Still worth getting a Model 3 if Electricity costs more than Gas?

[Glamisduner]

I don't have space indoors to hang cloths to dry and outside is pretty dusty as we live is a demi rural area of san diego. I already don't have grass and have a dirt yard to help keep our water bill down (Also very costly in SD but that's another topic). Someday I would like to have rubber mulch yard but I can't afford that, so dirt and weeds it is for now.

As for San Diego not needing AC that's not really true either depending where you love. By us durring the worst days in the summer it can be like 95+ degrees inside and 110+ outside. Defiantly need AC to have any kind of comfort.

Gotta figure out how I can add more panels to get the system up to 8kw (maybe) and still afford the down payment for the model 3.

 

[Daniel in SD]

As for San Diego not needing AC that's not really true either depending where you love. By us durring the worst days in the summer it can be like 95+ degrees inside and 110+ outside. Defiantly need AC to have any kind of comfort.

I was referring to coastal San Diego! I agree Escondido would be pretty miserable without AC.
I lived several years in college without AC or heat. I was tougher back then. haha. Just got solar and AC installed which I justified by getting a heat pump to replace an old inefficient furnace

 

[Glamisduner]

I was referring to coastal San Diego! I agree Escondido would be pretty miserable without AC.
I lived several years in college without AC or heat. I was tougher back then. haha. Just got solar and AC installed which I justified by getting a heat pump to replace an old inefficient furnace

For a heatpump water heater to work the room it is in needs to be heated correct? My water heater is in the garage so I'm not sure how this would work? In other words, would it even help in the winter?

 

[SageBrush]

For a heatpump water heater to work the room it is in needs to be heated correct? My water heater is in the garage so I'm not sure how this would work? In other words, would it even help in the winter?

Less than in the summer, but still effective in your climate

 

[Canuck]

Owning an EV is not about the cost of gas! It's about eliminating the use of gas all together so that our kids and their kids will have clean air to breath long after we are dead.

I only wish we were leaving for our kids "clear air to breath long after we are dead." I've been on this earth 52 years and the last two years have been down right scary as to the air we had to breath from the forest fires the likes of which we have never seen before.

To me, it's not about the price of gas, and I'm not so naive to believe that me having two EVs is making any change in the environment, but I do have my legacy. In fact, as an atheist I believe all I have is my legacy. And so when my kids, and future generations look back on me, it will be said that I had two EVs when few had one. So at least I made an effort. Plus, when I paid too much for my Model S I told my kids I was spending their inheritance for their own good!

Living 2 miles from work and driving an Escalade is greener than living 100 miles from work and driving an EV.

Not if the guy who does that long commute is an EV enthusiast who, while on that commute, and when telling others about it, gets others with long commutes out of their ICEs and into EVs. Then I'd argue the longer commute guy is "greener". Plus, he get points for the better legacy.

 

[Shock-On-T]

Here in San Diego, residential, single family home. It looks like the cost of electricity will cost more than my gas car which currently gets 34mpg average citi / highway.

TOU plan for EV vehciles: https://www.sdge.com/sites/default/files/regulatory/1-1-18 Schedule EV-TOU & EV-TOU-2 Total Rates Tables.pdf

Here is the tiered plan I have now (We have solar so typically we stay in tier 1 but osmetimes lapse into tier 2 when running the AC in the summer (we get triple digits).
https://www.sdge.com/sites/default/files/regulatory/1-1-18 Schedule DR Total Rates Table.pdf
We have a small 1400sqft house, but we do not have natural gas, so electric water heater etc.

Best calculator I found is this one which does not have the 3, so I used the S instead... Hopefully you guys have a better calculator that will account for the model 3.
Electric Car Calculator

if I switch to SDG&E TOU plan for electric vehicles owners in the summer the average cost of electricity will be $.38 per kWh. Comes out to
$2,273.91 for the model S with my commute and $2,117.65 for my current ford focus that gets 34 mpg with gas at $3.20 a gallon.

I almost think a hybrid might be a better idea in terms of costs but I don't really want a hybrid I don't think I want either full gas / diesel or all electric. I really wanted a plugin so I can use the carpool lane at work. But you can get the sticker if you get a volt, but then I have a battery and gas engine maintenance... I guess now I know why I see so many Pri-i's (plural for pruis?)...

Power costs, drop closer to $.23.5 in the winter so maybe I should average that in? cost would be $.29 then bring the numbers to $1,712.81 for the model 3 which means it would still be slightly cheaper than gas.

Also what are the real tesla maintenance costs? I heard they are quite high for an electric vehicle. The bolt is essentially no maintenance until 100k miles then a coolant flush. Telsa model 3 is like $500 per year?

Not trying to pinch pennies here, but part of the idea of paying more for an electric vehicle is that your supposed to save on fueling it to compensate for your higher monthly payment which does not sound like that will be the case for most owners in San Diego, unless they are not charging at a single family home.

ef

Here in San Diego, residential, single family home. It looks like the cost of electricity will cost more than my gas car which currently gets 34mpg average citi / highway.

TOU plan for EV vehciles: https://www.sdge.com/sites/default/files/regulatory/1-1-18 Schedule EV-TOU & EV-TOU-2 Total Rates Tables.pdf

Here is the tiered plan I have now (We have solar so typically we stay in tier 1 but osmetimes lapse into tier 2 when running the AC in the summer (we get triple digits).
https://www.sdge.com/sites/default/files/regulatory/1-1-18 Schedule DR Total Rates Table.pdf
We have a small 1400sqft house, but we do not have natural gas, so electric water heater etc.

Best calculator I found is this one which does not have the 3, so I used the S instead... Hopefully you guys have a better calculator that will account for the model 3.
https://www.befrugal.com/tools/electric-car-calculator/

if I switch to SDG&E TOU plan for electric vehicles owners in the summer the average cost of electricity will be $.38 per kWh. Comes out to
$2,273.91 for the model S with my commute and $2,117.65 for my current ford focus that gets 34 mpg with gas at $3.20 a gallon.

I almost think a hybrid might be a better idea in terms of costs but I don't really want a hybrid I don't think I want either full gas / diesel or all electric. I really wanted a plugin so I can use the carpool lane at work. But you can get the sticker if you get a volt, but then I have a battery and gas engine maintenance... I guess now I know why I see so many Pri-i's (plural for pruis?)...

Power costs, drop closer to $.23.5 in the winter so maybe I should average that in? cost would be $.29 then bring the numbers to $1,712.81 for the model 3 which means it would still be slightly cheaper than gas.

Also what are the real tesla maintenance costs? I heard they are quite high for an electric vehicle. The bolt is essentially no maintenance until 100k miles then a coolant flush. Telsa model 3 is like $500 per year?

Not trying to pinch pennies here, but part of the idea of paying more for an electric vehicle is that your supposed to save on fueling it to compensate for your higher monthly payment which does not sound like that will be the case for most owners in San Diego, unless they are not charging at a single family home.

Definitely.
I get free fuel from my employer and I bought a Model S.
Fuel cars suck.

 

[Daniel in SD]

For a heatpump water heater to work the room it is in needs to be heated correct? My water heater is in the garage so I'm not sure how this would work? In other words, would it even help in the winter?

It would keep your garage cool in the summer! Sadly it would also cool it in the winter. If you put it in a heated room it would use just as much energy as a resistive water heater (standard electric water heater). The energy has to come from somewhere. Heat pumps work by moving energy from a cold side to a hot side. In this case the cold side is your garage and the hot side is the water.
I've still got a natural gas water heater. When it breaks I'll consider a heat pump model.

 

[Jeff4155]

I work in the construction industry and almost all new houses that I work on in South Africa either install Solar/Gas or Heat pumps, with the price going down on these alternative methods of electricity and our not so trustworthy government supply, it has become the norm if you can afford it, new laws have also forced the change for instance any new house should have at least a certain amount of alternative method of power generation or heat generation. 10 years ago LED's were seen as something from outer space, these days you cant find incandescent light bulbs and LED's are the norm, so while Fuel cars are still the norm it's only a matter of time.

 

[McRat]

...
Not if the guy who does that long commute is an EV enthusiast who, while on that commute, and when telling others about it, gets others with long commutes out of their ICEs and into EVs. Then I'd argue the longer commute guy is "greener". Plus, he get points for the better legacy.

It's common disease we suffer from today. A lack of balance. We think a human life is worth a billion dollars. We think adding $10,000 worth of safety equipment to each car has no side effects. We think mandating sprinklers in homes at $15,000 a house, when there is a statistically insignificant benefit is a good use of a worker's family budget.

Sometimes the simple solution is the best. Ask Jerry "the idiot" Brown how his High Speed Rail is doing? Knowing it will have no measurable effect on the environment, he is willing to force thousands of people from their homes, and waste tens of billions of dollars on it. It has already created a crime wave, is behind schedule, and far, far over budget. And it will have virtually no benefit at all to >99% of Californians.

 

[Falkirk]

I realize this is the opposite issue from the thread title but did I do something wrong in my calculations because the different is unreal. I can't wait to get my new 3!

I do have a plan that for most of the day I get 4.9c per kWh. I also know my Mazda is killing me on gas right now!

 

[SpiceWare]

News from this morning - U.S. retail gasoline prices getting higher and higher

The average price for a gallon of gas is almost 40 cents higher than it was on this date in 2017.

 

[Sandiegodoug]

I think premium will eclipse 4 bucks in San Diego.

 

[ℬête Noire]

News from this morning - U.S. retail gasoline prices getting higher and higher

The biggest unexpected change for me in switching to an EV is the slightly euphoric serenity of passing gas stations. "Oh, I see they're up a few cents/gal a week?" I'm pretty sure, though I've not looked in a mirror to confirm, I then get a slight smirk on my face....I'm not proud of this.

 

[Zythryn]

I realize this is the opposite issue from the thread title but did I do something wrong in my calculations because the different is unreal. I can't wait to get my new 3!

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I do have a plan that for most of the day I get 4.9c per kWh. I also know my Mazda is killing me on gas right now!

No, I don’t believe you did anything wrong.
The OP is in a small group in the USA where electricity is more expensive than gasoline.
In the US gasoline is a lot cheaper than Canada and electricity tends to be hire, especially in California.
Where I am at in Minnesota, and because I have installed solar, my costs work out similar to yours.

If you use the average prices across the US for both electricity in gasoline, driving electric is cheaper than driving with gasoline.

 

[SageBrush]

If you put it in a heated room it would use just as much energy as a resistive water heater (standard electric water heater).

You have things mixed up here. If the heat pump (used as a heater) was in a COLD (not just cool) room, the COP would approach 1.0, just like a resistance heater. Heat pumps have an efficiency range that varies by model, but over ~ 290K they all do pretty well, and they shine in spring to fall in OP's locale where COP > 4.0 could be anticipated if the heating was timed to warm hours of the day.

I would not swap DWH heated by NG in CA for a heat pump, but a heat pump would be a substantial upgrade over a straight resistance heater.

 

[Need]

The biggest unexpected change for me in switching to an EV is the slightly euphoric serenity of passing gas stations. "Oh, I see they're up a few cents/gal a week?" I'm pretty sure, though I've not looked in a mirror to confirm, I then get a slight smirk on my face....I'm not proud of this.

There is a huge problem with not getting gas at the gas stations. Those are the only times I would buy a Powerball ticket if the jackpot got really big. So potentially I could be losing hundreds of millions of dollars!

 

[jtpassat]

the operating temperature range of a heat pump water heater is 40-90 degrees F. I have mine in the basement where it never goes down below 50.

For a heatpump water heater to work the room it is in needs to be heated correct? My water heater is in the garage so I'm not sure how this would work? In other words, would it even help in the winter?

 

[jtpassat]

I apologize if this has been said before but why not get solar panels - if your electric rate is so high then your ROI on panels should be short.

 

[Daniel in SD]

You have things mixed up here. If the heat pump (used as a heater) was in a COLD (not just cool) room, the COP would approach 1.0, just like a resistance heater. Heat pumps have an efficiency range that varies by model, but over ~ 290K they all do pretty well, and they shine in spring to fall in OP's locale where COP > 4.0 could be anticipated if the heating was timed to warm hours of the day.

I would not swap DWH heated by NG in CA for a heat pump, but a heat pump would be a substantial upgrade over a straight resistance heater.

I agree that you want the heat pump water in the warmest place you can find. You just don't want to put it in a room that you have to heat. If you put it in your living room, sure it would get a great COP but you would need to heat the living room more. Ideally you would move it into your living room in the summer as it would reduce the need to cool the room. Now that I think about it though what I said before about it equalling the efficiency of a resistance heater is only true if you're using a resistance heater to heat your living room. If you're using another heat pump then it's not so bad.

 

[SageBrush]

I agree that you want the heat pump water in the warmest place you can find. You just don't want to put it in a room that you have to heat. If you put it in your living room, sure it would get a great COP but you would need to heat the living room more. Ideally you would move it into your living room in the summer as it would reduce the need to cool the room. Now that I think about it though what I said before about it equalling the efficiency of a resistance heater is only true if you're using a resistance heater to heat your living room. If you're using another heat pump then it's not so bad.

Ahh .. now I am following you. It would be a poor idea to run a series of heat pumps.

People in the SE United states put DHW heat pumps inside the house because they get "free" cooling and dehumidication (a HUGE benefit) during their mostly too hot climate. They pay with noise.

I'm pretty sure Escondido should place the heat pump in the garage.

I've wondered before whether it makes sense to place the heat pump in a place that with vents and some pipes could have intake and outflow vary between inside and outside depending on season. Maybe in a home designed that way. The same could be said for the fridge ... which is also a heat pump. My rather crude calculations for a fridge in my overall winter climate suggested at least a 50% energy savings if it was paired with a heat sink and good insulation. About 0.5 kWh/day consumption for a 22 ft^3 fridge/freezer.

Regarding NG and money:
I pay $12 a month connection fee, and then per consumption. The utility pays 29 cents a therm (30 kWh) and charges me 65 cents, so about 2.2 cents a kWh. Appliances tend to run 80 - 90% efficient making the NG cost 2.44 - 2.75 cents a kWh although this does not take into account losses in the piping.

My PV amortized over time works out to ~ 2.5 cents a kWh, so with a heat pump the cost of fuel is way less than NG. ONE heat pump's cost that provided both air and water heating could pencil out if the NG service was stopped.

Not in the for-seeable future in the home I rent, but certainly something to think about in new homes that could save the NG connection charges and furnace/boiler acquisition and installation charges.