Stalk or no stalk argument [not] settled

First, we should analyze the matter without considering that the brand Tesla is making these changes and understand from a automotive/ engineering/ ergonomic point of view that whether indicator in steering has benefits compare to stalk. If it does, I'll accept that.

Obviously there is always a trade off in anything.

Having stalk as an independent module that it's functionality is not influenced by the functionality of another module (steering). Ergonomically, we apply force by our arms to move the steering, and we operate the stalk by our fingers (not thumb). This configuration only make sense if the steering is round. So stalks works with a round steering.

The no stalk configuration is ergonomically acceptable if there is a yoke. And only if the yoke doesn't need to turn not more halfway. In this case your thumbs are always where they suppose to be to function.

Another issue is the gear Selector.

First, I don't know what how you would select gear if you break your screen. Second, if you have a yoke configuration, the intent is to keep you hands on the yoke all the time. But that conflicts with selecting gear because to select gear you have to take you hand off the yoke and touch the screen.

Another issue is that selecting gear on screen mandates eye engagement (but not the stalk) which again defeats the purpose of buttons in yoke.

So the no stalk configuration only makes sense if the gear Selector is also on the yoke and the yoke only turns halfway.

 

[whitex]

Auxiliary stalks are already popping up in the accessories market place.
And, that is how the car comes - if you do no like it, do not buy. Tell Teslas. Long arguments are useless.
They brought the round wheel option back on X/S due to complaints. The stalks I do not think will return even as an option.
There is a long history of car companies inflicting new technology onto consumers. I.e. BMW original iDrive - shitstorm - now so banal and parsimonious.

The made rounded yoke option available, not the original steering wheel. To bring back the stalked wheel will require Elon to admit he was wrong, so an impossibly hard pill to swallow. But you are right, best way to vote is with your wallet. After buying 4 Model S'es, yoke came, I never bought another one. The yoke has costed Tesla at least 2 Model S/X sales just from me and my wife (we went from all Tesla garage to all-VW garage). Will we go back? Perhaps, depending on what Tesla is offering at the time we are ready for next cars. Also, if Elon achieves Level 5 FSD with Tesla taking full liability for all caused accidents, we will push up the new car decision (yoke will no longer be an issue, as no steering will be required).

 

[3sr+buyer]

Most motorcycles use a similar system. Turn signals, lights and horn operated by thumb switches. People seem to be able to figure them out pretty easily.

However, motorcycle handlebars do not get turned as much as car steering wheels in normal driving.

 

[Tam]

People seem to be able to figure them out pretty easily.

They are physical switches and the muscle memory would figure out exactly what the thumb/fingers are at and for what without the need to take the eyes off the road to figure them out.

 

[DaveG_NJ]

The closest analog is trying to change the radio volume (or the Voice Assist) while the wheel is turned (perhaps when parked or stopped on a curved road). Is the wheel turned 180º, 270º, just 90º? Forget about when the wheel is turning. Taking the indicators off the stationary stalk is just silly.

 

[Mr.S3XY]

In terms of how one can tell which gear you would be if your screen breaks, since the new Model 3 gear selection is based off of the current Model S/X refresh design there are haptic buttons for the backup gear system.

In the screenshots below, you will see for the New Model 3, the backup gear selector PRND and emergency lights will be near the front dome light area, whereas the Model S/X is located down near the wireless charging pad. I don't know why Tesla opted to make it different between the 2 vehicles. Perhaps maybe this was to prevent accidental touching if you rub against the wireless charging pad which wouldn't be ideal. Of course even in the Model S/X, to prevent accidental touching, you do have to long press on the buttons to account for that function to work which is a good safety feature to have.

New Model 3 backup gear selector near the dome lights.
View attachment 970638




Refreshed Model S/X backup Gear selector near wireless charging pad
View attachment 970642

Those seem to have been refreshed right out of the 2023 model S.

 

[ChooseFreedom]

Would adding paddle shifters be a compromise? Many cars have them now. So instead of individual gear changing, Tesla paddles would change PRND.
And they can rotate with the wheel/yoke, not diminishing aesthetic. Accessible, yet out of the way.
Easy to program to only work <5mph or so.


I've seen several concept cars lately that are showing an FSD-like setup, drive-by-wire, that has the steering wheel/yoke retreat into the dash. Stalks just get in the way for that. So it's not just Tesla who's thinking about it. Tesla is just bold enough to be the first to put it into production.
You better believe other manufacturers are keeping a close eye on how it goes. They get to have free feedback from forums like this to learn from before they even introduce their own versions.
Tesla has never shied away from taking risks trying new things, and being the guinea pig.

 

[zoomer0056]

Would adding paddle shifters be a compromise? Many cars have them now. So instead of individual gear changing, Tesla paddles would change PRND.
And they can rotate with the wheel/yoke, not diminishing aesthetic. Accessible, yet out of the way.
Easy to program to only work <5mph or so.


I've seen several concept cars lately that are showing an FSD-like setup, drive-by-wire, that has the steering wheel/yoke retreat into the dash. Stalks just get in the way for that. So it's not just Tesla who's thinking about it. Tesla is just bold enough to be the first to put it into production.
You better believe other manufacturers are keeping a close eye on how it goes. They get to have free feedback from forums like this to learn from before they even introduce their own versions.
Tesla has never shied away from taking risks trying new things, and being the guinea pig.

Get a Sexy Knob.

 

[ChooseFreedom]

Get a Sexy Knob.

Hey, we keep it clean on this site.

 

[strider]

Most motorcycles use a similar system. Turn signals, lights and horn operated by thumb switches. People seem to be able to figure them out pretty easily.

A bit late to this but you are categorically wrong. You never take your hands off the bars on a motorcycle. You often reposition your hands in a car.

If you look at a F1 race car, its all on the wheel.
I guess in a few hours of driving, it will all work out.
Deal buster, hardly.
Never mind.

In an F1 car you never move your hands. The wheel never turns more than 90 degrees. I have been driving without stalks for 2 years now (MXP) and I still hate it. The yoke was terrible too but I swapped to a Hannshow wheel 9 weeks into ownership. That helped and I have adapted to the gear selection but the turn signals are still garbage.

It would be interesting which stalk you are talking about. I have not seen a shifter stalk
in many, many years. At least we dont have the round button, spin. push.
I wonder if anyone on this 5 page thread has really driven one.

Uh, every model of Mercedes has a shifter stalk, including their EVs. I am content with my MXP for now but will definitely be looking at other options (Lotus Eletre and MB EQS at the top of my list currently) when it is time to change.

As I said above, I am 2 years into stalkless driving and it still bugs me. This change was purely for cost reasons and delusions of FSD. But this is classic Tesla. They removed the dedicated rain sensor and it took them years before the automatic wipers worked correctly. They removed USS and the parking sensors still do not work properly nor do the MX doors open properly. They removed the stalks but it will be many years before FSD works. Frankly I was shocked that they brought the wheel back for the S/X so maybe they aren't immune to feedback.

 

[flai54]

Those seem to have been refreshed right out of the 2023 model S.

Did some research and no it is not a 2023 addition. They have had it on the Model S since 2021 when the yoke steering wheel was implemented as the default steering wheel option. The difference now is that the steering wheel option is not the yoke steering wheel but rather the stoke wheel.

Refreshed 2021 Tesla Model S: How Much Has Changed?

With more and more automakers releasing plans for their own electric luxury sedans, it is now more important than ever for Tesla to keep its cars fresh.

insideevs.com

SMART SHIFT​

The new yoke has been a topic of controversy for more reasons than one. Aside from it missing a top-and-bottom, Tesla has done away with the stalks. As such, the Model S will figure out which gear you need to be in via its camera system and switch to it. For those that want to be able to shift themselves, there will be an option to disable the feature and change gears yourself via the center console.

 

[one2many]

Uh, every model of Mercedes has a shifter stalk, including their EVs. I am content with my MXP for now but will definitely be looking at other options (Lotus Eletre and MB EQS at the top of my list currently) when it is time to change.

As I said above, I am 2 years into stalkless driving and it still bugs me.

Great feedback, and I am sure it will work itself out.

 

[brkaus]

They removed the dedicated rain sensor and it took them years before the automatic wipers worked correctly

"Almost" correctly

 

[BigNick]

I only know where it is because of a Teslarati article. It’s in the dumbest spot imaginable — above your head.

That's where the garage door opener buttons should be.

 

[voldar]

I will only say this : long time habits are hard to overcome. I like the fact that the new highland has the turn signals and the whippers on the steering wheel. I have mixed feelings on the shifter stalk. That's why I bought the M3LR in June and didn't wait for the highland in October. I wish there was a paddle of some kind for the shifter and not to be forced to move my whole body to change gears. Or make the tablet swivel so that I can reach it with my fingers from a normal sitting on the driver's seat.

 

[father_of_6]

"I'm settling this argument by starting it", LOL.

No stalks is a deal breaker for me. Sad that my Model 3 will be my last Tesla.

 

[tivoboy]

"I'm settling this argument by starting it", LOL.

No stalks is a deal breaker for me. Sad that my Model 3 will be my last Tesla.

Give it time, the YOKE was going to be all that and a bag of chips, and now getting a full WHEEL is the default on S and X, and YOKE is an ”upgrade” for $1000.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

No stalks is stupid and a step back. For many many reasons.
Tesla will revert < 1 year or when NHTSA makes them.
Calling it now.

 

[stopcrazypp]

No stalks is stupid and a step back. For many many reasons.
Tesla will revert < 1 year or when NHTSA makes them.
Calling it now.

NHTSA won't make them because stalks are not required to meet standards. In fact, NHTSA would have shut them down already with the Model S/X if it was an issue. As others pointed out, Ferrari had long been using turn signal buttons and NHTSA did not give them trouble either.

 

[father_of_6]

it took them years before the automatic wipers worked correctly

You must live in the future.

 

[father_of_6]

Give it time, the YOKE was going to be all that and a bag of chips, and now getting a full WHEEL is the default on S and X, and YOKE is an ”upgrade” for $1000.

The problem is - they backpedalled on the yoke, but the stalks were already removed from the S/X and they haven't backpedalled... they're pushing it to the 3/Y. I take this to mean that they consider them acceptable or even better than stalks.