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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

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Am I correct that there were no release notes addressing both batterygate and chargegate?

You are correct. Tesla has never explicitly stated anything about the batterygate and chargegate. Only that they are "protecting and prolonging" the life of the batteries by better thermal management, blah, blah. So, since they have not accepted the existence of a problem, don't look for them to announce a fix for it.

No one knows what those "minor improvement" are. I suppose bug fixes and COA's are good candidates.

If Tesla did not explain fully and concisely what these updates did to our vehicles, and we have to rely upon third-party information, they have done us customers a grave disservice. This is truly shabby treatment.

Amen.
 
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You are correct. Tesla has never explicitly stated anything about the batterygate and chargegate. Only that they are "protecting and prolonging" the life of the batteries by better thermal management, blah, blah. So, since they have not accepted the existence of a problem, don't look for them to announce a fix for it.

No one knows what those "minor improvement" are. I suppose bug fixes and COA's are good candidates.



Amen.
its called CYA= cover your arse....If some cars are more prone to battery fires why punish all of us at the cost of a few??? this sounds very socialist to me. :eek:
With all their software and data and info on every car they must know which battery packs are culprits?? Just address those directly.
 
its called CYA= cover your arse....If some cars are more prone to battery fires why punish all of us at the cost of a few??? this sounds very socialist to me. :eek:
With all their software and data and info on every car they must know which battery packs are culprits?? Just address those directly.

Regarding the acronym, I did mean COA instead of CYA. If Tesla fixes bugs, it's their "part" they are covering, not ours ;)
 
I meant they are covering their arses with chargegate and battery gate. I think its sad some of us paid for the extra miles(60d to 75d) and some of those miles have been taken away: stolen: removed with this batterygate thing. I mean its sorta criminal in a wqay to take away something you paid extra for. If it was a free upgrade then i guess whatever...but the fact we paid 2k and then software can just remove some miles is just shady.
 
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They're exposing their arses if they're making fire recall changes and telling us they aren't. Deception greatly increases the risk to their rear ends, especially when they're deceiving government agencies.

All of us paid for the "extra miles" - 60 to 85 was almost $11,000 and the 85 battery is only 3-4 real kwh larger than a 75. It doesn't matter when we paid they took from all of us.
 
I meant they are covering their arses with chargegate and battery gate. I think its sad some of us paid for the extra miles(60d to 75d) and some of those miles have been taken away: stolen: removed with this batterygate thing. I mean its sorta criminal in a wqay to take away something you paid extra for. If it was a free upgrade then i guess whatever...but the fact we paid 2k and then software can just remove some miles is just shady.

You have not been capped, correct?
 
The Intel processor mitigation for the different security design flaws also decrease performance; before people discovered the security exploits there was also no "visible defect". That defect became apparent years later, and people were running with the vulnerability exploitable for years "without issues".

Yet I have yet to see anyone demand either a faster processor or their money back because of Spectre or Meltdown.

I have seen customers demand a higher performing SKU due to the lost performance. No idea what they ended up working out with Intel.
Big difference between suing Intel and suing Tesla. Intel's a pretty old bull in that rodeo.
 
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Can confirm. Supercharging times more than doubled. I can't charge over 70kW any more and it tapers sooner - 2 hours is probably being optimistic. My car sounds like a harrier jet landing too, other tesla owners have told me to get my car serviced for the noise on many occasions.
We went to a Cowboy's game and had to do the slow drive through pedestrian traffic to get to our lot. Every head turned to stare at the screaming electric banshee easing down the street. Is this the new pedestrian friendly sound our cars are supposed to make?
After 28.3 (or is it 23.8?) it seemed to get a lot better, but with temps pushing 100 today it was spooling up quite a bit again.

I think "Harrier jet landing" is a splendid way to describe it.
 
We went to a Cowboy's game and had to do the slow drive through pedestrian traffic to get to our lot. Every head turned to stare at the screaming electric banshee easing down the street. Is this the new pedestrian friendly sound our cars are supposed to make?
After 28.3 (or is it 23.8?) it seemed to get a lot better, but with temps pushing 100 today it was spooling up quite a bit again.

I think "Harrier jet landing" is a splendid way to describe it.
Hilarious but right on point. I honestly am not a fan of software updates. Especially when you have a un-fundamentally broke company doing them. From my experience guess who has had the most issues after current updates? Owners who’s warranties have expired. Hmm
 
Some of the speculation here is a bit outrageous... and ya'll have been blowing up my PMs on this for weeks.

Affected packs with the range loss/charge cap/etc are not any more likely to explode or otherwise suffer another kind of catastrophic failure than any other pack. The capacity cap does "fix" the problem with these packs, even if it's not the best solution. While technically effective, it's just not the fix with the least outwardly noticed effect as it wasn't intended as a fix for this particular issue.

As I said previously... if you have an 85 or 70, you should update your firmware. Given how terrible the v9 UI is, I wouldn't make such a suggestion if it were not important... so read into that as much as you like.

Again, sorry for being vague... but it's the best I can do. I really should just be staying out of this entirely.
Did Tesla finally wisen up and start paying you not to expose all their shady tactics? Jason... they know you know more about their own cars than all of them put together do. I would if I was them and don’t doubt that they did. What did you ever sell that yellow beast for? Also explain how Tesla can still if not even more so keep you from doing services to your own car? This *sugar* drives me crazy and now they are pushing their updates into your car and have changed their warranties to include “not updating the latest updates will void your warranty .” Tesla is coming to an end and than we can actually make them better ourselves lol. Swap out batteries, motors etc. We need people like you on our side not theirs and you know how that is since you were once in our shoes battling Tesla and their antics.
 
That poster seems to be in the same category of the "drive by shooter" posting where the poster show ups with false and misleading messages and once challenged to back up their false and misleading messages they disappear. When have had our fair share of those in this thread unfortunately.

Can you be more clear? Am I the drive by shooter or are you referencing the guy I shoot at?
 
Can you be more clear? Am I the drive by shooter or are you referencing the guy I shoot at?

It was not meant at you at all. I was talking about the other poster you were addressing.

It refers to the posters who make claims and then hide when challenged. Does it make sense?

On Edit: That other poster posted few incoherent messages here and never came back.
 
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One could argue that the vehicle is no longer as advertised. The RWD 2013 model S was advertised with somewhere in the neighborhood of 260 miles range. When new, my car charged to 257 miles at a 100% charge. After 6+ years, my car had a range of 253 miles at a 100% charge one day before Tesla forced the update on my car, which now results in a range of 223 miles at a 100% charge. So in 1 day the range of the vehicle went from a range substantially equal to the EPA advertised range to a range out of compliance with the EPA advertised range. So the vehicle is no longer as advertised.

Hi, I find the numbers interesting.

Being Elctronics Engineer for many decades and from reading Li-Ion papers for years, my brain rules out, that a degradation of 1,56% over six years of use is possible. I think the BMS has failed to correctly identify/estimate/measure the degradation. Only the new Jeff Dahn & Dalhouisie Team NMC cells degrade that little A Wide Range of Testing Results on an Excellent Lithium-Ion Cell Chemistry to be used as Benchmarks for New Battery Technologies

Own experience with Li-Ion (NMC though) is:
A: Even with the most perfect treatment of Li-Ion, internal resistance grows over time, so with same remaning capacity, range should be shorter, just because of bigger heat loss.
B: At work we have Lenovo Laptops, that have been powered on everyday, but at only 55% StateofCharge. The BMS thinks they did not degrade at all over the last 3 years, but the battery life from 55% and down is terrible and the battery goes warm, so has high internal resistance
C: I had to dismantle my 8 year old Nokia Windows Phone last week and lift the cell voltage from 2,45V to 3,22V before battery protection allowed it to charge, because it had been powered off for some months and my son wanted it for Alarm Clock. Battery has same capacity as last spring (it only charge to 55% only as well:)) but the self discharge, when powered off, is approx 5% per 2 days.

All above changes reduces 'range' So I propose that the 253 miles of range was dead wrong (as Tesloop and Tesla Bjørn has experienced with cars dying with miles still on the gauge).

I cannot know whether your capacity should be 223 miles or higher, that depends on whether your batteri has been top-capped.

If you were hit by both 'more correct estimate' and capping, then Tesla's timing is bad. If they first told us that the fantastic low degradation we (*) have experienced was partly due to a bad BMS algorithm and that a new version of SW now report the correct range, so we no longer risk stranding a cold vinter night on a dark highway, then we may have accepted that as necessary. (And Tesla will not need to replace batteries, which they had to for both Tesloop and Bjørn)

A later message to those capped, that the capping is a temporary safety measure, untill Tesla figures out how to handle the assumed safety issue, would as well be less bad for Tesla trustworthieness, than this thread.

(*) Dec 2015 S 70D, BMS Reported range when new: 364 km, now 351 km a dgeradation of around 3,5%. Never the less I tell ABetterRoutePlanner that my battery has degraded 7% and my car uses 205 Wh/km at 110 km/h, which makes me hit the SUC with 17%, when ABRP calculted 18%)
 
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