TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Starting to lose faith

Discussion in 'Canada' started by Dutchie, Jan 20, 2017.

  1. Dutchie

    Dutchie Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2013
    Messages:
    554
    Location:
    Canada
    i am trying my utmost saving for a Model X but I am starting to loose faith in Elon's enterprise. The cars are supposed to get cheaper as the batteries are becoming cheaper they say. The Model X 90D base - which was just a few months ago priced at $126,100 - is now gone up to $135.100!
    If I add a couple of options and the taxes in BC I now come to a price over $200K and that is not even for the performance version. This is getting redicicilous. I am asking myself if that kind of money is really worth it.

    The most expensive part is the battery pack. They say that batteries are getting cheaper and more energy dense. If so, why is Tesla increasing its price all the time. When will we see a reduction in price?

    My next car would be electric. I would even part with quite a sum off money for it considering the technology etc. Other than Tesla there are no real alternatives but $200k for a Model X car...

    I am starting to have hard time believing Elon saying that he will sell a Model 3 for USD 35000 and still make a profit.
    Perhaps this enterprise of his does not work out how it suppose to be...
     
    • Disagree x 5
    • Like x 1
  2. Festerfeet

    Festerfeet Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2015
    Messages:
    184
    Location:
    Chengdu, Sichuan,China
    I think you may have to resign yourself to the fact that Elon does not yet have control of currency fluctuations and import taxation...yet.

    I know that there have been some changes to the base package which also may have contributed but is it possible that that part of the increased cost may actually be getting you more/better car.

    Maybe when we have Emperor Musk of Mars everything will be better
     
    • Funny x 4
  3. hingisfan

    hingisfan hingisfan_Mark_V

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2013
    Messages:
    978
    Location:
    Kingston, Ontario
    For the 32km of EPA rated range, the X75D is probably the better value. Nice speed bump on the 90D as well though. I agree with you though, I had a deposit on an X for almost 2 years, then realized I could never justify that kind of money on a vehicle, and bought a CPO S60 instead. I have since test driven the X a few times, and while I like it more than the S (except for exterior looks), I know for my level of wealth I made the right decision. I will be buying a Model Y for sure though, if it is only 10 or 15% more than the 3.
     
    • Like x 4
  4. dchuck

    dchuck Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2017
    Messages:
    35
    Location:
    Edmonton, AB
    Dutchie i hate to break it to you but these cars will NEVER get cheaper. As it is in the ICE world so is it in the Tesla world. Each year they add more stuff, add more power, fancy infotainment systems and each iteration is more expensive than the last. In the last couple of months Tesla added AP2.0 hardware which probably costs them $2000-$5000 in hardware alone.

    As to the batteries well... when it was released the Model X had a 60kw option, then when the 100kw pack came out the base became a 75kw. Eventually they will release a 120kw battery and drop the 75kw one. The batteries may get cheaper but the packs are getting larger which eats up any savings.

    The way i see it you have 3 options. Bite the bullet and just buy a Model X today, Buy a used Tesla (like Hingisfan), Buy a cheaper model when it comes out (for Me the Model 3, for you maybe the Model Y) The only good news on the horizon is the exchange rate might go in your favor.

    This is true everywhere. Your telling me an iPhone 7 ($899) costs 2x more to make than the original iPhone ($399) No, if anything it should be a lot cheaper since manufacturing costs have dropped in the 10 years since the original iPhone was released. But it isn't the same phone and you cannot compare them because it is a completely different product. 4x the storage, 1.5x larger screen, etc...

    Could Apple make a $200 iPhone 7? sure, but they wouldn't because there is no money in it, not when they can get people to buy the latest and greatest for $899.
     
    • Like x 3
  5. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    5,147
    Location:
    California
    Good thing there's a used car market that will continue to grow. I haven't bought a new, new car in...umm...25 years!? Gosh, has it been that long?? ...until Model 3. And the used Model 3 market will expand a lot quicker than the Model S or X market.
     
    • Like x 3
  6. Dj B

    Dj B Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2016
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    Nevada
    Just tighten up your faith and you should be fine!
     
    • Like x 1
  7. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2015
    Messages:
    2,509
    Location:
    SK
    • Love x 7
    • Like x 3
    • Informative x 1
  8. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    5,104
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    No one ever expected the Model X to get cheaper, at least not in the near term. That's the Model 3.
     
    • Like x 2
  9. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    5,147
    Location:
    California
    • Funny x 2
  10. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    Messages:
    3,357
    Location:
    Oregon
    Well maybe you need to wait until they start using 2170 cells from the Gigafactory. That should decrease the non-North American part count and significantly reduce the price of the car in Canada. (You can thank NAFTA for that.)
     
    • Like x 1
  11. Porfiry

    Porfiry Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2015
    Messages:
    90
    Location:
    AB/BC
    #11 Porfiry, Jan 21, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
    You cannot compare a carrier subsidized USD price ($399 USD) to an unlocked CAD price ($899 CAD).

    Contrary to your claim, Apple is actually very consistent in pricing. $649 USD has been the launch price of every base level unlocked iPhone, from the iPhone 4 onwards. (Prior models were only available at carrier subsidized prices)
     
    • Informative x 2
  12. Lon12

    Lon12 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2015
    Messages:
    394
    Location:
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    • Funny x 2
  13. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2015
    Messages:
    2,509
    Location:
    SK
    Another way to think about it, is if you can't find something, you've lost it. You haven't loost it.

    If you don't win, you've lost. You haven't loost.

    Therefore lose is one o.
     
    • Funny x 2
  14. Dutchie

    Dutchie Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2013
    Messages:
    554
    Location:
    Canada
    Yes I understand. But battery pack hasn't increased (I am still comparing the 90D to the 90D) and - if I am not mistaken - the new hardware features were already announced in October.
    Whatever happened to the mid-volume mid price car? It is now mid-volume high price car. The exchange rate has gotten a bit worse but not that much to account for the difference. The batteries suppose to get cheaper but it is nowhere to be seen with Tesla. With other manufacturers you see it more clearly (Nissan, BMW, Hyundai) they are getting larger batteries for about the same price.

    Further, why is it that if you question something about Tesla on this forum you get a "dislike". Why can't we be critical?

    Also, yes, I acknowledge I made a mistake with "loose" and "lose" sorry, I am not a native English speaker but that doesn't excuse me to be more careful. But to get four posts on that subject alone...
     
    • Like x 2
  15. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 918 Hybrid

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Messages:
    3,714
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Try a model S if the model X does not work for your budget :cool:
     
    • Like x 1
  16. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,932
    Location:
    United States
    Certified; Pre-Owned.
     
    • Like x 3
  17. Canuck

    Canuck Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    4,949
    Location:
    South Surrey, BC
    I bought my Model S new three years ago and I followed Tesla even before that. I never once heard that a Model S or X would get cheaper. In fact, I heard that by buying a Model S I was contributing to help the cheaper Model 3 become a reality. That was repeated a lot and it was even in correspondence to me from Tesla.

    Although batteries have and will continue to drop in price, with the giga factory, and we will lose the 6.1% import duty that the Japanese batteries, which make up a significant price of the vehicle, and cost us Canadian the duty on the entire vehicle since they don't meet the exemption under NAFTA (assuming NAFTA survives), I expected the battery cost savings to apply to the Model 3 only. When it comes to the S and X, I think any cost savings will go to improvements to the vehicles and/or to Tesla's profits.

    It's gotten a whole lot worse. When I bought my car three years ago we were near par. When you buy a Tesla today you are not buying based on today's currency market. Tesla does the adjustments every 4 to 6 months. So while you think the currency exchange does not account for the difference, it really does, for the most part. I ordered my 85S with tech package, pano, leather, cold weather and dual chargers for just over $100k Can in Dec 2013 (plus $15k tax since PST goes from 7 to 10% for luxury vehicle tax, and GST of 5%) . I can't configure the same car today but if my $100k Can was worth the same now in US funds as it was then, I could build something even better with those funds, especially since today's 75 batteries are nearly the same range as my older 85.

    Our exchange rate accounts for our hardship. But there's hope: Trump's in office. Obama worked miracles with the American economy compared to what he inherited which account for the strong US dollar. If Trump cuts taxes on the wealthy, and cuts regulations on financial institutions, as he promised, we can have a repeat of the Bush years, and our dollar will go back up over par... (which I say tongue-in-cheek, of course -- then again, at least there's a silver lining here.)
     
    • Like x 3
  18. dchuck

    dchuck Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2017
    Messages:
    35
    Location:
    Edmonton, AB
    Porfry - I'll admit i made a mistake by using the Canadian apple store ($899) and assumed that using Google.ca would give me the Canadian price of the original iPhone. I didn't look any farther than the box google provided at the top of the screen, Pure laziness on my part. But by pointing out that error you have also re-enforced my point. Dutchie is asking why the model x isn't getting any cheaper. The Model X isn't getting cheaper for the same reason the iPhone isn't getting cheaper because nothing is getting any cheaper, manufacturers as a whole are adding more features instead of lowering prices as the manufacturing costs go down.

    Dutchie - Don't take multiple negative comments to heart, It is just the nature of forums. if you were posting on a general car forum instead of TMC criticisms of Tesla would be more prevalent and less frowned upon. As well meaning as people are some would rather spend their limited time pointing out issues with your grammar and spelling rather than making a contribution to the discussion. I prefer to do the later, shrug.

    I hope you didn't see my post as critical of your question. I don't know why your 90D has gone up in price, only Tesla does for sure. The cost to produce a battery has gone down in price (and will be even lower in the future) but other costs have gone up. The AP 2.0 hardware, The deployment of more Superchargers, Service Centers, and yes expanding manufacturing to produce the Model 3. The money for that has to come from somewhere and unfortunately some of it is coming directly from your pocket.

    If you need a car right now and still want a Tesla, buy it used or a new one with a smaller battery pack, fewer options, etc... If you can wait, buy a Model 3 (or model Y) when they come out. The 3 and Y should be half the cost of their larger counterparts. If you believe that Tesla will save the world (like i do) take your savings and purchase some stock, then cross your fingers, and hope the stock doubles in price.
    That way you can buy whatever you want. :)
     
    • Like x 4
  19. xG35

    xG35 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Messages:
    117
    Location:
    Canada
    Model S and X were never meant to be affordable models. It might start off that way with our currency on par and they were just starting build the momentum.

    But it is almost certain these are their flagship models, no different than a S class or 7 series.

    Needless to say, like the usual comment. If you need to look at the price, you are not meant for it.
     
    • Like x 1
  20. rypalmer

    rypalmer Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2014
    Messages:
    552
    Location:
    Canada
    I'd expect a price decrease only when demand at this price level dries up, and when they are consistently profitable. AP2 aside, I'm glad I bought when I did :)
     
    • Like x 1

Share This Page