Strap a weight onto the steering wheel

[2101Guy]

No one is arguing the "liability" part of such an event, but the collateral damage, which could very well be another driver or an innocent pedestrian. You don't always hit an inanimate object in an accident.

A better example is guns. Gun owners are always liable for how their guns are used, but why did the ATF ban bump stocks in 2019? Precisely because it's a product that circumvents the legal restriction on owning automatic-firing weapons, just like the counterweight circumvents safety protocols. Sure, most gun violence doesn't involve bump stocks, but that shouldn't prevent outlawing such a device. The collateral damage (or the potential of it) is just too great to ignore its consequences. Similarly, you may be the GREATEST driver who ever owned a counterweight, but that's irrelevant. The device is DESIGNED to circumvent, not to enhance, safety.

Comparing a device that essentially allows a Tesla to do what GM does (Hands free active cruise control) today, to a device specifically designed to fire bullets faster to kill more people, is apples to watermelons. Also, one is absolutely illegal under law, the other is not illegal to purchase nor use. So yeah, poor example.

As it relates to liability...the driver of a Tesla with or without a counterweight is 100% fully responsible for control of the Tesla whether the car hits a inanimate object or a human. Again, the driver is 100% the responsible party. Same with persons who dont use a weight, but opt to instead, have no hands on the wheel and touch the volume button every 30 seconds (or whatever the current nag interval is)...that driver is always 100% responsible.

 

[Phlier]

Let me give you an example. I am a pilot and our aircraft have very sophisticated autopilot systems that put the Tesla AP to shame. But if the airplane crashes I am responsible since the Pilot In Command is ultimately responsible for the safe operation of the aircraft. If you are in the driver’s seat the same logic applies to you. Until we get to SAE level 4 you will have to be in the drivers seat.

Don’t attempt to defeat safety systems!

Yup.

I'm a pilot for a major US airline, and when we are operating in the terminal environment (think takeoff until mid climb out, then on the descent below 18,000 feet) we ARE REQUIRED to keep a hand on the yoke (steering wheel) at ALL TIMES when using the auto pilot.

And yeah, ATPMSD, I know you know the definition of terminal environment and yoke; those were added in there for everyone else.

 

[Ciaopec]

Yup.

I'm a pilot for a major US airline, and when we are operating in the terminal environment (think takeoff until mid climb out, then on the descent below 18,000 feet) we ARE REQUIRED to keep a hand on the yoke (steering wheel) at ALL TIMES when using the auto pilot.

And yeah, ATPMSD, I know you know the definition of terminal environment and yoke; those were added in there for everyone else.

I agree; well said. Been there, done that. And below 10,000 ft when things start getting busier no idle chatter except about the flight operation.
Too bad drivers don't take their time on the road more seriously as well. Too many distractions in that environment also.

 

[sleepydoc]

I agree; well said. Been there, done that. And below 10,000 ft when things start getting busier no idle chatter except about the flight operation.
Too bad drivers don't take their time on the road more seriously as well. Too many distractions in that environment also.

oh, come off it! I know what I can do and I'm not distracted at all when I'm backing out of a parking space in a busy parking lot with my kids in the back seat while talking on my cell phone! I wish you people would quit trying to run my life! /s

You should see the number of people in the V11 software threads who try to make the argument that even though it might require more interaction there's no 'proof' that it causes accidents and they don't feel like they're distracted so therefore it can't possibly be worse!

Distraction kills, people.

 

[RipVanFinkle]

The manufacturer does not have the right to sell the produce. Using a device that has been banned is using an illegal device.

This is more disinformation. If a company receives a cease and desist, it does not mean that magically everything which was sold prior is now deemed illegal. Often times, things are grandfathered in if purchased prior to the date the cease and desist. The people who are liable are is the seller. The buyer is protected. Now, if there’s a law that using the device falls under deems it illegal, then sure. But just because a company can’t manufacture if doesn’t automatically make people criminals.

 

[UncleCreepy]

I stand (sit, actually) corrected. Thanks for the info. Seems a bit of political overstepping, but whatev.

I see what you did there

 

[rjpjnk]

Is all this new camera based attention assessment only active while using FSD?
I only have regular AP and the camera above the rearview mirror doesn't appear to do anything in my car. Even if I cover it completely there is no alert message. It doesn't seem to care where my eyes are looking.

 

[t3sl4drvr]

Wouldn't it be great if Tesla would actually sense if my hands are on the steering wheel?

I always keep my hands on the wheel while driving and use autopilot most of the time. Unfortunately Teslas torque based "hands-on-wheel" sensor system is very inaccurate. Even when I give the steering wheel a shake regularly, sometimes Tesla just does not notice it until I steer strongly enough to disengage autopilot.

I would guess that many - if not the most - of the people adding a weight on their steering wheels do while still always planning to keep their hands on the wheel.

 

[Yelobird]

This is more disinformation. If a company receives a cease and desist, it does not mean that magically everything which was sold prior is now deemed illegal. Often times, things are grandfathered in if purchased prior to the date the cease and desist. The people who are liable are is the seller. The buyer is protected. Now, if there’s a law that using the device falls under deems it illegal, then sure. But just because a company can’t manufacture if doesn’t automatically make people criminals.

You are spot on. In fact the original manufacture of the first version wasn’t actually banned from selling it they were banned from advertising it specifically for this use. They to this day still sell it with a new name (as do dozens of others now) only they do not market it as a steering aid. Out of respect to the forum I will not provide links. Not hard to find nor hard to understand what it’s used for though lol.

 

[diplomat33]

This is more disinformation. If a company receives a cease and desist, it does not mean that magically everything which was sold prior is now deemed illegal. Often times, things are grandfathered in if purchased prior to the date the cease and desist. The people who are liable are is the seller. The buyer is protected. Now, if there’s a law that using the device falls under deems it illegal, then sure.

Stop twisting my words! I never said that all prior products before the cease and desist are illegal. The "autopilot buddy" product received a cease and desist. That is the product the company could not sell. I am talking about buying and using the "autopilot buddy" product, not products before it.

But just because a company can’t manufacture if doesn’t automatically make people criminals.

Not automatically. But if the company is not allowed to manufacture the product, then they are not allowed to sell the product. So if you get the product then it means your purchase was illegal. So yes, your purchase was illegal and that makes you a criminal.

 

[RipVanFinkle]

Stop twisting my words! I never said that all prior products before the cease and desist are illegal. The "autopilot buddy" product received a cease and desist. That is the product the company could not sell. I am talking about buying and using the "autopilot buddy" product, not products before it.



Not automatically. But if the company is not allowed to manufacture the product, then they are not allowed to sell the product. So if you get the product then it means your purchase was illegal. So yes, your purchase was illegal and that makes you a criminal.

Wow. You be you I guess.

 

[BBTX]

Several months ago AP kept putting me in time out with no warning and I was tempted to get something like this. Fortunately, Tesla fixed the bug so I’m not having issues any more.

I agree with the other posts - AP only nags you every 30 seconds or so; it’s not that big of a deal to tug on the steering wheel a couple times a minute.

Overall, I agree that drivers should be attentive, and these devices are a bad idea, and a wheel tug every ~30 seconds cruising down the highway is pretty simple if you're paying attention.

However, there are still situations when driving under AP where the nag system is unreasonable, annoying, and/or confusing.

For example: sometimes I'm engaging AP (NoA) as I'm entering a highway onramp, and in the space of well under 30 seconds from engagement, as it's merging and initially lane-changing into the highway, it somehow already jumps to the second stage of beeping at me about the wheel (which I tend to instinctively loosen my grip on when I know it's moving lanes and/or merging, to avoid accidentally disengaging).

This is unexpected and confusing, and it's right in the middle of a situation in which there's a lot more important things to focus on (double-checking mirrors, etc and ensuring the moves it's making are actually safe). Now I have to look at the screen to confirm the nature of the warning and process that new input at the worst possible time or risk a hard disengagement.

I haven't had a hard disengagement from it yet, but I still find the whole mechanism distracting and annoying, and it seems like a net negative for my safety in these situations, especially when it makes random, untimely additional demands of me while I'm at my busiest trying to monitor and manage it's behavior in the real world out the windows.

I often find myself talking at the car like a crazy person saying things like "I'm doing my job, why don't you leave me alone and do yours!"

 

[FastEddieB]

I mentioned upthread how little it took to periodically show our 2022 Tesla Model 3 that my hands were on the wheel.

Yesterday on a road trip I had Karen video one such event with her iPhone:

I don't know if this is typical, but that little L/R twitch is all it usually takes to dismiss the "hand on wheel" alert in our car.

 

[diplomat33]

I mentioned upthread how little it took to periodically show our 2022 Tesla Model 3 that my hands were on the wheel.

Yesterday on a road trip I had Karen video one such event with her iPhone:

I don't know if this is typical, but that little L/R twitch is all it usually takes to dismiss the "hand on wheel" alert in our car.

Thanks for sharing. Yes, it is typical. It is the same for me. I've learned to dismiss the nag with a very small "tug" that is barely noticeable. If you learn the technique, the nags are not a big deal at all IMO.

 

[sleepydoc]

I mentioned upthread how little it took to periodically show our 2022 Tesla Model 3 that my hands were on the wheel.

Yesterday on a road trip I had Karen video one such event with her iPhone:

I don't know if this is typical, but that little L/R twitch is all it usually takes to dismiss the "hand on wheel" alert in our car.

Ditto - that’s all I do as well. (Actually I only pull the wheel in one direction so it’s half the work you do!)

 

[sleepydoc]

For example: sometimes I'm engaging AP (NoA) as I'm entering a highway onramp, and in the space of well under 30 seconds from engagement, as it's merging and initially lane-changing into the highway, it somehow already jumps to the second stage of beeping at me about the wheel (which I tend to instinctively loosen my grip on when I know it's moving lanes and/or merging, to avoid accidentally disengaging).

This is unexpected and confusing, and it's right in the middle of a situation in which there's a lot more important things to focus on (double-checking mirrors, etc and ensuring the moves it's making are actually safe). Now I have to look at the screen to confirm the nature of the warning and process that new input at the worst possible time or risk a hard disengagement.

IME, if AP encounters a situation in which it is ‘unsure’ it will nag more often. For general driving it’s every 30 seconds, though.

I liken it to a parent with a toddler. Every so often they need to know that mom or dad is there and if something happens that makes them worried, they immediately look for reassurance.

 

[FastEddieB]

Ditto - that’s all I do as well. (Actually I only pull the wheel in one direction so it’s half the work you do!)

Maybe that's why I'm so tired today!

 

[SilverString]

Although I have never done it, I have heard that in my Model S a half full plastic water bottle wedged into the steering wheel spoke will allow hands free driving.

 

[Dewg]

Ditto - that’s all I do as well. (Actually I only pull the wheel in one direction so it’s half the work you do!)

I hold the wheel at 4 and 8, with fairly constant pressure pulling towards me, about the weight of my hands and arms. I don't get nagged much at all, perhaps once or twice during a drive. I will say that my hands get a little sweaty from time to time, so I take a break for each hand as needed.

My method may be annoying to some people, but I prefer not getting nagged at all.

 

[UCIBtheG]

A couple things I haven't seen mentioned in this thread (but certainly have in others that are similar). If you have concerns about the torque threshold of clearing the warning without breaking Autosteer, then use the thumbwheels to turn volume (or TACC speed) up and then back down a tick. It's considered input (and hands on the wheel) just the same. I think most owners know about this at this point, but perhaps it could help a newbie.

Regarding a steering wheel weight, nobody mentioned such a device becoming a projectile in a steering wheel airbag deployment. Maybe the thought of that would deter someone who otherwise thinks they're a good idea.