Stalk or no stalk argument [not] settled

First, we should analyze the matter without considering that the brand Tesla is making these changes and understand from a automotive/ engineering/ ergonomic point of view that whether indicator in steering has benefits compare to stalk. If it does, I'll accept that.

Obviously there is always a trade off in anything.

Having stalk as an independent module that it's functionality is not influenced by the functionality of another module (steering). Ergonomically, we apply force by our arms to move the steering, and we operate the stalk by our fingers (not thumb). This configuration only make sense if the steering is round. So stalks works with a round steering.

The no stalk configuration is ergonomically acceptable if there is a yoke. And only if the yoke doesn't need to turn not more halfway. In this case your thumbs are always where they suppose to be to function.

Another issue is the gear Selector.

First, I don't know what how you would select gear if you break your screen. Second, if you have a yoke configuration, the intent is to keep you hands on the yoke all the time. But that conflicts with selecting gear because to select gear you have to take you hand off the yoke and touch the screen.

Another issue is that selecting gear on screen mandates eye engagement (but not the stalk) which again defeats the purpose of buttons in yoke.

So the no stalk configuration only makes sense if the gear Selector is also on the yoke and the yoke only turns halfway.

 

[LiamPope]

Most motorcycles use a similar system. Turn signals, lights and horn operated by thumb switches. People seem to be able to figure them out pretty easily.

Last time I rode a bike I don't remember having to swivel the bars 720 degrees crossing arms . Might not be a good comparison.

Shifting gears with your feet though - could be a great idea! We can move the throttle pedal left for D, right for R. Hook your foot under the brake pedal and pull it up for P! Now they can save the software for the screen shift and save the backup buttons. Great innovation - will you tweet Elon or shall I?

 

[ucmndd]

Most motorcycles use a similar system. Turn signals, lights and horn operated by thumb switches. People seem to be able to figure them out pretty easily.

Have you ever seen a motorcycle do a hand over hand turn the way people do in cars basically every single time they drive them?

What an utterly worthless comparison.

Also worth noting it’s a physical switch on that motorcycle - not a useless haptic button you have to blindly stab for and hope you get right.

 

[gsmith123]

Have you ever seen a motorcycle do a hand over hand turn the way people do in cars basically every single time they drive them?

You don't signal when doing a bar spin?

 

[LiamPope]

I think you'd get quite different results with this poll in US vs. Europe.

 

[LiamPope]

You don't signal when doing a bar spin?

I tried to do a bar spin on a Honda Goldwing. Didn't go as well as that.

 

[lascavarian]

This is pretty simple. The best part is no part.

Just open the window and extend arm vertical for right turn or full horizontal extension for left turn. Adjust for RHD or LHD.

This is first principles thinking. If we could just figure out a way to hand-signal braking....

 

[EvilNuff]

...
The no stalk configuration is ergonomically acceptable if there is a yoke. And only if the yoke doesn't need to turn not more halfway. In this case your thumbs are always where they suppose to be to function.
...

Huh? What the hell are you talking about? You literally said the inferior configuration is ergonomically acceptable if the car uses the inferior steering mechanism. No, just no to literally everything you said. No no no no and no.

 

[emiliorescigno]

This thread is comedy gold.

 

[Adam3]

Yoke steering wheels are for fan bois who also think it’s “innovation” to take stalks out when all it’s cost cutting while selling to you at the same of higher price…..

Same people who claimed Ultrasonic sensors aren’t needed and “vision” was the future

They need variable ratio steering before yoke makes sense. Lexus yoke gets good reviews becaue of this. Tesla does not have variable ratio which is why they added round wheel back to S/X.

 

[mborkow]

Most motorcycles use a similar system. Turn signals, lights and horn operated by thumb switches. People seem to be able to figure them out pretty easily.

How many cycles have you seen with a steering wheel?

 

[Eno Deb]

This is pretty simple. The best part is no part.

Just open the window and extend arm vertical for right turn or full horizontal extension for left turn. Adjust for RHD or LHD.

This is first principles thinking. If we could just figure out a way to hand-signal braking....

Then remove the window so you don't need a button to open it.

 

[Eno Deb]

Huh? What the hell are you talking about? You literally said the inferior configuration is ergonomically acceptable if the car uses the inferior steering mechanism. No, just no to literally everything you said. No no no no and no.

I suspect using stalks with a yoke is much more cumbersome than with a wheel, since a yoke doesn't guide your hand to where the stalks are when the yoke isn't in its horizontal position. Hence my theory above that the yoke was the original reason why they removed the stalks (and just didn't put them back when moving back to a wheel).

 

[tlr1000]

Most motorcycles use a similar system. Turn signals, lights and horn operated by thumb switches. People seem to be able to figure them out pretty easily.

Most motorcycles also have front and rear brake controls separated where front brake is operated by the right hand and rear brake right foot. Then transmission selection is left foot. People that ride motorcycles adapt to this but I wouldn't want to replicate these controls on a car. Apples and oranges.

 

[one2many]

But what about us old folks, took me years to not
ride the brake on the three. And now I need a chip implant
to drive the car.. Oh well overall it may be an improvement
I just hope its the 4 version.
Still can not do a burnout.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

There are a surprising number of YouTubers driving Highlands around the world already, but Bjorn's test "ride" is actually pretty interesting because he is being chauffeured around by Tesla's highest ranking stalkless driving expert.

Bjorn's amazement is palpable as he witnesses the expert driver's "Ninja" signaling skills:

But the Ninja is no match for Elon's maniacal function-hiding expertise, and the video eventually ends with neither one of them ever managing to find the gear selector.

Bottom line: If you end up behind one of these cars at the airport car rental lot, don't.

 

[fasteddie7]

Don't know if this will help anyone looking to see it in practice to help visualize how they would use it.

 

[Macb00kemdanno]

But the Ninja is no match for Elon's maniacal function-hiding expertise, and the video eventually ends with neither one of them ever managing to find the gear selector.

I only know where it is because of a Teslarati article. It’s in the dumbest spot imaginable — above your head.

 

[hooty]

If the current percentages are anything to go by, Tesla's gonna cop a big income hit

 

[lascavarian]

Then remove the window so you don't need a button to open it.

Exactly! And think of the weight savings too.

 

[whitex]

Yes, Elon has clearly explained his rationale:

View attachment 970619

I guess that means pretty much all Tesla AP input it error, since Tesla requires user input, which is “almost all error”, to override AP input.