the model 3 in their minds. The Enterprise agent told me what the delivery guy said (premium car rental) was completely bullshit and they just book you on the first available car whatever that is. I have bought and serviced multiple cars at MB and BMW and if the staff there pulled a crap like this they would be fired on the spot.

And of course when I went to find the delivery guy to confirm this he's nowhere to be found (maybe doing another delivery as such an important busy person). I finally got a manager and hence the subsequent drama with the service "concern" ticket and the complete lack of communication.

I have half a dozen personal business cards and direct phone numbers for my SC (supposedly the worst SC in the country by reputation????!). I am appalled you got treated how you did.

You need to be talking to adults.. 20 somethings don't count.

Tip: Insist to be placed on a waiting list for the Tesla loaner. You can swap cars when the loaner is in. Frankly, someone else should be bumped given your ridiculous circumstances.

 

[b_ack51]

Sucks to see man. The Columbus location sounds way better than Cleveland. Like poster above I have all the info for every worker in the service center.

 

[fnce_prof]

Sucks to see man. The Columbus location sounds way better than Cleveland. Like poster above I have all the info for every worker in the service center.

Well my choice was home delivery or Cleveland. I made the mistake of choosing Cleveland cuz I heard the Tesla delivery experience is great. I strongly advise everyone not to make that mistake.

 

[Darren Donovan]

If Tesla doesn't rectify the problem (refund your money, or get you another new car ASAP with no issues), you'll need to take this story to the media.

 

[neroden]

Quick update: All calls this morning to their delivery team went to voicemail. No emails were ever returned. I don't even care about the car now. Right now my only fear is them not answering the phone/email today and keeps delaying so I won't get my money back because the two-day return window ends today/tomorrow. Sent message using the account support option (with exec escalation). No response so far.

So at this point what are my options? Because once the window closes I don't know they will process the return. Take them to court? Attorney General's Office? Drive 200 miles there again today and just dump the car there?

Personally, I'd drive the 200 miles, dump the car, and be prepared with five copies of a signed letter (plus a copy of the printout of the 2-day return guarantee) explaining that you are returning the car, that it is defective, and that you want your money back immediately. First copy to the first person you talk to, second copy to the manager, third copy gets certified-mailed to Tesla HQ later, fourth gets certified-mailed to the local delivery center later.

If the check hasn't cleared yet and you still have the information on it, I would also stop at the bank and issue a stop-payment order on the cashier's check (yes, this is a thing).

You'll also want to send in your rejection of arbitration at the same time.

Meanwhile, follow up at Tesla HQ and tell them that executive escalation has not had any effect and you expect your money back.

If you don't get your money back in a couple of weeks, then you get a lawyer.

By the way, the delivery center is Cleveland-Lyndhurst. Do yourselves a favor and stay away from that place.

You should never have given them the check before inspection. That's a hard no, always.

The main issue is that they gave misleading statements that didn't even suggest this is an option. The first document you sign before even heading out to examine the car is the delivery sheet. They told me everyone has to sign all of that BEFORE they can even examine the car and made it sound like it's the legal requirement. I'm sure I'm not the only one they fooled.

That's technically known as "fraud" and they can be imprisoned for it.

 

[neroden]

I also finally got in touch with a much nicer manager there, so hopefully we are within the 2-day return window. I'll see how soon we could get this resolved.

You still need to make sure there is a *dated* statement from you in email or paper mail stating that you are returning the car within the 2-day window. I hope the manager is being nice, but he could also be stringing you along until time expires, so you get proof that you've demanded that they accept the return before the 2-day window is over.

 

[beachbum77]

Well I was given completely misleading information then. Here's my delivery experience:

1. I was greeted by an agent named "X" (the card he gave me had only the generic SC name on it; withholding his name for now as I'm escalating this to the executive level). His first words were "I have another delivery at XX. So we have 5 minutes to do the paperwork in the delivery bay, and we are gonna move your car out there to the lot." Very professional indeed.
2. He insisted that I have to give him the cashier's check BEFORE inspecting the car and doing any paperwork. I'm serious. He said before any paperwork is done, I have to give Tesla the check. I believed him so I did. Well, I'm getting that money back one way (new car, new SC) or another (refund).
3. When I started noticing issues right away, he said all of them are "within spec" even when I pointed to him that the cars in the lot and the demo car didn't have these issues. Then when I started to compare the cars in the lot he said "these are customer cars and you are not allowed to examine them."
4. Then he said "these cars all have variances and yours just happen to be that way."
5. When I insisted, he brought a detailer named "Y" (no card) who buffed out one scratch. He then refused to work on the car and pointed me to a service agent.
6. Then the golden words from "X":

"This isn't a Model X man. It's a mass produced car. You just gotta live with 'em."

Executive escalation here we go!

Just return the car and get another VIN. Do not delay or you could end up paying sales tax on both cars.

 

[MXWing]

You still need to make sure there is a *dated* statement from you in email or paper mail stating that you are returning the car within the 2-day window. I hope the manager is being nice, but he could also be stringing you along until time expires, so you get proof that you've demanded that they accept the return before the 2-day window is over.

I agree with your recommended actions as a CYA however I don’t think there is malice intended on Tesla’s part.

Miscommunication and one bad person shouldn’t speak for the rep of the entire organization.

There are bears watching who will happily spin worst possible viewpoints.

Screenshots and direct quotables from our own over the top responses just makes it easy.

There wasn’t 72 hours of radio silence or anything from Tesla. I’m sure a cell phone number was exchanged and they are working through it.

 

[fnce_prof]

Here's an update:

I have emailed both [email protected], and per @MXWing 's suggestions [email protected]. I used my official work email so there will be a timestamp of receipt. So hopefully there's a record of me requesting the return within the 2-day return window. In the email I obviously noted the problems and both the delivery date (yesterday) and today's date.

"This would serve as the official notice of my intent to return the car for replacement or refund per your two-day satisfaction guarantee. The delivery was yesterday, Sep 13, 2018, and today is Sep 14, 2018."

Certified letters will follow shortly as well. Now I'm gonna have to work with insurance to sort out what to do next. Obviously no one at the insurance company has seen a case like this before.

 

[neroden]

Keep the insurance on the car until Tesla physically gets the car back; if it's damaged due to a freak accident in your driveway, you'll want it to be insured (otherwise Tesla might try to collect the damage from you). Unlikely scenario but not worth risking.

You've done the necessary work to get a date on your request for a replacement or refund. You are not in as much of a hurry now. Just keep documenting your remaining phone calls & emails until you get the car returned and get either a refund or a replacement.

 

[ivengo]

fnce_prof I'm really sorry to hear about your experience.
From my experience I used Cleveland service center before and they went over and beyond in the quality of their service and willingness to help me in Michigan.
I even was given a personal cell phone number by a service manager in that service center in case if I need any issues to be resolved related to the car.
Tesla Mobile mechanics in Michigan are really great as well.

Hope that your case is a one time outlier and the case would be resolved to your full satisfaction.

 

[fnce_prof]

fnce_prof I'm really sorry to hear about your experience.
From my experience I used Cleveland service center before and they went over and beyond in the quality of their service and willingness to help me in Michigan.
I even was given a personal cell phone number by a service manager in that service center in case if I need any issues to be resolved related to the car.
Tesla Mobile mechanics in Michigan are really great as well.

Hope that your case is a one time outlier and the case would be resolved to your full satisfaction.

Thanks. Maybe they lost/hired some new people because at least the detail guy there was terrible. See the attached picture. There was a scratch there that we found at delivery. He took it in and buffed it and that's the result! Well my 15-year-old cousin could have done a better job than that.

Better bring a strong flashlight if your car is ever getting detailed there.

 

[SoCalGuy]

There are bears watching who will happily spin worst possible viewpoints.

Its not our job as customers to worry or fret about the wellbeing of a $35B company - our focus is on making sure the product we bought with our hard earned money meets some minimum reasonable standard of quality. This is not the Roadster. It's not the Model S or X. This is a 500,000 unit per year mass market vehicle and it's time for the company to start acting appropriately.

When I bought my first Fisker, they had all sorts of issues with the car not being ready or needing a fix of this or that. I expected some of those customer pains because it was a low volume, brand new car from a brand new company (ala Tesla's first Roadster). But I'll say that their customer service through most of that was superb (e.g. arranging black car airport pickups, paying for lunch while car was being serviced, tossing in freebies like 3M Crystalline tint and a premium outdoor car cover etc).

If Tesla is going to make the transition to a real non-niche mass market automaker they've got to go above and beyond with service for the M3. They need to have a customer service czar for situations just like this one so that the customer doesn't have to deal with hours and hours of headache and stress (I think that was Jerome for Model S as I have friends who escalated things directly to Jerome). Never have I had any hours long issues or stress dealing with Lexus or Audi or BMW or Honda with past cars.

 

[MXWing]

Its not our job as customers to worry or fret about the wellbeing of a $35B company - our focus is on making sure the product we bought with our hard earned money meets some minimum reasonable standard of quality. This is not the Roadster. It's not the Model S or X. This is a 500,000 unit per year mass market vehicle and it's time for the company to start acting appropriately.

When I bought my first Fisker, they had all sorts of issues with the car not being ready or needing a fix of this or that. I expected some of those customer pains because it was a low volume, brand new car from a brand new company (ala Tesla's first Roadster). But I'll say that their customer service through most of that was superb (e.g. arranging black car airport pickups, paying for lunch while car was being serviced, tossing in freebies like 3M Crystalline tint and a premium outdoor car cover etc).

If Tesla is going to make the transition to a real non-niche mass market automaker they've got to go above and beyond with service for the M3. They need to have a customer service czar for situations just like this one so that the customer doesn't have to deal with hours and hours of headache and stress (I think that was Jerome for Model S as I have friends who escalated things directly to Jerome). Never have I had any hours long issues or stress dealing with Lexus or Audi or BMW or Honda with past cars.

It becomes your concern when there is no one to warranty your battery in year 7.

You are acting as if they don’t care when it’s completely obvious one is going to have issues when scaling deliveries from 5000 a year to 5000 per week.

For how awesome Fisker is, I don’t see you buying another one did you?

Free lunch, free window tint, free foot massages, etc are not actually free. Nothing is free.

Tesla’s problem is their demand. I think a great many people would rather have a non perfect car now than wait next year for a “perfect car”. Anyone and everyone can refuse delivery of a Tesla.

I find it interesting that everyone who pursues Tesla to the point of getting a buyback due to lemon laws - guess what they do? Buy another Tesla!

There’s 30,000 people at Tesla and the problems are obvious I assure you.

Knowing there is a problem and instantly fixing that problem are two different things.

Are you going to go buy another Lexus or Audi and put your money where your mouth is?

Or drive a Tesla with one hand and bitch about them incessantly with the other?

I am not saying give them a 100 percent either. It’s keeping perspective and looking at the big picture.

If you can’t trust them with your bumper scratch, you can’t trust them with your battery. Best you get another car.

OP situation is totally different than my own so I recommend a heavier response.

 

[SoCalGuy]

For how awesome Fisker is, I don’t see you buying another one did you?

Actually I do own two Fiskers.

Free lunch, free window tint, free foot massages, etc are not actually free. Nothing is free.

Huh? Not sure what you're getting at here.

Tesla’s problem is their demand. I think a great many people would rather have a non perfect car now than wait next year for a “perfect car”. Anyone and everyone can refuse delivery of a Tesla.

Um, people are settling for their imperfect Model 3s now because they come with a $3750 discount in the way of a federal tax credit. I would have been happy to wait until Q1 if the price were the same.

Are you going to go buy another Lexus or Audi and put your money where your mouth is?

Or drive a Tesla with one hand and bitch about them incessantly with the other?

Actually I just went shopping with an uncle of mine for a new car for him and his wife. They've narrowed it down to the Audi Q5 and the Lexus RX funny enough. Model X was too bulky for the interior passenger space it offers and from what I've heard from one of our family friends who has an X, still some finicky issues with doors.

And not that it's particularly relevant to the OP but since you asked, I currently own and regularly use 3 cars and the M3 will be my fourth. So I may b*tch as you so eloquently put it in one hand, but there's only a 1/4 chance I'll be driving a Tesla when I do it.

I find the variety of fanboyism that you exhibit destructive to the Tesla brand. Good friends tell each other when they go astray, good customers use whatever means necessary to get their warrantied product fixed, and good companies are wise to go above and beyond to do right by their customers quickly ESPECIALLY when there are the shorts and competitors cheering for their demise and failure.